Questions for travellers/backpackers......

Hi All.
My wife and I are putting the finishing touches on a 3 month trip to
the south of France, Italy and Greece starting in mid Sept. It was to
include Egypt but with the recent bombings my wife is a bit/LOT freaked
out.
Although we have done some travelling in the past this will be our
first trip of this length and the first one with only backpacks. We
plan on doing things as cheap as possible but no, or minimal youth
hostels (we can afford a bit better). So here's the question:
1. Anyone here backpacked Europe?
2. Any tips on what to take and what NOT to take?
I plan on bringing the bare minimum. 2 Travel pants, 2 shorts, maybe
3 t-shirts, one or two collared shirts, 2 underwear, 2 socks, a hat,one
pullover fleece sweater, one rain jacket, one pair of walking shoes and
one pair of sandals. How does that sound? Of course that doesn't take
into consideration the little first-aid kit, toilettries, travel info,
camera etc etc. By the way all the clothes we are bringing are "travel"
clothes meaning quick dry so we can wash in the sinks at night.
3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!
4. For anyone who's been to those 3 countries,what things we should NOT
miss (other than the obvious. Or even maybe the obvious. Last time in
Paris we hesitated before going up on the Arc De Triomphe cause it
seemed pretty touristy but it was one of the most breath-taking sites
we have both ever seen!!!)?
5. Anyone rent a car in Italy or France? We plan on it and I'd like to
know how the driving is. After having seen Paris I will be avoiding
driving into major cities, Milan, Rome etc, but the countryside and
little villages is what I was wondering about. Is there a cheaper way
to rent a car?
6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?
7. We had originally planned to hit the Greek Islands in late Oct/early
Nov but I recently read that some ferries shut down and a lot of the
hotels close their doors for the season. Is this true? Do some cheaper
hotels stay open?
Like I said, any tips would be more than welcomed. It's funny but I am
as nervous as I am excited.We know that this trip is not lying on the
beach at some resort.
Thanks for listening and any help will be much appreciated.
Montreal Bob
PS At least 5 people have talked to me about the Cinque Terre in
Italy. It look amazing!!!!! We will do that for sure.

"2. Any tips on what to take and what NOT to take? I plan on bringing
the bare minimum. 2 Travel pants, 2 shorts, maybe 3 t-shirts, one or
two collared shirts, 2 underwear, 2 socks, a hat,one pullover fleece
sweater, one rain jacket, one pair of walking shoes and one pair of
sandals. How does that sound? Of course that doesn't take into
consideration the little first-aid kit, toilettries, travel info,
camera etc etc. By the way all the clothes we are bringing are "travel"
clothes meaning quick dry so we can wash in the sinks at night."

Maybe bring a little more than that. There are plenty of laundromats
in tourist areas that will let you drop your clothes off in the
morning, wash them for you, and let you pick them up at the end of the
day for a small fee, so don't worry about having to wash your own
stuff.

BTW, make sure your luggage is easily manageable. Could you get it up
a few flights of stairs in a hotel or train station? (elevators and
escalators are far from universal in Europe) Don't even consider a
suitcase without wheels.

"3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!"

Avoid restaurants that are right next to major tourist sites, that have
picture menus or menus in five languages, or that have a folklore show.

If you haven't arranged a hotel room in advance of arriving in a city,
you can get one at the last minute at the tourist office in any major
train station or airport. Tell them what neighborhood you want, and
how much you are willing to pay, and they can almost always set you up
right on the spot for a few dollars commission. In expensive places
like Venice, try to reserve an inexpensive hotel in advance, since the
supply of cheap rooms can be very limited.

"6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?"

I don't think it would pay off in your case. Italian trains are cheap,
and you can't use the pass on Greek domestic ferries. If in France you
are sticking to basically Provence and the Riviera, the short train
rides between destinations there won't be expensive enough to justify a
French rail pass.

"7. We had originally planned to hit the Greek Islands in late
Oct/early Nov but I recently read that some ferries shut down and a lot
of the hotels close their doors for the season. Is this true? Do some
cheaper hotels stay open?"

The Mediterranean beaches have a short season, since the water is too
cold most of the year. If you want to spend time on the Greek islands
or on the French Riviera, you should start your trip there in
mid-September as opposed to visiting them later. October is a good
time to see Greece if you are interested in historical sights as
opposed to beaches, since the tourist sites are much less crowded
outside of the summer season.

BTW, make sure your luggage is easily manageable. Could you get it up
a few flights of stairs in a hotel or train station? (elevators and
escalators are far from universal in Europe) Don't even consider a
suitcase without wheels.

Wheels add weight. Don't even consider a suitcase with them.

I haven't been to many of the places the OP is thinking of, but a
lot of them will be old cities with random steps and cobblestones
where a backpack would be far easier. (Istanbul has to take the
biscuit for wheel-unfriendliness, porters there still use carrying
frames on their backs for a reason).

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

"Bobby McGee" schrieb:


2. Any tips on what to take and what NOT to take?

What you list sound OK. A few tips: Your backpack shouldn't be broader
than you, or you'll hate train aisles. Leave space for things bought on
the trip. And you can always shop for whatever you didn't take
with you.


3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought
the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!

For hotels, the local tourist informations are the best place.
However, some close early. For good, inexpensive eating in cities
that have a university, I usually start my search close to it. Apart
from that, I go by absolute price (how much can I afford, instead of
is it below average price for the place) and by smell.


4. For anyone who's been to those 3 countries,what things we should
NOT
miss

Where are you going in Italy? (I've never been to France for
any length of time, and never to Greece at all, so...)


5. Anyone rent a car in Italy or France? We plan on it and I'd like
to
know how the driving is. After having seen Paris I will be avoiding
driving into major cities, Milan, Rome etc, but the countryside and
little villages is what I was wondering about. Is there a cheaper way
to rent a car?

I once needed to rent a car in Italy, although that was not what I
had planned to do :-(. It was no trouble at all, and the car
was quite nice. I'd probably take a small car over a large one,
as I find them easier to handle in the towns.

I found driving small roads in Italy relaxing and worth it. We
used to buy antipasti in supermarkets, and stop at some nice
place for a picnic.

In case it it not obvious: Inform yourself on the relevant
traffic rules and keep to them. Speeding, or even wrong
parking can become very expensive.



6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?

Check in advance whether it's worth it.


Like I said, any tips would be more than welcomed. It's funny but I
am
as nervous as I am excited.

And I'm envious!

inge

Bobby McGee wrote:

Although we have done some travelling in the past this will be our
first trip of this length and the first one with only backpacks. We
plan on doing things as cheap as possible but no, or minimal youth
hostels (we can afford a bit better). So here's the question:
1. Anyone here backpacked Europe?
I've traveled all over Europe for months at a time with a shoulder bag,
about 18"x13"x9". A backpack is too big for me.
2. Any tips on what to take and what NOT to take?
I plan on bringing the bare minimum. 2 Travel pants, 2 shorts, maybe
3 t-shirts, one or two collared shirts, 2 underwear, 2 socks, a hat,one
pullover fleece sweater, one rain jacket, one pair of walking shoes and
one pair of sandals. How does that sound? Of course that doesn't take
into consideration the little first-aid kit, toilettries, travel info,
camera etc etc. By the way all the clothes we are bringing are "travel"
clothes meaning quick dry so we can wash in the sinks at night.

There are packing lists galore posted on the internet. Mine is at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap06/packing.htm

3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!
LP is a good choice. Also network with other travelers as you move
around. City tourist offices, usually near the train station or town
square generally provide excellent service.

4. For anyone who's been to those 3 countries,what things we should NOT
miss (other than the obvious. Or even maybe the obvious. Last time in
Paris we hesitated before going up on the Arc De Triomphe cause it
seemed pretty touristy but it was one of the most breath-taking sites
we have both ever seen!!!)?
Read the LP and Michelin Green Guides to decide what you want to see.

5. Anyone rent a car in Italy or France? We plan on it and I'd like to
know how the driving is. After having seen Paris I will be avoiding
driving into major cities, Milan, Rome etc, but the countryside and
little villages is what I was wondering about. Is there a cheaper way
to rent a car?
Haven't rented a car in those countries but have driven my own car
around in each. Don't drive in the major cities. Know what the local
signs mean. See my page at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto.htm

6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?
See your local travel agent. Get a brochure. Study. There are many
options. Learn how to use the trains at
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm

7. We had originally planned to hit the Greek Islands in late Oct/early
Nov but I recently read that some ferries shut down and a lot of the
hotels close their doors for the season. Is this true? Do some cheaper
hotels stay open?
Like I said, any tips would be more than welcomed. It's funny but I am
as nervous as I am excited.We know that this trip is not lying on the
beach at some resort.
Thanks for listening and any help will be much appreciated.
Montreal Bob
PS At least 5 people have talked to me about the Cinque Terre in
Italy. It look amazing!!!!! We will do that for sure.


A final tip: read those LP books from page one. Also, look in your
library for DK guides and study them before you go.

John Bermont

--
------------------------------------------------------
* * * Mastering Independent Budget Travel * * *
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/
------------------------------------------------------
This email powered by Thunderbird. Learn more at:
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 01:43:15 +0100, Bobby McGee wrote
(in article om):

We had originally planned to hit the Greek Islands in late Oct/early Nov but
I recently read that some ferries shut down and a lot of the hotels close
their doors for the season. Is this true?

Yes, it is true. By the end of October a lot of hotels and tavernas will have
closed for the winter. The ferry schedules will also have been drastically
reduced

Do some cheaper hotels stay open?

I think on the contrary the more expensive up-market hotels often remain open
through the winter but most smaller ones will close down. Certainly private
rooms and apartments (which are a very good alternative to hotels in the
summer) will all be closed.

Also the weather becomes increasingly uncertain during October. The storms
that often occur at that time can be quite vicious in the Aegean, playing
havoc with the ferries, and making life generally difficult. Also by the end
of October the sun sets quite early (about 6 pm) and the evenings become
quite chilly - much too cold to have drinks or meals outside.

For all these reasons I would not consider going to the Greek islands after
mid-October.

--
Mike Lane (UK North Yorkshire)
To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane

Bobby McGee wrote:
1. Anyone here backpacked Europe?

Yes, but not much in Southern Europe.

2. Any tips on what to take and what NOT to take?
I plan on bringing the bare minimum. 2 Travel pants, 2 shorts, maybe
3 t-shirts, one or two collared shirts, 2 underwear, 2 socks, a hat,one
pullover fleece sweater, one rain jacket, one pair of walking shoes and
one pair of sandals. How does that sound?

I'd bring more underwear, it doesn't take up much space and keeps it together
if for some reason you are out late and don't have time to wash one night.
Rick Steves' company sells little twisted travel clotheslines which I just
adore, make it very easy to hang your stuff up. I usually backpack with 3
full outfits (including what I am wearing) an extra shirt or two, an extra
skirt (I'm a girl, they can be really useful to throw over shorts in a church.)
I'd skip one pair of shorts, as your time goes so fully into the fall/winter.
Although I'm not sure about that late in the year in the south; my travel has
as I said been mostly north,


Of course that doesn't take
into consideration the little first-aid kit, toilettries,

Bring minimal toiletries, buy european ones as you travel.

travel info,

Bring only one book with you, or evern just those portions of the book for
where you intend to travel, if you know that you are not doing all of it. Throw
the books out as you travel to lighten the load and provide room for stuff you
bring home.

camera etc etc.

Digital or film? If the former, you probably need a plan to store all the
photos, if the latter bring lots of film mailers home and send them back for
processing as you take them. (Note that the post from the Vatican in Rome is
better and more reliable than the post elsewhere in Italy. Try to mail stuff
there).

By the way all the clothes we are bringing are "travel"
clothes meaning quick dry so we can wash in the sinks at night.

I have a number of these also, they work very nicely.

3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!

This may be obvious but eat a meal a day out of a supermarket, farmer's market,
or streetside food stand. You both get a cheap meal and you get an entree
into everyday life in the culture.

i 4. For anyone who's been to those 3 countries,what things we should NOT
miss (other than the obvious. Or even maybe the obvious. Last time in
Paris we hesitated before going up on the Arc De Triomphe cause it
seemed pretty touristy but it was one of the most breath-taking sites
we have both ever seen!!!)?

Italy everywhere you move there are must sees. I'd not miss the Archeological
Museum in Naples, Pompeii/Herculeum ruins, Vatican in Rome, plus a catacomb
if you have any religous feeling at all, also the Pantheon, Forum, Coliseum,
Spanish Steps, Piazza Navona. San Ignatio church in Rome is also very neat,
with an elaborate Trompe L'Oeil ceiling that is worth seeing.

Don't skip DAvid and the accademia in Florence. The mosaics in Ravenna are
exquisite. In Padua the Scrovegni chapel is lovely if you care about Ren-
assance art; it's an early renaissance masterpiece by Giotto. Unless you
care a lot about the Last Supper, I don't know about Milan. It's not on my
top 10 list.

I've only been to Northern France, but you can read some of my Italy trip j
journal at

http://www.dragonsholm.org/italy2004/italyframe.htm

if you care. It's fairly picture heavy, so if you have dialup beware!

5. Anyone rent a car in Italy or France? We plan on it and I'd like to
know how the driving is. After having seen Paris I will be avoiding
driving into major cities, Milan, Rome etc, but the countryside and
little villages is what I was wondering about. Is there a cheaper way
to rent a car?

I would avoid it in southern Italy; plus trains there are very good.

6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?

Compare them very carefully. You may find a single country pass is the best.
Also check out twin passes, which usually provide a significant discount for
two people.

7. We had originally planned to hit the Greek Islands in late Oct/early
Nov but I recently read that some ferries shut down and a lot of the
hotels close their doors for the season. Is this true? Do some cheaper
hotels stay open?
Like I said, any tips would be more than welcomed. It's funny but I am
as nervous as I am excited.We know that this trip is not lying on the
beach at some resort.
Thanks for listening and any help will be much appreciated.
Montreal Bob
PS At least 5 people have talked to me about the Cinque Terre in
Italy. It look amazing!!!!! We will do that for sure.

Have a great deal of fun. While you are there (Oct/November) I'll be in Germany.

Julie
--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Iceman wrote:

BTW, make sure your luggage is easily manageable. Could you get it up
a few flights of stairs in a hotel or train station? (elevators and
escalators are far from universal in Europe) Don't even consider a
suitcase without wheels.

I disagree about the wheels (though not about the manageable). Many of the
backpack style luggage does not have wheels, but carries very easily on the
back. Indeed the wheels add weight and are very uncomfortable on a backpack
syle bag. Make sure your backpack does not exceed 40 pounds, though.

"3. Any tricks on finding cheap hotels, cheap restos etc? We bought the
Lonely Planet books on all 3 countries and they look amazing!!!"

Don't rule hostels out too quickly, as they can be wonderful. Many have
double rooms (the one in Naples does, and my husband and I liked it quite
a lot).

Avoid restaurants that are right next to major tourist sites, that have
picture menus or menus in five languages, or that have a folklore show.

Yes. Hopefully Lonely Planet will guide you in this. There are some lovely
very inexpensive restaurants right near the Mergellina Subway stop in Naples.
Go out the train, turn right, under and underpass to where you can see the
bay in the distance.

Don't resist gelato in Italy.

"6. Any tips on buying a Eurorail pass?"

I don't think it would pay off in your case. Italian trains are cheap,
and you can't use the pass on Greek domestic ferries. If in France you
are sticking to basically Provence and the Riviera, the short train
rides between destinations there won't be expensive enough to justify a
French rail pass.

Spend some time figuring out the utility price ratio of the pass. Make up
a sample itinerary (you don't have to take it) and price the individual tickets
(you can do this on the web trenitalia in italy, has a site) vs. the pass.
Consider the single country passes if you do get passes. I think the Eurail
is much more expensive than italian trains.


--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

Juliana L Holm writes:

Don't resist gelato in Italy.

This is important. I don't care about ice-cream at all, but I was
talked into trying Italian gelato and it is absolutely fantastic.

Des

Des Small wrote:
Juliana L Holm writes:

Don't resist gelato in Italy.

This is important. I don't care about ice-cream at all, but I was
talked into trying Italian gelato and it is absolutely fantastic.

My husband became so addicted, that I had to get an authentic cookbook and
make it at home. Some flavors I do are amazingly similar to in Italy. Others
I struggle more with (my favorite, nocciola, for example)

Julie

--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm