Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak

DaveW wrote:

Fred Ellis wrote:
DevilsPGD wrote:
In message Fred Ellis
wrote:

You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.
And if the driver presents valid identification and everyone else
refuses, then what?

--

You must not have gone through one of these Border Patrol check points
before. All you do is drive up to the Border Patrol officer, lower your
window and he asks if you are a U.S. citizen. You answer yes while he
looks inside your vehicle to see if there are any other passengers.
Then you tell the officer to have a nice day, raise your window and you
drive on.

If you have passengers in the vehicle, the officer asks them the same
question and they would of course reply yes. Of course this works only
if you and your passengers are of Anglo-Saxon descent and speak english
with an American accent. Other wise the officer might detain you for
further identification and/or questioning.

In all the times I have gone through these highway check points I have
never been ask to show identification or proof of citizenship.


Fred Ellis

Unless of course, they decide to pull you over. It happened to me at
Blaine, Washington, in July, 1998. I was alone, on vacation, having gone
to BC to ride the Royal Hudson out of North Vancouver.

I was pulled over and my car was searched. Note that I am white, blue
eyed and blond, speak with a non-regional US accent (born and raised in
California), and had a car mostly full of dirty clothes by that point of
the trip.

This was after waiting over an hour in line at the checkpoint, and I was
quite frankly ****ed, so I didn't bother to watch them search the car,
and waited inside the building. I had to use the restroom in the worst
way by that time anyway. Well, it turns out that they looked into my
engine compartment and didn't close my hood properly. About 4 miles into
the US, my hood came up at about 65mph! I no longer had to use the
restroom!

I pulled over, and closed the hood and inspected the damage from the
hood crashing into the windshield wipers. I pulled into the next rest
area and called my insurance man in Los Angeles. He said there was no
point in going back as they would probably deny everything. So, I
continued my trip. It took about 10 minutes to get the hood opened,
using a screwdriver and a lot of messing around, so I made it my habit
to check the oil first thing in the morning each day after that. The
rest of the trip, including a visit to the Golden Spike site in Utah,
went well, but I was stuck for the deductible on my comprehensive
insurance when the repairs were done.

Note that upon entering Canada, I was asked:

1. Are you a US citizen?
2. Are you the owner of the car.
3. Any tobacco, alcohol or firearms?

and wished on my way.

You can (or could until very recently) enter Mexico without hardly
slowing down.

Regards,

DAve

Dave, sorry to hear about your misfortune. Was this check point at the
border or several miles further south? If it was at the border then I
would understand why they might have searched your car. I have had
friends that had their vehicle searched by customs agents when coming
back into the U.S. from Mexico.

It's normally ICE, not the Border Patrol, that inspects vehicles at the
border. The Border Patrol is more concerned with illegals coming into
the U.S.


Fred Ellis
--
Who do you serve. . . . And who do you trust?
(To e-mail me, remove the X from my address)

On Jul 15, 5:57 pm, Merritt Mullen wrote:

Actually, that is a federal policy, and it does not just apply to Amtrak.

If I ride Amtrak California between San Jose and Stockton, ID
is required. If I ride ACE between those same two cities,
no ID is required. Two rail systems serving the same city
pairs - one does ID checks, the other doesn't.

You have to do the same thing for an airline ticket.

Actually, nobody knows for sure because DHS makes
up secret rules and regulations. However, I can tell you
based on personal experience that it is possible to fly
without ID, however, you will be subject to extra security
checks (because as we all know, terrorists don't
have valid forms of ID).


Moreover, passengers must produce valid ID
("Papers Please!") any time they are asked to do
so while on the train.

Where does it say that?

The Amtrak web site (Passenger "Security" and Identification)

Joe the Aroma wrote:
"Bill in Schenectady" wrote:

So, why didn't they also check first class? Why don't they put road
blocks on the Thruway? Seems to me that they only look at public
transportation since that's what the poor people use. The real
terrorists, though, have resources. They by airline tickets.

Except for, you know, Spain and England. Where the terrorists really did
target public transportation.

Those evil immigration officers, trying to increase automobile usage by
asking passengers if they're American citizens.

In England, they were citizens, or had you forgotten? Not in the recent
instance.

"Alan S" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:44:38 GMT, "Bill in Schenectady"
wrote:


At it's worst, it reeks of countries where you can be stopped at any time
and place and asked to present your papers.

I wonder what the response would have been if I answered "American
citizen"
but in a foreign accent.

I've been wandering back through the answers. To be honest,
I fail to see the problem or the hysteria over random
checking.

ISTM that a problem is, despite having selected you
randomly, IME these people still treat you like a criminal
when they question you.

If they were taught to use their manners when they
first talked with people and only go into 'agressive'
mode when you give the wrong answers, people might
be more sympathetic about the job that they have to do.

tim

tim..... wrote:
"Alan S" wrote:
"Bill in Schenectady" wrote:

At it's worst, it reeks of countries where you can be stopped at any time
and place and asked to present your papers.

I wonder what the response would have been if I answered "American
citizen"
but in a foreign accent.

I've been wandering back through the answers. To be honest,
I fail to see the problem or the hysteria over random
checking.

ISTM that a problem is, despite having selected you
randomly, IME these people still treat you like a criminal
when they question you.

If they were taught to use their manners when they
first talked with people and only go into 'agressive'
mode when you give the wrong answers, people might
be more sympathetic about the job that they have to do.

Manners? Customs agents? I don't understand the concept.

Strip for a full body cavity search! Now!

Stephen Sprunk wrote:
"Merritt Mullen" wrote:
Martin D. Pay wrote:

Does that mean a US-government issued ID? If so, the tentative
plans my wife and I are making to use Amtrack for internal travel
(rather than fly internally within the USA) on our next visit
won't be possible...

No, it does not mean that. The US does not have federally-issued ID.

Of course we do; it's called a passport. That 77% of Americans haven't
bothered to get one doesn't change that fact.

In the very near future, a significant number of Americans, perhaps a
majority, will be required to have passports or be enrolled in a trusted
traveler program. No more hopping across the border to Tijuana, Vancouver,
Winsor, or Montreal to re-enter the United States with a simple declaration
of citizenship.

Due to a four-year-old law, travelers entering or re-entering the United
States from any country in the western hemisphere, including Bermuda, Canada,
and Mexico, passports will be required from nearly everyone but members of
the U.S. Armed Forces on active duty traveling on orders, merchant marine,
and those who travel frequently enrolled in a trusted traveler program (NEXUS,
SENTRI, FAST). The requirements are already in effect for those traveling
by air to the United States. The date of implementation for crossing by
land or sea hasn't been announced. State Department Passport Agency was so
backlogged that the Bush administration began allowing Americans to re-enter
if they could show proof of application.

There's also military IDs and several other ID types issued by the feds, but
none available to the general public (AFAIK) other than passports.

Showing military ID in lieu of a passport is valid only when traveling
on orders. The general public who enroll in various programs for trusted
travelers crossing the border frequently won't need a passport:

NEXUS for US and Canadian citizens who frequently cross the border by land,
sea, or air:
http://cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/freque...prog/nexus.xml

Mexicans using a Border Crossing Card, which is a visa, don't need a
passport. The Mexican government requires its citizens to carry a passport
to leave Mexico on an international flight.

There's also SENTRI, RFID cards to identify persons who have undergone
criminal background checks and RFID tags for each registered vehicle (up
to four) for crossing by land from Mexico.

FAST is for commercial truck drivers crossing the border with Canada or
Mexico.

With NEXUS, SENTRI, or FAST, travelers don't wait in the same long lines
that those who aren't enrolled do, so if one crosses the borders frequently,
it may be worthwhile to enroll even if one already has a passport.

Here are pictures of various documents that meet the new requirements:
http://cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/trav...quirements.pdf

"VWP eligible" means countries in the Visa Waiver Program, that is, our
closest allies.

Note that lawful permanent residents don't require anything but their
Green Card, which is a visa.

In article .com,
wrote:

Actually, nobody knows for sure because DHS makes
up secret rules and regulations. However, I can tell you
based on personal experience that it is possible to fly
without ID, however, you will be subject to extra security
checks (because as we all know, terrorists don't
have valid forms of ID).

And it is possible to take Amtrak without valid photo ID with extra
checks.

On 2007-07-15 21:16:51 -0400, "Adam H. Kerman" said:

sechumlib wrote:
On 2007-07-15 17:35:40 -0400, "Adam H. Kerman" said:
wrote:
On 2007-07-15 15:49:11 -0400, "Stephen Sprunk" said:

What really jerks my chain is that folks on the US side demanded to see
my passport to allow me to _leave_ the US. They were far more
interested in me than the Canadians, who just waved me through without
even opening the booth's window.

What do you mean? We cross the border frequently. Going from the US to
Canada, we don't even go through a US checkpoint. How do you get sent
through one?

And Canada is not nearly that bored by us. We always get stopped and
asked where we're going, how long we're going to be in Canada and
whether we're bringing anything that might interest them.

Beer? Back bacon?

Do you have an answer to my questions or are you just bull****ting?

In the previous paragraph, you asked a question of someone else.

You didn't ask a question in the last paragraph. Perhaps you could read what
you wrote for comprehension.

I'm just not used to smart-ass comments from people who have no
possible interest in the subject and have nothing of any value whatever
to contribute.

Which is a perfect description of you.

On 2007-07-15 23:31:44 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-15 20:44:30 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
sechumlib wrote:

What do you mean? We cross the border frequently. Going from the US to
Canada, we don't even go through a US checkpoint. How do you get sent
through one?

That is because you are crossing at a point where there is no U.S. guard
to screen you first.

Nonsense. Every one of the crossings we use has a US guard, just across
the road.

Then what do the words "We don't even go through a US checkpoint" mean?

Hello? What planet are you on?

I will describe, in nauseating detail, the checkpoints we see. As you
drive toward them from the US, there is a US station just before the
border on the left side and a Canadian station just after the border on
the right side. The right lane sends us right by the US station and
into the Canadian one. We never see a US agent, when driving in that
direction.

Coming back from Canada, the same situation exists in reverse. Can you
picture that? We never see a Canadian agent but ard sent through the US
checkpoint.

Now: any more stupid questions?

On 2007-07-15 23:33:29 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-15 20:37:46 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

I've been stopped by such patrols on Interstates in California

I-5 and I-15 both have such facilities built right into the northbound
lanes of the interstates, about 50 mile north of the border in areas where
there are no practical detours off of the interstates.

What border? If they're on I-5 and I-15, they're not in Canada, so what
border are you talking about?

The word "California" should give you a clue.

Let's see: the California "customs officials" have facilities "about 50
mile north of the border" in Oregon? Or is it about 50 miles north of
the Mexican border in Californis?

Just which border are you talking about? Most of this discussion has
been about the one with Canada.