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#11
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Beware - credit card rip-off
Olivers wrote:
Outside the 3rd World and big chunks of the developed Middle East, I suspect the day of the small currency exchanges and small money traders may be almost gone. Bizarrely, I still see huge clumps of people at exchange booths in airports everywhere - even Americans in the DEPARTURE section of US airports, where it makes the least sense - so it seems like they might have a little wind yet left in their sails. miguel -- Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu |
#12
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Beware - credit card rip-off
You suppose that some underpaid sales associate in the U.S. has *any*
control over the POS ( Point Of Sale, NOT Piece Of S**t ;-) )system their employer uses? Geez, give me a break. If you have a problem, notify the store management or corporate entity ( if there is one ). It is not reasonable to expect a clerk to "ask you which currency you want to be bill in", because they often times have *no control* over the transaction processing ( speaking from first-hand experience ). LH "Andy Pandy" wrote in message ... There is a new "facility" you may encounter when paying by credit card in a foreign currency. The POS terminal identifies which country your credit card is from and conveniently converts the local currency into your home currency. Your credit card is then billed in your home currency rather than the local currency. Might sound helpful, but the catch is that the exchange rate at which the conversion is done is almost certainly a lot worse than your bank would use if you got billed in the local currency. The retailer usually gets a cut of the exchange rate markup so it's in their interest to bill you in your home currency. They are supposed to ask you which currency you want to billed in, but it practice it doesn't always happen, and the default is to bill you in your home currency. But you are perfectly entitled to insist you are billed in the local currency, after all the product or service will have been priced in the local currency. Don't let retailers rip you off in this way! -- Andy |
#13
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Beware - credit card rip-off
Alec wrote:
"Andy Pandy" wrote in message ... There is a new "facility" you may encounter when paying by credit card in a foreign currency. The POS terminal identifies which country your credit card is from and conveniently converts the local currency into your home currency. Your credit card is then billed in your home currency rather than the local currency. Might sound helpful, but the catch is that the exchange rate at which the conversion is done is almost certainly a lot worse than your bank would use if you got billed in the local currency. The retailer usually gets a cut of the exchange rate markup so it's in their interest to bill you in your home currency. They are supposed to ask you which currency you want to billed in, but it practice it doesn't always happen, and the default is to bill you in your home currency. But you are perfectly entitled to insist you are billed in the local currency, after all the product or service will have been priced in the local currency. Don't let retailers rip you off in this way! It's called 'Dynamic Currency Conversion' in the trade-speak. It's touted among retailers and service providers (hotels, car rental firms etc) doing a lot of business with foreign visitors, and also on-line dealers. The card processors entice them with 'customer satisfaction' and 'extra income stream' (i.e. sharing exchange mark-up). First developed by the Irish firm Forexco, it's now offered globally and adopted by leading retailers like Harrods and international hotel groups. I now make the point of insisting before my card is swiped that I want to be charged in the local currency. Visa/Plus and Mastercard/Cirrus regulations stipulate that customer must be given a choice. If they still put through the transaction in the card's billing currency, refuse to sign the slip and ask them to void it. If they still refuse, tell them you'll ask your card issuer for a chargeback. Expect a dirty look or take your customs elsewhere. Alec That all sounds VERY strange. At least in the past the credit card companies ONLY allowed local currency billing. One guy I know went to South America and a guy in his hotel (who did not know the rules) were so horny for USD that he persuaded the guest to pay the hotel bill in USD via credit card. When coming back home to Europe he was very surprised to get a withdrawal of only a few EUR - why? The credit card company do not allow other than local billing, thus he paid in local currency and not USD. Cheap! the rate was about 100:1 or so. Wonder if this temporary hotel guy had to pay? /Anders -- Remove the obvious part before replying by mail please! |
#14
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Beware - credit card rip-off
That all sounds VERY strange. At least in the past the credit card companies ONLY allowed local currency billing. One guy I know went to South America and a guy in his hotel (who did not know the rules) were so horny for USD that he persuaded the guest to pay the hotel bill in USD via credit card. When coming back home to Europe he was very surprised to get a withdrawal of only a few EUR - why? The credit card company do not allow other than local billing, thus he paid in local currency and not USD. Cheap! the rate was about 100:1 or so. Wonder if this temporary hotel guy had to pay? Well in the past no one else did foreign exchange conversion other than Visa/Mastercard and your card issuer. But as the former started making a lot of profit out of it, by tacking on 2-3% conversion fee (1% by Visa/Master and the rest by card issuer, usually hidden in the rates used so not always obvious to cardholder), someone said. 'Hey, can't we get a slice of this lucrative market by doing the conversion upfront and keeping the transaction entirely in the card's billing currency?' Once they comply with Visa/Master rules by giving customers a 'choice' of billing currency, then the operation is entirely legitimate. For some cardholders, it must be said that they are no worse off as DCC rates are pretty in line with what they would get by traditional method as they are charged by card issuers (and might welcome the 'transparency' of knowing exactly how much it costs), but for others who hold a card with no foreign exchange fees (like Nationwide in UK and some credit unions in US), the loss can be as much as 3-3.5%. Alec |
#15
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Beware - credit card rip-off
"Olivers" wrote in message ... Given the amounts involved in individual CC transactions, the exchange rates which I have seen for about eleventy dozen times better than the "cash" exchange rates provided by either the two banks I worked for and as good as many of the commercial transcation rates available to traders and large coorporations. CCs have litereally revolutionized foreign exchange, with debit/ATM cards following to change even further the "Bad Old Days". At least with cash there is the excuse that there are costs involved with storing, handling and transporting foreign currency. There's virtually no cost in doing an electronic conversion from one currency to another, yet these rip-off merchants want about 3% or more. -- Andy |
#16
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Beware - credit card rip-off
"Lester Higgins" wrote in message ink.net... You suppose that some underpaid sales associate in the U.S. has *any* control over the POS ( Point Of Sale, NOT Piece Of S**t ;-) )system their employer uses? Geez, give me a break. If you have a problem, notify the store management or corporate entity ( if there is one ). It is not reasonable to expect a clerk to "ask you which currency you want to be bill in", because they often times have *no control* over the transaction processing ( speaking from first-hand experience ). If I stay in a hotel in Ireland that advertises they accept VISA and I have been quoted 100 EUR a night, then I will pay 100 EUR a night. I won't pay 70 GBP a night or 120 USD or anything else. The POS terminal *must* offer the option of payment in local currency. I think in restaurants if I ever get the local currency converted without my consent, I'll just accept it without a fuss but I'll consider the exchange rate markup as their tip. A lot less than the 10% (or 15-20% in the US) I usually leave, but if they try it on in this way they don't deserve a tip. -- Andy |
#17
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Beware - credit card rip-off
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 19:01:02 +0100 Andy Pandy
said... If I stay in a hotel in Ireland that advertises they accept VISA and I have been quoted 100 EUR a night, then I will pay 100 EUR a night. I won't pay 70 GBP a night or 120 USD or anything else. The POS terminal *must* offer the option of payment in local currency. I'm sure the POS terminal would offer the option of payment, the issue seems to be with the retailer or whoever. Possibly poor awareness or training, more than likely they can't be bothered to offer knowing if they get questioned "What difference does it make?" they'll end up charging in local currency as it is financially better for the customer. It seems to be the way is to be one step ahead of the retailer and ask whether they apply DCC before handing your card over. If the answer is "yes" or "don't know" then make it clear your requirements. The more customers become aware of this and raise it then more then hopefully retailers will be a little more forthcoming. -- Phil Richards London |
#18
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Beware - credit card rip-off
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 10:24:24 +0100 Alec
said... Once they comply with Visa/Master rules by giving customers a 'choice' of billing currency, then the operation is entirely legitimate. Thanks for clarifying this. Presumably then it's not down to the T&C or agreement the retailer has with their merchant bank who own their POS terminal? Saying to a retailer it's against their agreement not to be asked first with Visa or MasterCard might have a bit more ammunition. -- Phil Richards London |
#19
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Beware - credit card rip-off
Phil Richards wrote:
It seems to be the way is to be one step ahead of the retailer and ask whether they apply DCC before handing your card over. If the answer is "yes" or "don't know" then make it clear your requirements. The more customers become aware of this and raise it then more then hopefully retailers will be a little more forthcoming. Or sign up for a credit card in a country with an official exchange rate that differs substantially from the black market rate. Next time you're in Burma, get a Visa card from SLORC Savings & Loan and bring it back to Europe. Always request to pay in your home currency, then buy that currency on the black market to pay your credit card bill. You could save 90% on everything you buy! miguel -- Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu |
#20
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Beware - credit card rip-off
In message , Andy Pandy
writes There is a new "facility" you may encounter when paying by credit card in a foreign currency. The POS terminal identifies which country your credit card is from and conveniently converts the local currency into your home currency. Your credit card is then billed in your home currency rather than the local currency. Might sound helpful, but the catch is that the exchange rate at which the conversion is done is almost certainly a lot worse than your bank would use if you got billed in the local currency. The retailer usually gets a cut of the exchange rate markup so it's in their interest to bill you in your home currency. They are supposed to ask you which currency you want to billed in, but it practice it doesn't always happen, and the default is to bill you in your home currency. But you are perfectly entitled to insist you are billed in the local currency, after all the product or service will have been priced in the local currency. Don't let retailers rip you off in this way! -- Andy Oh blimey, now I'm really confused. My family and I are visiting Australia from the UK this August. We have been planning to take Nationwide credit & debit cards and a Visa card but very little cash. The idea was to draw cash off an ATM from the Nationwide account as and when necessary instead of taking and cashing travellers cheques. Naturally, we want a convenient way of settling bills without getting ripped off. Any suggestions on how we should proceed would be gratefully received. Cheers, Simon. |
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