Another warning to outback drivers.

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:
[deleted]
Their was a classic case at lake Ayre a few years ago when
a german couple got bogged down. They tried to walk out but
the man wised up and returned to the car. His companion
tried to walk out and died. Not only was there enough food
and water for a week in their campervan but they were
stuck next to a survival tank with 200 litres of water !

To be fair to these people:

- They *did* leave a note at the pub/hotel in Williams Creek, but the
son of the owner put it in a new logbook because he could not find the
old one and thought that it was full, and the father only knew/checked
the old one.

- They had been told that probably no-one was coming down that track for
*weeks*. What were they supposed to do, wait for weeks? (They *did*
wait several days.)


Yes, someone came down the track a week later and they waited less
than 48 hours. They got bogged on 7 December and decided to
walk out on the 9th. The policeman who recovered the vehicle
spent less than 10 minutes digging it out before letting some air
out of the tyres and unbogging it.

People often criticize people for leaving their vehicle, and they are
'right'. But not leaving your vehicle, i.e. doing *nothing*, is very,
very hard to do. Some compassion, especially when people *die* 'because'
of their 'mistakes', wouldn't go astray.

Compassion is fine but instilling wisdom might save a life.

Keith

On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:15:21 +1100, "Peter Webb"
wrote:

I cannot believe 50 people hadn't told him that rule by the time he found
himself in a 4WD in the Great Sandy Desert.

City-based, four wheel drivers are the bane of the bush - all
they have is what is under the bonnet. I am safer in my two wheel
drive HX panel van than they are. On one occasion I even showed a
bunch of them how to handle a situation. And probably the biggest
reason I am safer is the warning that comes before anything else -
check with locals before you go. And as to where you are going.

__________________________________________________ ____________
Keith Sayers, Canberra, Australia
Mail : 6 Clambe Place,
CHARNWOOD, ACT 2615 http://www.pcug.org.au/~kmsayers
--------------------------------------------------------------

And check with the locals as you go. Conditions can change rapidly. Although
it's no longer a requirement to let the police know if you're attempting a
remote track, if it's summer or you're on your own (and perhaps don't have
any friends/relatives to notify) it may be prudent to do so.
Cheers
Jim

"Keith Sayers" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 02:15:21 +1100, "Peter Webb"
wrote:

I cannot believe 50 people hadn't told him that rule by the time he found
himself in a 4WD in the Great Sandy Desert.

City-based, four wheel drivers are the bane of the bush - all
they have is what is under the bonnet. I am safer in my two wheel
drive HX panel van than they are. On one occasion I even showed a
bunch of them how to handle a situation. And probably the biggest
reason I am safer is the warning that comes before anything else -
check with locals before you go. And as to where you are going.

__________________________________________________ ____________
Keith Sayers, Canberra, Australia
Mail : 6 Clambe Place,
CHARNWOOD, ACT 2615 http://www.pcug.org.au/~kmsayers
--------------------------------------------------------------

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

People often criticize people for leaving their vehicle, and they are
'right'. But not leaving your vehicle, i.e. doing *nothing*, is very,
very hard to do. Some compassion, especially when people *die* 'because'
of their 'mistakes', wouldn't go astray.

Compassion is fine but instilling wisdom might save a life.

http://www.courts.sa.gov.au/courts/c...000/grossmuell
er.finding.htm
She still had water.

Walking in sun you should count on 1 litre per hour, walking
50km, say 25 litres, 25kg, if all goes well.

8-10 litres a day if 40C+ not moving. Also salt replacement.

One problem is that after 3 or 4 hours of high loss and drinking a lot
people just don't _feel_ thirsty.

So they quickly run an imbalance, only a few litres/hours later
disorientation sets in, stagger around, die. This is something that
can creep up on people even if they know full well what to look for.

Eg. one of my stuffups
Quietly working away, not even 40C , taking water and salt regularly,
then suddenly you notice you cannot see your hands when you look at them.
Not black, just not there, your blind spot is half your field of vision.
Something like that could so easily lead someone alone, in unfamiliar
territory without water a fridge and airconditioning handy into absolute
panic.

Just now it is 11:45 am 37C, forecast 39C. In the shade.
In the car driving free air temp is 39C, but on the seat
in the sun with good air flow the thermometer
(white reflective) reads 59C.
Thats what the environment is trying to get you to when
walking in the open.

Jim wrote:
And check with the locals as you go. Conditions can change rapidly. Although
it's no longer a requirement to let the police know if you're attempting a
remote track, if it's summer or you're on your own (and perhaps don't have
any friends/relatives to notify) it may be prudent to do so.
Cheers
Jim

Not only is it no longer a requirement, but in many places the police
do no longer offer these services. I think that is a shame because in
may cases the police is the only readly available reliable contact. This
makes it hard, especially for tourists from abroad (like myself). When
you are in the bush, it is not easy to contact someone some 16,000km
(and many timezones) away and keep them posted on your travel plans and
progress. So our just finished trip we our EPIRB [1] was a 'neccessary'
item.

[1] And the nice doctor on the Oodnadatta track had a sat-phone, so he
could call Oodnadatta and ask if the track was really still open, for we
and him thought it should be closed (with us 'stuck' on it)! :-(

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
And check with the locals as you go. Conditions can change rapidly.
Although
it's no longer a requirement to let the police know if you're attempting
a
remote track, if it's summer or you're on your own (and perhaps don't
have
any friends/relatives to notify) it may be prudent to do so.
Cheers
Jim

Not only is it no longer a requirement, but in many places the police
do no longer offer these services. I think that is a shame because in
may cases the police is the only readly available reliable contact. This
makes it hard, especially for tourists from abroad (like myself). When
you are in the bush, it is not easy to contact someone some 16,000km
(and many timezones) away and keep them posted on your travel plans and
progress. So our just finished trip we our EPIRB [1] was a 'neccessary'
item.

[1] And the nice doctor on the Oodnadatta track had a sat-phone, so he
could call Oodnadatta and ask if the track was really still open, for we
and him thought it should be closed (with us 'stuck' on it)! :-(

I spoke with a copper a few years ago about using them as a contact and he
was adamant that it was a waste of his time. Rarely would someone check back
in with him and say they had got to XYZ and were OK. I think that EPIRBs are
the best option - they are taken seriously by search and rescue and will get
help into the right area very quickly.

However travelling in the Outback alone (one person or even one vehicle) for
inexperienced travellers can still be very dangerous especially when high
temperatures are involved.

--
www.bribieisland4x4hire.com
VW Kombi Camper Buy Backs
Landcruiser Troopy - Toyota Hilux Crew Cab
Mitsubishi Pajero - Landrover V8 Swag Camper

in article , Roger Martin at
wrote on 12/16/03 2:55 PM:


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
And check with the locals as you go. Conditions can change rapidly.
Although
it's no longer a requirement to let the police know if you're attempting
a
remote track, if it's summer or you're on your own (and perhaps don't
have
any friends/relatives to notify) it may be prudent to do so.
Cheers
Jim

Not only is it no longer a requirement, but in many places the police
do no longer offer these services. I think that is a shame because in
may cases the police is the only readly available reliable contact. This
makes it hard, especially for tourists from abroad (like myself). When
you are in the bush, it is not easy to contact someone some 16,000km
(and many timezones) away and keep them posted on your travel plans and
progress. So our just finished trip we our EPIRB [1] was a 'neccessary'
item.

[1] And the nice doctor on the Oodnadatta track had a sat-phone, so he
could call Oodnadatta and ask if the track was really still open, for we
and him thought it should be closed (with us 'stuck' on it)! :-(

I spoke with a copper a few years ago about using them as a contact and he
was adamant that it was a waste of his time. Rarely would someone check back
in with him and say they had got to XYZ and were OK. I think that EPIRBs are
the best option - they are taken seriously by search and rescue and will get
help into the right area very quickly.

However travelling in the Outback alone (one person or even one vehicle) for
inexperienced travellers can still be very dangerous especially when high
temperatures are involved.


I'm more partial to a satphone than an EPIRB. All the latter will do is
send a signal - it won't say what the problem is or convey any info (vehicle
problem, injury, etc.) The fines for "unnecessary" activation is also
massive. A satphone might get someone on the other end of the line who can
get you moving again without even coming out a thousand km in the first
place...

And a radio can ofen get you help from over the next dune from a party that
you didn't know existed )

Cheers
Jim
"Raffi Balmanoukian" a
wrote in message
news:BC04DAEC.1E700%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca...
in article , Roger Martin at
wrote on 12/16/03 2:55 PM:


"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
...
Jim wrote:
And check with the locals as you go. Conditions can change rapidly.
Although
it's no longer a requirement to let the police know if you're
attempting
a
remote track, if it's summer or you're on your own (and perhaps don't
have
any friends/relatives to notify) it may be prudent to do so.
Cheers
Jim

Not only is it no longer a requirement, but in many places the police
do no longer offer these services. I think that is a shame because in
may cases the police is the only readly available reliable contact.
This
makes it hard, especially for tourists from abroad (like myself). When
you are in the bush, it is not easy to contact someone some 16,000km
(and many timezones) away and keep them posted on your travel plans and
progress. So our just finished trip we our EPIRB [1] was a 'neccessary'
item.

[1] And the nice doctor on the Oodnadatta track had a sat-phone, so he
could call Oodnadatta and ask if the track was really still open, for
we
and him thought it should be closed (with us 'stuck' on it)! :-(

I spoke with a copper a few years ago about using them as a contact and
he
was adamant that it was a waste of his time. Rarely would someone check
back
in with him and say they had got to XYZ and were OK. I think that EPIRBs
are
the best option - they are taken seriously by search and rescue and will
get
help into the right area very quickly.

However travelling in the Outback alone (one person or even one vehicle)
for
inexperienced travellers can still be very dangerous especially when
high
temperatures are involved.


I'm more partial to a satphone than an EPIRB. All the latter will do is
send a signal - it won't say what the problem is or convey any info
(vehicle
problem, injury, etc.) The fines for "unnecessary" activation is also
massive. A satphone might get someone on the other end of the line who
can
get you moving again without even coming out a thousand km in the first
place...

Raffi Balmanoukian a wrote:
[deleted]
I'm more partial to a satphone than an EPIRB. All the latter will do is
send a signal - it won't say what the problem is or convey any info (vehicle
problem, injury, etc.) The fines for "unnecessary" activation is also
massive. A satphone might get someone on the other end of the line who can
get you moving again without even coming out a thousand km in the first
place...

Can you give some indication about satphone costs, i.e. rental (if
purchase is too expensive), subscription cost, usage cost, etc.? For us
a radio is not practical because we rent our vehicle/campervan and most
rental companies can/do not provide radios.

in article , Frank Slootweg at
lid wrote on 12/17/03 12:07 PM:

Raffi Balmanoukian a wrote:
[deleted]
I'm more partial to a satphone than an EPIRB. All the latter will do is
send a signal - it won't say what the problem is or convey any info (vehicle
problem, injury, etc.) The fines for "unnecessary" activation is also
massive. A satphone might get someone on the other end of the line who can
get you moving again without even coming out a thousand km in the first
place...

Can you give some indication about satphone costs, i.e. rental (if
purchase is too expensive), subscription cost, usage cost, etc.? For us
a radio is not practical because we rent our vehicle/campervan and most
rental companies can/do not provide radios.


I was actually shouted mine by a sponsor (just paid the airtime). The
Australian affiliate is Vodaphone and there should be a website with hire
fees, etc.