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UK Phones - Compatible with Oz SIM cards?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 10th, 2005, 03:21 PM
Spammy Sammy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
1. The $AUD has just come off a 10 year maximum against the pound.


I didn't know it was a *high* but I'll take your word for it.

2. It doesn't matter what the exchange rate is.


Of course it does. If coming/going to another country seemingly small
fluctuations in the exchange rate make a sometimes hefty difference to your
purchasing power.

Doesn't make
any difference if you buy them in pounds corresponding to some US$, or
convert pounds to $AUD corresponding to the same US$. It will be the same
cost in pounds.


Untrue. You can currently buy a 3315 (not the snazziest phone but it's still
a phone) for around $50. At the current exchange rate that's approx £20 I
believe. Is there an equal model similarly priced in the UK at present? On
the other side of the coin you can get a 3220 from Orange for £49.99 I think
whereas here the cheapest PAYG 3220 is $250. The costs do not appear the
same to me, even if converted back to US$

The statement "the exchange rate will be in your favour" is
completely meaningless when talking about tradeable currencies (ie all
Western currencies including the pound and the $AUD). What does "in your
favour" even supposed to mean? How do you determine if its "in your

favour",
and how does that make tradable manufactured goods cheaper to buy?


Sorry - utter ********. Some goods work out as being the same cost when sold
in diferent countries and their currencies are compared. Also one has to
factor in shipping costs. Some goods, however, work out cheaper to buy
overseas as when the shipping cost is factored in, the price is still lower
than that available in ones home country.

If you
don't want to look a bit of an idiot, you might stop using the phrase
"exchange rate in your favour" in future.


I don't think I am the idiot here. I don't think I'm as rude either.

3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a

local
operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of Australia. One

of
the very few items that you can buy in Australia that you can be

guaranteed
will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap and hence locked mobile
phone).


Please explain. Handsets can be unlocked, and phones in Aus use the same
frequencies as in the UK. I use a 3220 that I brought with me from the UK,
along with my 3330 and a ratty old 5110 (although I'm not sure how this last
one ended up coming along for the ride).

The only issue may be if the item becomes faulty whilst under guarantee as
it'd be a bit of a pain sending it back I think.

Other than that, please keep up your useful, well thought through and
informed posts.


Hmm.


  #12  
Old July 10th, 2005, 03:21 PM
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:22:43 +1000, Peter Webb wrote:

3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a
local operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of
Australia. One of the very few items that you can buy in Australia that
you can be guaranteed will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap
and hence locked mobile phone).


Until you get it unlocked. Costs about a fiver. Loads of places do it.

Jason

--
http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Australian trip reports including
New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria and Western Australia

  #13  
Old July 11th, 2005, 05:19 AM
David Bennetts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...

3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a
local operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of
Australia. One of the very few items that you can buy in Australia that
you can be guaranteed will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap
and hence locked mobile phone).


Not correct. I recently bought a prepaid Motorola package from Vodafone for
the princely sum of $39.
The simple little phone works well, it has the best battery life you'd ever
come across (see Choice Magazine to verify this), and what's more is
UNLOCKED.

What's more, if the phone is locked, there are plenty of websites available
where you can get an unlocking code for a small fee, just do a google
search.

Regards

David Bennetts


  #14  
Old July 11th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Peter Webb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Spammy Sammy" wrote in message
news:1121005446.252456@teuthos...

"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
1. The $AUD has just come off a 10 year maximum against the pound.


I didn't know it was a *high* but I'll take your word for it.

2. It doesn't matter what the exchange rate is.


Of course it does. If coming/going to another country seemingly small
fluctuations in the exchange rate make a sometimes hefty difference to
your
purchasing power.

Doesn't make
any difference if you buy them in pounds corresponding to some US$, or
convert pounds to $AUD corresponding to the same US$. It will be the same
cost in pounds.


Untrue. You can currently buy a 3315 (not the snazziest phone but it's
still
a phone) for around $50. At the current exchange rate that's approx £20 I
believe. Is there an equal model similarly priced in the UK at present?



Gee, I don't know, you are the person claiming that phones are cheaper in
Australia than in the UK due to the "exchange rate being in your favour".
Would be helpful if you picked an example where you actually knew the price
in the UK.


On
the other side of the coin you can get a 3220 from Orange for £49.99 I
think
whereas here the cheapest PAYG 3220 is $250. The costs do not appear the
same to me, even if converted back to US$


So a phone which costs £49.99 ($US 100) in the UK costs $AUD250 ($US 200) in
Australia. Doesn't this directly contradict your arguemnt, that "the
exchange rate is in your favour" and so phones would be cheaper in
Australia?

And if this were the case, why wouldn't phone retailers simply buy phones in
bulk in the UK and import them?



The statement "the exchange rate will be in your favour" is
completely meaningless when talking about tradeable currencies (ie all
Western currencies including the pound and the $AUD). What does "in your
favour" even supposed to mean? How do you determine if its "in your

favour",
and how does that make tradable manufactured goods cheaper to buy?


Sorry - utter ********. Some goods work out as being the same cost when
sold
in diferent countries and their currencies are compared. Also one has to
factor in shipping costs. Some goods, however, work out cheaper to buy
overseas as when the shipping cost is factored in, the price is still
lower
than that available in ones home country.



OK, so how do you work out if the "exchange rate is in your favour". What
does this mean? For what currencies are the exchange rate in your favour?
Hpw do you determine this? I am really, really trying to work out if this
statement is completely meaningless as it appears to me to be.
If you


don't want to look a bit of an idiot, you might stop using the phrase
"exchange rate in your favour" in future.


I don't think I am the idiot here. I don't think I'm as rude either.


OK, just defining this "exchange rate in your favour" would be a start to
showing you are not an idiot. Then demonstrating that mobile phones are
cheaper in Australia as you originally claimed, not more expensive as seem
to be stating now would be a good follow-up.



3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a

local
operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of Australia. One

of
the very few items that you can buy in Australia that you can be

guaranteed
will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap and hence locked mobile
phone).


Please explain. Handsets can be unlocked, and phones in Aus use the same
frequencies as in the UK. I use a 3220 that I brought with me from the UK,
along with my 3330 and a ratty old 5110 (although I'm not sure how this
last
one ended up coming along for the ride).

The only issue may be if the item becomes faulty whilst under guarantee as
it'd be a bit of a pain sending it back I think.


Legally, locked handsets (locked to a carrier) can only be unlocked by the
carrier, though as other point out for those with a bit of technical savvy
who don't mind breaking the law there are ways around this.

Other than that, please keep up your useful, well thought through and
informed posts.


Hmm.




  #15  
Old July 11th, 2005, 09:46 AM
Spammy Sammy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
Untrue. You can currently buy a 3315 (not the snazziest phone but it's
still
a phone) for around $50. At the current exchange rate that's approx £20

I
believe. Is there an equal model similarly priced in the UK at present?



Gee, I don't know, you are the person claiming that phones are cheaper in
Australia than in the UK due to the "exchange rate being in your favour".
Would be helpful if you picked an example where you actually knew the

price
in the UK.


I was questioning your undoubted insight and expanse of knowledge in asking
whether a handset of similar capability is available for the sum of £20. I
was not asking about this particular model. I think you will find the price
cannot be beaten in the UK, and I am therefore correct in my statement.

On
the other side of the coin you can get a 3220 from Orange for £49.99 I
think
whereas here the cheapest PAYG 3220 is $250. The costs do not appear the
same to me, even if converted back to US$


So a phone which costs £49.99 ($US 100) in the UK costs $AUD250 ($US 200)

in
Australia. Doesn't this directly contradict your arguemnt, that "the
exchange rate is in your favour" and so phones would be cheaper in
Australia?


This answer was to refute your claim that all phones are priced in UD$ and
therefore cost the same. I believe I have achieved this.

And if this were the case, why wouldn't phone retailers simply buy phones

in
bulk in the UK and import them?


Err, they do. Whether from outside or inside the EU. Mine was UK bought but
made in Germany.

The statement "the exchange rate will be in your favour" is
completely meaningless when talking about tradeable currencies (ie all
Western currencies including the pound and the $AUD). What does "in

your
favour" even supposed to mean? How do you determine if its "in your

favour",
and how does that make tradable manufactured goods cheaper to buy?


Sorry - utter ********. Some goods work out as being the same cost when
sold
in diferent countries and their currencies are compared. Also one has to
factor in shipping costs. Some goods, however, work out cheaper to buy
overseas as when the shipping cost is factored in, the price is still
lower
than that available in ones home country.


OK, so how do you work out if the "exchange rate is in your favour". What
does this mean? For what currencies are the exchange rate in your favour?
Hpw do you determine this? I am really, really trying to work out if this
statement is completely meaningless as it appears to me to be.
If you


don't want to look a bit of an idiot, you might stop using the phrase
"exchange rate in your favour" in future.


I don't think I am the idiot here. I don't think I'm as rude either.


OK, just defining this "exchange rate in your favour" would be a start to
showing you are not an idiot. Then demonstrating that mobile phones are
cheaper in Australia as you originally claimed, not more expensive as seem
to be stating now would be a good follow-up.


Ok. I live in the UK, and relocate elsewhere in the world. The amount
realised from the sale of asset "A" is £100.00. On arriving in my new abode
I replace asset "A" with a locally bought equivalent. Let's call it asset
"B" and say it cost $200. Let us also say that asset "B" is in equal or
better condition than asset "A". The exchange rate is therefore in my favour
in this deal.

3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a

local
operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of Australia.

One
of
the very few items that you can buy in Australia that you can be

guaranteed
will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap and hence locked

mobile
phone).


Please explain. Handsets can be unlocked, and phones in Aus use the same
frequencies as in the UK. I use a 3220 that I brought with me from the

UK,
along with my 3330 and a ratty old 5110 (although I'm not sure how this
last
one ended up coming along for the ride).

The only issue may be if the item becomes faulty whilst under guarantee

as
it'd be a bit of a pain sending it back I think.


Legally, locked handsets (locked to a carrier) can only be unlocked by the
carrier, though as other point out for those with a bit of technical savvy
who don't mind breaking the law there are ways around this.


A payg phone may be subsidied but I haven't seen any documentation that
states I cannot have it unlocked. Mind you I haven't seen anything in print
that states I can unlock the handset either.


  #16  
Old July 11th, 2005, 10:13 AM
Peter Webb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Spammy Sammy" wrote in message
news:1121071729.967763@teuthos...

"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...
Untrue. You can currently buy a 3315 (not the snazziest phone but it's
still
a phone) for around $50. At the current exchange rate that's approx £20

I
believe. Is there an equal model similarly priced in the UK at present?



Gee, I don't know, you are the person claiming that phones are cheaper in
Australia than in the UK due to the "exchange rate being in your favour".
Would be helpful if you picked an example where you actually knew the

price
in the UK.


I was questioning your undoubted insight and expanse of knowledge in
asking
whether a handset of similar capability is available for the sum of £20. I
was not asking about this particular model. I think you will find the
price
cannot be beaten in the UK, and I am therefore correct in my statement.



I cannot find a better price in the UK? You expect me to search the web to
find the facts to back up your argument?



On
the other side of the coin you can get a 3220 from Orange for £49.99 I
think
whereas here the cheapest PAYG 3220 is $250. The costs do not appear
the
same to me, even if converted back to US$


So a phone which costs £49.99 ($US 100) in the UK costs $AUD250 ($US 200)

in
Australia. Doesn't this directly contradict your arguemnt, that "the
exchange rate is in your favour" and so phones would be cheaper in
Australia?


This answer was to refute your claim that all phones are priced in UD$ and
therefore cost the same. I believe I have achieved this.



You haven't done this, because you haven't actually shown me where I can buy
this phone for £49.99
And anyway your claim was that phones are cheaper in Australia. "Proving"
they are more expensive in Australia seems a pretty stupid argument on your
side. Aren't you supposed to be proving they are cheaper?


And if this were the case, why wouldn't phone retailers simply buy phones

in
bulk in the UK and import them?


Err, they do. Whether from outside or inside the EU. Mine was UK bought
but
made in Germany.



Umm ... why didn't you buy it in Australia? Wasn't the exchange rate in your
favour at the time? (ha ha)


The statement "the exchange rate will be in your favour" is
completely meaningless when talking about tradeable currencies (ie all
Western currencies including the pound and the $AUD). What does "in

your
favour" even supposed to mean? How do you determine if its "in your
favour",
and how does that make tradable manufactured goods cheaper to buy?

Sorry - utter ********. Some goods work out as being the same cost when
sold
in diferent countries and their currencies are compared. Also one has
to
factor in shipping costs. Some goods, however, work out cheaper to buy
overseas as when the shipping cost is factored in, the price is still
lower
than that available in ones home country.


OK, so how do you work out if the "exchange rate is in your favour". What
does this mean? For what currencies are the exchange rate in your favour?
Hpw do you determine this? I am really, really trying to work out if this
statement is completely meaningless as it appears to me to be.
If you


don't want to look a bit of an idiot, you might stop using the phrase
"exchange rate in your favour" in future.

I don't think I am the idiot here. I don't think I'm as rude either.


OK, just defining this "exchange rate in your favour" would be a start to
showing you are not an idiot. Then demonstrating that mobile phones are
cheaper in Australia as you originally claimed, not more expensive as
seem
to be stating now would be a good follow-up.


Ok. I live in the UK, and relocate elsewhere in the world. The amount
realised from the sale of asset "A" is £100.00. On arriving in my new
abode
I replace asset "A" with a locally bought equivalent. Let's call it asset
"B" and say it cost $200. Let us also say that asset "B" is in equal or
better condition than asset "A". The exchange rate is therefore in my
favour
in this deal.



So "the exchange rate is in your favour" actually just means "you can buy
some things cheaper".

So when you go into a supermarket, the exchange rate may be in your favour
when you buy oranges (because they are cheaper), but not in your favour when
you buy the eggs, in your favour again when you buy bread, not in your
favour when you buy milk, and so on?

I still don't understand what this has got to do with exchange rates. The
exchange rate would appear to be exactly the same when you hit the
supermarket checkout, but somehow its in your favour for oranges and bread,
but not eggs or milk. Or is the exchange rate you are talking about
something different to currency exchange rate, which is what I thought you
were talking about?



3. Of all the things to buy overseas, a mobile phone looks one of the
stupidest. You get the best prices if you buy a handset "locked" to a
local
operator (telco), but such a handset is useless outside of Australia.

One
of
the very few items that you can buy in Australia that you can be
guaranteed
will not work anywhere else in the world (a cheap and hence locked

mobile
phone).

Please explain. Handsets can be unlocked, and phones in Aus use the
same
frequencies as in the UK. I use a 3220 that I brought with me from the

UK,
along with my 3330 and a ratty old 5110 (although I'm not sure how this
last
one ended up coming along for the ride).

The only issue may be if the item becomes faulty whilst under guarantee

as
it'd be a bit of a pain sending it back I think.


Legally, locked handsets (locked to a carrier) can only be unlocked by
the
carrier, though as other point out for those with a bit of technical
savvy
who don't mind breaking the law there are ways around this.


A payg phone may be subsidied but I haven't seen any documentation that
states I cannot have it unlocked. Mind you I haven't seen anything in
print
that states I can unlock the handset either.



Here in Australia, the documentation says "locked to Telstra [or whoever]"
and then details the fee for unlocking (can be several hundred dollars). It
appears in all advertising, at point-of-sale, on the box, and in the sales
contract. If you haven't seen any documenation that states you can't use it
on other networks, you probably have never been in an Australian mobile
phone shop. If that is the case, one can only wonder why you feel the need
to share your expertise on Australian mobile phone costs on the internet.



  #17  
Old July 11th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Spammy Sammy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Peter Webb" wrote in message
u...

Quick question before we start up again - is this the 5 minute argument of
the full half hour?

snip
I was questioning your undoubted insight and expanse of knowledge in
asking
whether a handset of similar capability is available for the sum of £20.

I
was not asking about this particular model. I think you will find the
price
cannot be beaten in the UK, and I am therefore correct in my statement.



I cannot find a better price in the UK? You expect me to search the web to
find the facts to back up your argument?


To be honest I don't really care whether you do or dont as I'm getting a tad
bored arguing with you over nothing in particular. Bear in mind though that
in order to win this point the onus is on you to disprove me by finding a
new 3315 equivalent for £20.00.

snip
This answer was to refute your claim that all phones are priced in UD$

and
therefore cost the same. I believe I have achieved this.


You haven't done this, because you haven't actually shown me where I can

buy
this phone for £49.99


Oh dear - t'was on Orange but the offer content has changed and I didn't
think to check. On this point I will have to stand corrected as it's now
£69.99

snip
Here in Australia, the documentation says "locked to Telstra [or whoever]"
and then details the fee for unlocking (can be several hundred dollars).

It
appears in all advertising, at point-of-sale, on the box, and in the sales
contract. If you haven't seen any documenation that states you can't use

it
on other networks, you probably have never been in an Australian mobile
phone shop.


Grey area. I feel the documentation that states it cannot be used on any
other network relates to the fact it is locked. Nowhere does the
documentation state that you, the owner of the phopne, cannot have it
unlocked via your own sources. You obviously feel the documentation
prohibits unlocking unless the prescribed fee is paid to the network to
which the phone is locked. It is not clear either way.

If that is the case, one can only wonder why you feel the need
to share your expertise on Australian mobile phone costs on the internet.


I could ask you the same question. You came into this thread purely to fire
a broadside at me - not to help the OP in any way whatsoever.

I, on the other hand, was offering a suggestion to the original poster - one
which the OP may find useful if they happen across a phone they particularly
like whilst here, and if the $AUD v £GBP conversion works in their favour in
the purchase.

Perhaps your angst is cause by something entirely unrelated to mobile
phones, domestic trouble perhaps, issues at work etc. Maybe if you shared
your burden you would be a happier person.


  #18  
Old July 11th, 2005, 08:35 PM
Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:49:42 +1000, Peter Webb wrote:

Legally, locked handsets (locked to a carrier) can only be unlocked by the
carrier, though as other point out for those with a bit of technical savvy
who don't mind breaking the law there are ways around this.


I've no idea what Australian law says, but unlocking your phone is
completely legal in the UK. It's your property.

Jason

--
See http://www.scuba-addict.co.uk/ for Caribbean trip reports
including Aruba, Cuba, Grand Bahama, Barbados, St Lucia and Mexico

  #19  
Old July 12th, 2005, 11:49 AM
Simon Pleasants
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:51:32 +0930, "Spammy Sammy"
wrote:

Of course it does. If coming/going to another country seemingly small
fluctuations in the exchange rate make a sometimes hefty difference to your
purchasing power.


At the risk of getting drawn into a squabble that I have no real
interest in being caught up in, I tend to agree.

Take our holiday in 2001. It cost us X amount of AU$ @ AU$2.70/£1.
Two years later we were getting AU$2.35/£1. Simple maths shows that
had we been getting that in 2001 the cost of our holiday would have
risen by £400 on exchange rate alone. So yes, in 2001 the exchange
rate was definitely in our favour, relatively speaking.

Where I disagree is that is in our favour now - I'm getting around
AU$2.32/£1 on my Egg card at the moment so if anything it has gone the
other way.

On the subject of mobile phones, I always found Oz to be rather more
expensive than the UK, though in the past PAYG phones in the UK were
heavily subsidized by the networks. After they nearly bankrupted
themselves shelling out for 3G licenses the subsidies all but stopped
and people started seeing the true of the handsets. Because of the
tendency of networks to artificially alter the cost of locked handsets
I think it's hard to compare real life costs of mobile phones because
there are too many variables, such as network subsidies etc.

I have certainly found camera equipment to be very costly in Oz and
film / developing quality very poor, though that is becoming less
important as less film is used.
 




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