Legacy airlines should have smashed their unions long ago

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:36:05 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote:

Salim al-Hukmatyr wrote:

This expectation by militant unions of prosperity no matter what has
doomed the major carriers.

They destroyed steel and cars. Now they are destroying an industry --
domestic flights, at least -- that didn't even have foreign
competition.

Unions are a scourge, a bane, and a plague.

And look what they did to Enron.
Oops. Sorry, that was crooked business practices.

Not to mention that damned eight hour day, five day week and medical
insurance that no one would have if unions hadn't fought for it in the
first place. The dirty *******s!

Anyway, it was deregulation that destroyed the airlines. Airlines
never made a profit without monopolies on routes granted by
governments. Now that it's cutthroat we have exactly what the
airlines asked for, but what will we have when only one line is left
standing? Amtrak with wings. (And don't think the foreign airlines
are in any better condition.)

Brian

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
Bert Hyman wrote:

Unions are a scourge, a bane, and a plague.

And look what they did to Enron.
Oops. Sorry, that was crooked business practices.

While I don't agree with the original poster, I have to ask you if you
think that unions aren't businesses, and aren't involved in practices
just
as crooked as anything Enron ever dreamed of.

Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.

Keith

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
Bert Hyman wrote:

Unions are a scourge, a bane, and a plague.

And look what they did to Enron.
Oops. Sorry, that was crooked business practices.

While I don't agree with the original poster, I have to ask you if you
think that unions aren't businesses, and aren't involved in practices
just
as crooked as anything Enron ever dreamed of.

Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.

Keith

Keith Willshaw wrote:


Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.


Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when unions had to get support from
criminals because companies were hiring their own guns to beat the crap out of
labour organizers. Times have changed. A lot of us have incomes, working
conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think unions. There
are a lot more business woes that can be attributed to corporate greed and
underhanded deals than were caused by having a unionized work force.

Keith Willshaw wrote:


Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.


Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when unions had to get support from
criminals because companies were hiring their own guns to beat the crap out of
labour organizers. Times have changed. A lot of us have incomes, working
conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think unions. There
are a lot more business woes that can be attributed to corporate greed and
underhanded deals than were caused by having a unionized work force.

Dave Smith wrote:



Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions
are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic
and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan
comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.


Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when unions had to get support
from
criminals because companies were hiring their own guns to beat the crap
out of
labour organizers. Times have changed. A lot of us have incomes, working
conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think unions.
There
are a lot more business woes that can be attributed to corporate greed and
underhanded deals than were caused by having a unionized work force.



A lot of anti - union folks I guess just think that all the nice things some
workers have (a minimum wage, safety standards, a 40 hour week, health
plans, pensions, etc.) just sprang up as a result of spontaneous
generation...or as a result of corporate largess. It's just plain
ignorance.

Corporations practice behaviours that in an individual would get them
diagnosed as *psychopaths*...

These things had to be fought for...many workers paid with their lives. It
wasn't *that* long ago that companies sometimes had workers shot dead if
they dared to strike or protest - think the Republic Steel massacre here in
Chicago in 1937.

Believe me, most businesses would just LOVE to treat their employees like
Walmart does theirs, e.g. penurious pay, no health care, etc. It's bad
enough that we still have virtual slave labor conditions in some places here
in the US, with peonage being widely practiced (think of the plight of poor
workers at Korean delis and food stores in New York and the movement to at
least get them paid a *minimum* wage for the 60+ hours they work). A good
union helps to improve the standard of life of it's workers.

--
Best
Greg

Dave Smith wrote:



Do you mean to ask if they are all just as crooked as Enron? I suppose
that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of unions
are
eligible to run for executive positions, but too many are apathetic
and
they
get stuck with executives who may pull shady deals. Ronald Reagan
comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.



Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a union leader with a shady history.


Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when unions had to get support
from
criminals because companies were hiring their own guns to beat the crap
out of
labour organizers. Times have changed. A lot of us have incomes, working
conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think unions.
There
are a lot more business woes that can be attributed to corporate greed and
underhanded deals than were caused by having a unionized work force.



A lot of anti - union folks I guess just think that all the nice things some
workers have (a minimum wage, safety standards, a 40 hour week, health
plans, pensions, etc.) just sprang up as a result of spontaneous
generation...or as a result of corporate largess. It's just plain
ignorance.

Corporations practice behaviours that in an individual would get them
diagnosed as *psychopaths*...

These things had to be fought for...many workers paid with their lives. It
wasn't *that* long ago that companies sometimes had workers shot dead if
they dared to strike or protest - think the Republic Steel massacre here in
Chicago in 1937.

Believe me, most businesses would just LOVE to treat their employees like
Walmart does theirs, e.g. penurious pay, no health care, etc. It's bad
enough that we still have virtual slave labor conditions in some places here
in the US, with peonage being widely practiced (think of the plight of poor
workers at Korean delis and food stores in New York and the movement to at
least get them paid a *minimum* wage for the 60+ hours they work). A good
union helps to improve the standard of life of it's workers.

--
Best
Greg

anon wrote:
The industry will exist and it will be profitable. It is not going to be
destroyed. Some companies might be destroyed, but there will be
survivors. Are you aware of the contributions that unions have made to
this country?

Everyone expects that no matter what job he gets, he will have a house, 2.7
cars, 1.7 children, VCR/DVD/TV/computer/microwave and live like the rich and
famous even if he is just a bus driver. This social phenomema has been made
possible because Unions have, over time, made it possible for workers to
really raise their standard of living and made bus drivers live the same way
as accountants.

But now, the problem is that corporations are just moving production to other
countries where labour costs are lower and where people are happy if they get
2 meals a day and a basic roof to keep their mattress dry.

anon wrote:
The industry will exist and it will be profitable. It is not going to be
destroyed. Some companies might be destroyed, but there will be
survivors. Are you aware of the contributions that unions have made to
this country?

Everyone expects that no matter what job he gets, he will have a house, 2.7
cars, 1.7 children, VCR/DVD/TV/computer/microwave and live like the rich and
famous even if he is just a bus driver. This social phenomema has been made
possible because Unions have, over time, made it possible for workers to
really raise their standard of living and made bus drivers live the same way
as accountants.

But now, the problem is that corporations are just moving production to other
countries where labour costs are lower and where people are happy if they get
2 meals a day and a basic roof to keep their mattress dry.

Here in rec.travel.air,
(Salim al-Hukmatyr) spake unto us, saying:

Unions are a scourge, a bane, and a plague.

Unfortunately, they're nowhere near as destructive (at least in the
short run) to the airlines as fuel prices have been...

--
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