Avoid Delta and Atlanta

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 26 Jul 2006 23:49:26 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:18:12 +0200, Mxsmanic
wrote:

Keith W writes:

30 deg and 32% humidity isnt extreme, they regard such conditions
as positively chilly in the Far East

It's difficult to even sleep in such conditions, and in the Far East,
they have air conditioning, like everywhere else.

No, they don't. Go there, and you will see.

I live in Thailand. Does this mean I have to go yank the
air-conditioning out of my Bangkok apartment? How about the window unit
in my house up country? Did that stop working magically over night?

Or do you not know what you're talking about?

Air con is generally reserved for ex-pats in Thailand.

Nonsense. That completely defies the reality here in Bangkok.

Following up to Tchiowa

None of the offices was air-conditioned. By none I mean zero. They were
full of people and computers and we had meetings and worked on the
computers by the refreshing air of fans. Many of these computers were 8
or 9 years old and still humming along fine. All of the people were even
older than that and likewise still humming along fine.

Come on, Miguel. Where in Thailand are these offices? I live and work
in Thailand and *EVERYTHING* (at least in Bangkok) is air-conditioned.
Every office, every apartment, every shopping mall. OK, maybe not
"every". 95%. Or more.

is the difference here between a perception of an "international"
district and one of the country in general?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Tchiowa

This is what happens when people let their politics color their view of
science.

Which you just demonstrated again.

Why are you talking to yourself? You are of course correct, many
Americans are letting politics colour their view of science.

Do you acknowledge *man* *made* global warming is happening and
is a problem? Yes or no?

I acknowledge that there are computer models to suggest that man is
contributing to a level of global warming that exceeds the normal
warming rate.

in at least partial denial then.
I repeat my original comment:-
"do you ever wonder why the worlds scientists think otherwise?"

And in this case your comment is just as wrong. What I wrote is pretty
much the consensus of the world's scientists.

Really? Probably only Americans think so.

Let's make it clear again: there is a difference between natural global
warming, which is proven scientific fact, and a potential man-made
component adding to that process, which is a different topic
altogether.

its the one we were and are discussing, over consumption, three
cars etc etc, remember?

nope, its the one we are discussing but the one you seek to avoid.

No. It is one that you were discussing in your own mind but didn't
bother to mention when you challenged my statement.

given that I since made it *blindingly* clear what I was talking about,

Only in your own mind.

Really?
Did you find this hard to comprehend:-

"Do you acknowledge *man* *made* global warming is happening and
is a problem? Yes or no?
That is the point."

I thought that was pretty clear.

Be specific and you'll get that kind of reaction.

the above wasn't specific, what specifics are you lacking?

Your demand that you
be declared right even though you are clearly wrong is kind of
childish. Kind of like the name-calling you seem so fond of.

Its childish to address a misunderstanding of what is meant (over
several posts) as opposed to addressing the issue. The
namecalling is therefore appropriate.

No, *you* harp on about socialism. Not me. As I said, you are
fighting yesterdays battles.

"Yesterday's battles"??? There was a discussion about medical care
*TODAY*, economic policy *TODAY*, etc. Those are today's discussions.
People like you are still trying to cling to an economic philosophy
that failed.

Nonsence, I live and work in a free market capitalist system that
chooses to fund medical care from taxes, that isnt a failed
communist state. you dont seem to be able to differentiate the
two.

I'm looking at economic mechanisms that will be needed in the
*future*, you are looking at the past, seeing capitalism beat
communism and basing all your thinking around that one point..

Economic theory and warming are linked in that in a purely
capitalist system dependant on growth there is no mechanism to
accomodate the new reality of the priority of reducing emissions.
this was my original point.

I guess you need to learn what Capitalism means before you continue to
make comments.

you guess wrong.

Capitalism has exactly zero do with mechanisms to
accomodate new realities.

Capitalism has to do with profit orientated privately (as opposed
to state) controlled systems that flourish or fail by levels of
profit or loss, nothing much else. The new realities may clash
with that.

Or are you talking about some other form of Capitalism that you forgot
to specify and are assuming that people here can read you mind?

Maybe *you* cant comprehend what i'm talking about. For example
our system depends on growth, one particular example is pension
fund investment. Growth is going to be in part incompatible with
reducing pollution. This is a problem.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Tchiowa

In Thailand the situation is somewhat similar, AC is fairly widespread
amongst the upper socio economic classes but not available for
the majority.

Blithering nonsense. I live in Thailand. A/C is not commonly used in
farming areas because the houses aren't sufficiently well-insulated.
But during the hottest times of the year the locals complain about
difficulty sleeping.

The majority of people in Thailand have A/C available. Whether they
choose to buy it or not is a different story. In Bangkok probably 95%
of the middle class has A/C and half of the poor.

LOL You are saying something fairly close to the poster you are
replying to while calling it "blithering nonsense" perhaps due to
not understanding, or choosing not to understand "available".
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Tchiowa" wrote in message
ups.com...

Keith W wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Dave Frightens Me writes:

Name a few such countries.

Essentially all of them: Singapore, India, Thailand, Nigeria, Saudi
Arabia, etc. They all have air conditioning. While the Third World
may still lag somewhat behind the most developed countries, it hasn't
been standing still.


Absolute cobblers

I lived in Singapore for a few months, while most businesses had
AC a large percentage of residential properties did not. Singapore
is very much a 1st world country by the way. They have the
highest ratio of college graduates per capita in the world IRC

I've been in a dozen residential flats in Singapore and all had A/C.

Less than 5% of the population of India have AC, indeed in most villages
the electricity supply is inadequate for anything other than lighting

True.

In Thailand the situation is somewhat similar, AC is fairly widespread
amongst the upper socio economic classes but not available for
the majority.

Blithering nonsense. I live in Thailand. A/C is not commonly used in
farming areas because the houses aren't sufficiently well-insulated.
But during the hottest times of the year the locals complain about
difficulty sleeping.


The majority of people in Thailand have A/C available. Whether they
choose to buy it or not is a different story. In Bangkok probably 95%
of the middle class has A/C and half of the poor.


Most people dont live in Bangkok and most of the population DONT have AC


In Nigeria outside of foreign compounds and government offices
its almost unknown. Most Nigerians count themselves lucky
to have a transistor radio let alone AC

I've lived in Nigeria for 2-3 years total. Again, in the rural areas
where there is no A/C you're right. But in Lagos or Abuja or PH A/C is
not at all uncommon.

They are a small part of the country and I doubt you spent much time in
the poorer districts. When 60% of the population hevent even got
electricity you wont seem many air conditioners

And your comment about radios is kind of silly.
Maybe 20 years ago.


Nope, according to official Nigerian Govt statistics only 10% of
rural households and 40% of the total population have
access to electricity.

Why do you think Trevor Bayliss invented the clockwork radio ?

Keith

The Reid wrote:

Following up to orange flamingo

I've lived most of my life in the American South. I hate the heat,
and anything over 80F is hot to me. I love the cold, but not below
freezing (32F). However, I seem to be in the minority.

count me in (and my wife), except below freezing is fine for some
things, where snow is desirable, like hill walking. I find damp
weather just above zero to be as unpleasant as temps above 80F,
while below zero eliminates humidity.

While the maximum amount of water vapor in the air at 0F is less than
1/10th that at 80F, there is still humidity. The maximum is called the
saturated mixing ratio, if you want to look into the concept more.

Dropping below 0F does not eliminate humidity. You have to go to absolute
zero (0K, or -459F) for that to happen.

Following up to James Robinson

while below zero eliminates humidity.

While the maximum amount of water vapor in the air at 0F is less than
1/10th that at 80F, there is still humidity. The maximum is called the
saturated mixing ratio, if you want to look into the concept more.

Dropping below 0F does not eliminate humidity. You have to go to absolute
zero (0K, or -459F) for that to happen.

but for practical purposes? How often wilI experience a freezing
humid day, I havent yet?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to The Reid :

Following up to James Robinson

while below zero eliminates humidity.

While the maximum amount of water vapor in the air at 0F is less than
1/10th that at 80F, there is still humidity. The maximum is called the
saturated mixing ratio, if you want to look into the concept more.

Dropping below 0F does not eliminate humidity. You have to go to absolute
zero (0K, or -459F) for that to happen.

but for practical purposes? How often wilI experience a freezing
humid day, I havent yet?

That damp, sticky cold that is so typical of UK winters can be felt until
around -5C, then it really starts to feel drier and you get that "dry-cold"
which is what I think you mean? Until -5C I wouldn't call it humid as that
is generally associated with warm temps, but "damp" sure.
--
Tim C.

Following up to The Reid

Dropping below 0F does not eliminate humidity. You have to go to absolute
zero (0K, or -459F) for that to happen.

BTW looking back at my original post I see I mixed measures. By 0
I meant freezing point. I'm afriad I'm on of those people who is
most comfortable with 60 70 80 90 F but for cold temperatures I
prefer C as it informs me about the likelyhod of snow and ice
more clearly!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Tim C.

That damp, sticky cold that is so typical of UK winters can be felt until
around -5C, then it really starts to feel drier and you get that "dry-cold"
which is what I think you mean?

Yes.

Until -5C I wouldn't call it humid as that
is generally associated with warm temps, but "damp" sure.

probably the biggest factor is rain v snow.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap