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France, the culture wars over head scarves
This is a ongoing battle in France over the head scarves. Some wish to ban them in schools or worn by public employees. Slightly more (49%) of the Muslim women in France were polled to be AGAINST the wearing of the scarves than for (41%). So the idea that this is purely a conflict between the Christian and Muslim communities is not exactly true. There is a lot of pressure from the Muslim religious right for ALL Muslim women to wear the scarves. One is not a "good" Muslim girl or woman unless one wears one. The conflict can also occur within the family with the males backing the wearing of the scarves, the teenage girls, sometimes their mothers not. That becomes a problem of parental or husband-wife authority. So there has been nasty exchanges within in the same community. A considerable portion of the young musulmanes are for integration into French culture and don`t want to be identified with the backwardness implied by wearing the scarves. So we have a ³sisterly² conflict. There is no solution to this conflict except time. With regard to the ethnic French community, there are a variety of attitudes opposing the scarf wearing. 1) Some, as with the Front National, are basically anti-immigrant. Ethnically nationalist, they would like all foreigners to "go home". That most of the young Arab community in France were born and raised here has not sank into their mentalities. 2) Some French are basically conformist. Anybody who is born here and grows up, must receive a French education, speak and write in France and behave as French. There is no particular room for ethnic diversity in this group. 3) Some have a strong republican attitude, anti-clerical. The nation has a large non-religious majority. They don`t go to church nor have strong religious beliefs. For them there should be no religious display, no crosses or head displays from which a persons religious beliefs are evident in school or in public service. On the street is a different thing. There are no Christians, Jews or Muslims in school for this group. 4) Educators don`t like displays and especially anything which interfers with their educational mission. That mission is to put out ethnically French students, white, black or brown, they must be French all educated in the same manner. So how do Muslims girls take the required swimming lessons with scarves on? The Islamic religious right does not want their girls in bathing suits much less without their scarves! Other sports activities are hard to participate in with scarves on. The religious right do not want their girls taking biology classes where sex is discussed. 5) French feminists view the scarves as a symbol of religious repression, so they are against it. This "repression" issue also exists with a portion of the French left. On the other side of the fence one has those who are for freedom of religion and expression. Whatever, the issue is not simple, the culture war wages. Earl |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
Following up to Earl Evleth
4) Educators don`t like displays and especially anything which interfers with their educational mission. That mission is to put out ethnically French students, white, black or brown, they must be French all educated in the same manner. what happens with orthodox jews and sikhs? -- Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site and same for Spain at "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap |
#3
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
Earl Evleth writes:
Whatever, the issue is not simple, the culture war wages. The only party without an opinion is God. -- Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly. |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:02:55 +0100, Earl Evleth
wrote: This is a ongoing battle in France over the head scarves. Some wish to ban them in schools or worn by public employees. Slightly more (49%) of the Muslim women in France were polled to be AGAINST the wearing of the scarves than for (41%). So the idea that this is purely a conflict between the Christian and Muslim communities is not exactly true. As far as I'm concerned, the government should make no rules about the wearing of any religious garb unless absolutely necessary. I can see that it would be necessary to forbid the wearing of a face veil for an identity card photo and it might be necessary to forbid wearing a Roman toga while on duty as a firefighter. However, in the case of headscarves (or yarmulkes) in school, I don't see any reason why the government or the school should have anything to say about it. The fact that many Muslims don't want to wear veils is irrelevant. If many young Catholics don't want to go to Mass, the government has no reason to outlaw going to Mass. 4) Educators don`t like displays and especially anything which interfers with their educational mission. That mission is to put out ethnically French students, white, black or brown, they must be French all educated in the same manner. In other words, ethnically French means purged of all ethnic diversity? This is the same sort of reasoning that led France to forbid parents in Brittany giving Breton names to their children. So how do Muslims girls take the required swimming lessons with scarves on? The Islamic religious right does not want their girls in bathing suits much less without their scarves! Other sports activities are hard to participate in with scarves on. The religious right do not want their girls taking biology classes where sex is discussed. In a diverse society, schools have to do their best to accommodate the beliefs of their various minorities. When I was a child, my family belonged to a small religious sect that forbid dancing. My school had folk dances classes as part of physical education. I was exempted from these classes. Other children were Jehovah's Witnesses and were exempt from the "saluting of the flag", an exercise that was almost universal in my childhood but that had disappeared by the time my children were in school. In Pennsylvania, where I grew up, Amish children weren't supposed to go to school beyond elementary school. This was a tough one, but the state compromised by requiring the Amish families to send their children to their (private) elementary schools until the eighth grade and then to organize formal "apprenticeship" training at home for another two years, for instance on the family farm. More recently, a young girl in New Jersey who was a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist won in court the right to be able to study biology without having to dissect animals. The court ordered the school to find some other way of teaching her anatomy, for instance with computer simulations. As far as I'm concerned, this tension between private beliefs and public duties is a healthy one. However, there has to be debate and compromise. I don't understand why only France has this huge problem with its Muslim students. Other European countries have dealt with this problem much more flexibly. ----------- Barbara Vaughan My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 15:26:38 +0100, B Vaughan wrote:
More recently, a young girl in New Jersey who was a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist won in court the right to be able to study biology without having to dissect animals. The court ordered the school to find some other way of teaching her anatomy, for instance with computer simulations. I studied Biology at university from 1978 in the UK, we had disections and other practicals to do that some might find unpleasant or unethical. Nothing was compulsory. Either they could just watch someone else do it, or come to some agreement with the staff to learn the anatomy. Computer simulations were non-existent in those days. I didn't think that was particularly unusual even then. When you say "recently" and "won the right" worries me that this sort of attitude is still common. Even at secondary school in Biology lessons we weren't forced to do anything like that (although, most of us boys were chomping at the bit to collect beakersfull of saliva, throw half-dissected bulls-eyes around the room and slip a skinned lab-rat in to other pupils' school bags). -- Tim. If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would be so simple that we couldn't. |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
B staggered to the nearest keyboard and wrote:
As far as I'm concerned, this tension between private beliefs and public duties is a healthy one. However, there has to be debate and compromise. I don't understand why only France has this huge problem with its Muslim students. Other European countries have dealt with this problem much more flexibly. Probably for the same reason that the Academie Française worries over the incursion of terms such as "email" into the language; and the same reason that French Canadians go around with rulers to make sure that on bilingual signs the font on the French version is not smaller than the font on the English version. (Yes, they really do this.) The obsession of the French with preserving their language and culture against outside influence is something many of us find difficult to comprehend, but in the end it's their own business. -- hambu n hambu hodo |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
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#9
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
On 11/12/03 15:26, in article , "B
Vaughan" wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:02:55 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote: I will comment on those items I felt commenting necessary. If many young Catholics don't want to go to Mass, the government has no reason to outlaw going to Mass. The other items were about excluding visible signs of religious association, which applies to Christians also as well as any political declartion (like political buttons for a particular party, etc). What one does outside the school wearing scarves or going to mass is not covered under these kinds of laws. If the Moslem girls want to put their scarves on on leaving the school grounds, nobody is trying to control that. 4) Educators don`t like displays and especially anything which interfers with their educational mission. That mission is to put out ethnically French students, white, black or brown, they must be French all educated in the same manner. In other words, ethnically French means purged of all ethnic diversity? This is the same sort of reasoning that led France to forbid parents in Brittany giving Breton names to their children. France has a list of names which you can give you children, yes. I don`t know of Breton or Basque names are forbidden? This is the first time I have heard of that. Do you have any information on that law and how the EU situation might have changed it. I gave a quick look on the www.google.fr and found nothing quickly. So how do Muslims girls take the required swimming lessons with scarves on? The Islamic religious right does not want their girls in bathing suits much less without their scarves! Other sports activities are hard to participate in with scarves on. The religious right do not want their girls taking biology classes where sex is discussed. In a diverse society, schools have to do their best to accommodate the beliefs of their various minorities. First, sports are considered part of the normal program. Swimming is for safety reasons, or so claimed. Are they not to be expose to the theory of evolution because it might offend religious sensitivities? Or the flat earth people. Should society protect the rights of parents to keep their children ignorant? Or is it the responsibility of the collectivity to pass over the "rights of the parent" to protect the "rights of the child" to be educated in the best manner society seems fit? Unfortunately there is no easy answer to these questions. Totalitarians societies will override the rights of the parents but so will "liberal" societies who don`t want culturally crippled children. More recently, a young girl in New Jersey who was a committed vegetarian and animal rights activist won in court the right to be able to study biology without having to dissect animals. I never liked that part of the course either, especially when we killed a live frog. Am I am not a kook in that regard. I don`t remember having learned anything earth shaking from that experiment. I think we should avoid cruelty in all forms. This include the cruelty of enforced exclusion. The Arabs In France are quite sensitized by the Arabophobia present in the country (and in the US also) and some see the scarf issue as really an attack in the Islamic and Arab community in France. I have commented here before that anti-Arab prejudices in France are far greater than anti-Semitic sentiments in spite of the support in France for the Palestinian people. So France is going to have a hard time working through this particular issue. It is not a black and white situation however, which is why I posted this item to expose the complexity of the issue. Earl |
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France, the culture wars over head scarves
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