If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#91
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
Mxsmanic wrote: EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) writes: They do if the languages are properly taught! The US is not the place to look for languages properly taught. How would you know? Judging from your posts, you've not been "home" to the U.S. in many, many years! |
#92
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:13:08 +0200, Dave Frightens Me
wrote: Chinese is next to useless, coz it's extremely difficult to master, Spoken Chinese is relatively easy, as it has almost no grammar. Written Chinese is difficult, but it's very useful because it's understood widely throughout Asia. and even by the Chinese is seen as an inferior language. Surely you're not serious! Chances are you will never need it in the business or social world. Japanese comes in a number of flavours, but is only used in Japan. Written Chinese is often used to communicate between Japanese/Koreans/Chinese, because they all have some familiarity with the Chinese characters, even though their spoken languages are very different. If you're in a mixed group of Asians, you'll often see them write Chinese characters on paper napkins, or even air-write them on their hands, to clarify what they're saying in English. -- Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup |
#93
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:11:10 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote: B Vaughan wrote: Little children don't profit much from study of a second language, unless it's immersion study. And then it has to be maintained consistently or they forget it all again. They pick up languages a lot faster than older children do. The idea is to teach it and expand on the learning base, not to learn it and forget about it. However, teaching children the names of objects or how to count and sing a few songs in a foreign language does not make use of the language-learning centers of their brains. One year, I taught English for one hour a week to nursery school children here in Italy. They didn't pick it up any quicker than the adult learners in my evening school class and they had a strong Italian accent. Yet if those children had been put in a nursery school in an English speaking country, they would have been fluent in a few weeks, with no accent at all. The brain of a young child is programmed to learn a language quickly, but only if the language is learned in the way that's natural to a human being, that is immersion. -- Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup |
#94
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
"B Vaughan" wrote in message ... On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 23:13:08 +0200, Dave Frightens Me wrote: Chinese is next to useless, coz it's extremely difficult to master, Spoken Chinese is relatively easy, as it has almost no grammar. Written Chinese is difficult, but it's very useful because it's understood widely throughout Asia. and even by the Chinese is seen as an inferior language. Surely you're not serious! Chances are you will never need it in the business or social world. Japanese comes in a number of flavours, but is only used in Japan. Written Chinese is often used to communicate between Japanese/Koreans/Chinese, because they all have some familiarity with the Chinese characters, even though their spoken languages are very different. If you're in a mixed group of Asians, you'll often see them write Chinese characters on paper napkins, or even air-write them on their hands, to clarify what they're saying in English. Surely, the tonal elements of Chinese add an additional complexity on top of normal language learning? Surreyman |
#95
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On 24 Aug 2006 14:56:02 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:
Dave Frightens Me wrote: On 24 Aug 2006 11:21:12 -0700, "Iceman" wrote: Chinese, Japanese, Brazilian Portuguese, and maybe Arabic or Russian are more valuable than French or German. And even many universities don't offer all of those languages. Chinese is next to useless, coz it's extremely difficult to master, and even by the Chinese is seen as an inferior language. Chances are you will never need it in the business or social world. You have to be totally fluent in Chinese before it is any commercial use - but people who are fluent and who have law, business, IT, etc. skills are in huge demand. I have spent quite some time in Hong Kong, and never needed it, except for talking to someone poorly educated, like a taxi driver or waitress. And Portuguese is only of value in Portugal and Brazil. But Brazil is a huge market, and there are far fewer Portuguese-speakers in the US than Spanish-speakers. And it isn't the huge pain in the ass to learn that the Asian languages or Arabic are. Especially if you already know another romance language. I can read Portuguese, and usually pick up the gist of what they are saying. In summation, there really isn't an obvious second language to learn in the world, unless you want to move to a specific place. Well, in my field, law, and in the closely related field, finance, there is a lot of demand for people who speak those languages to be based out of New York or London, and only make occasional trips to China, Brazil, Russia, etc. Even a lot of Western professionals who are "in region" are based out of cities like Dubai or Hong Kong rather than Cairo or Guangzhou. It's clearly not for everyone, and you have to be willing to put in the work to become totally fluent in a difficult language and to make repeated trips to developing countries. But for someone who does have an interest in those countries or cultures, fluency in one of those languages is far more of a commercial advantage than fluent French or German would be. Yes, you're probably right. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
#96
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:25:23 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote: Hatunen wrote in : In Canada, if a job posting calls for applicants to be bilingual, it means French and English. You mean Quebecoise and English. You mean Québecois and American. Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few different nouns, and a different accent! -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
#97
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 06:26:08 +0200, Wolfgang Schwanke
wrote: Dave Smith wrote in : It's funny, but I took French in high school, had s few immersion experiences, have spent time in Quebec and France, and had work dealt with some Quebecois and some real French people. I can understand French in France. I can actually communicate with people there and understand what they are telling me. When French Canadians speak their French to me it sounds like a different language. You do realise that many people who learn English at school have similar problems in North America? I don't believe that. It only takes a couple of days at the most to tune your ears to a different accent. -- --- DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com --- -- |
#98
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few different nouns, and a different accent! And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as in "A couple Eurostar questions". Ian |
#99
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Dave Frightens Me wrote:
Especially if you already know another romance language. I can read Portuguese, and usually pick up the gist of what they are saying. Really ? I haven't formally studied any other neolatin language but my mother tongue italian however ... - I can read french since ever (one of my essays at the end of high school 30 odd years ago was on the philosophy of mathematics in Henri Poincare' which I read in original) but I do not dare to write it. I can somehow follow spoken french specially on familiar topics, but I do not dare to speak (recently at an astronomical project meeting when only french, belgian and italians remained, the majority of the people switched to french, with the presentation on the screen in english, I followed, and interacted in english) - I can read spanish but I do not dare to write it. I can follow spoken spanish although I've often the impression is spoken too fast (faster than italian). I may even dare speak (once in Chile I had to train laser machine operators at ESO, which I did in an invented spanish arranged from italian ... successfully) - I can read portuguese and other languages (catalan, or italian dialects) with decent understanding ... ... BUT I had the definite impression that spoken portuguese (in Portugal) was almost not understandable, not because of the speed, but because so many sounds were altered or perturbed with respect to the written form -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- is a newsreading account used by more persons to avoid unwanted spam. Any mail returning to this address will be rejected. Users can disclose their e-mail address in the article if they wish so. |
#100
|
|||
|
|||
Bilingual in Europe versus USA
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:41:00 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)"
wrote: Mxsmanic wrote: Students don't make the connection between academic study of languages and real cultures that give rise to them. They do if the languages are properly taught! From the (anecdotal) point of view of an English teacher who dealt with inbound students to the UK, and, as a qualified guide, also took them on cultural tours, I'd agree generally with Evelyn's assertion. It was interesting to see groups arriving with the teachers from their own countries. It didn't seem to matter where the groups came from: enthusiastic teachers tended to engender enthusiastic students. However, there is also the attitude of students to take into account. Some were studying English because it was part of their course, full stop.They were in the UK because they had to be. Whilst rarely resentful, they took little interest in their surroundings. The age factor and is also important: younger students wanted to go shopping rather than visit historic monuments. Keith, Bristol, UK Email: usenet[dot]20[dot]keefy[at]spamgourmet[dot]com This is a sp*mtrap, but I will get your mail! |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
rec.travel.europe FAQ | Yves Bellefeuille | Europe | 0 | August 30th, 2005 05:27 AM |
rec.travel.europe FAQ | Yves Bellefeuille | Europe | 0 | November 28th, 2004 05:17 AM |
rec.travel.europe FAQ | Yves Bellefeuille | Europe | 0 | January 16th, 2004 09:20 AM |
rec.travel.europe FAQ | Yves Bellefeuille | Travel - anything else not covered | 0 | December 15th, 2003 09:49 AM |
rec.travel.europe FAQ | Yves Bellefeuille | Europe | 0 | October 10th, 2003 09:44 AM |