JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News

Imya Rek wrote:

Michael Voight rogue Cisco employee disguised as mrtravelkay
trolled:


Peter T. Daniels wrote:


127.0.0.1 wrote:


On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:39:08 +0100, Tim Kynerd
wrote:



Sorry, Robert, but there's no logical reason why people who pay to park
shouldn't also pay to ride AirTrain to and from the parking lots. Parking
is one service; AirTrain is another.

they pay for it via the parking fees


Yo idiot,

By now three people have pointed out that if parking fees didn't go up
the day Airtrain opened, then parkers are not paying for Airtrain.

But no one has answered whether they did or not.

What form of transit did they use to get to the parking lot before
Airtrain? Was there a charge for it?


**** off asshole! Stop asking so many retarded questions, idiot!

LOL.............
Yeah man, I'm the retarded one, but you can't make a connection between
a question about whether they paid to get to the parking lot before is
relative they pay to get to the parking lot after the mode of transport
has changed.

You might have missed it.... You can't stop me from posting, and the
more nonsense you post, the more you lose credibility.

"Arnold Reinhold" wrote in message
om...
The point is that both airports are about the same size, buth have
connections from Penn Station that are comparible in price, frequency and
convienience, but only one (Newark) is publicized there.

Just goes to show how pathetic the Port Authority is. Imagine, the Port
Authority makes another agency like NJ Transit look good. Wow!

"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
...
the ride to the parking lot is paid for with parking fees

And it was for many years. All that while the employees got a completely
free ride, thanks to the long-term parkers. But did anybody say anything for
25 years? Not in these parts.

"Clark F. Morris, Jr." writes:

On the Airtrain, 5 dollars could well be reasonable for the line to
Jamaica since it is well outside the boundary of the airport and it
could be justified at a higher price per round trip than the implied
amount for the parking lot cost (3 dollars or less) because of the
greater cost. The same can not be said for the connection to the A
train. Apparently the connection point is very close to a normal
remote parking lot stop.

Very close? It's the same stop!

There are two AirTrain stations serving the long term parking lot:
Lefferts Boulevard and Howard Beach.

That's right, Howard Beach. The same station that connects with the
subway.

There are two station exits, one to the parking lot and one to the
subway and neighborhood. Only the latter has faregates. Even the
direct /walking/ route from Howard Beach (the neighborhood or the
subway station) to the airport now has a $5 fee in each direction.

Thus a round trip price of over 3 dollars is unjustified since that
is greater than the feel to park at that location and ride the Air
train. The Jamaica connection is clearly off property (at least a
mile and probably a lot more) while the A train connection is on
property or very close to on property as I understand it.
Clarifications from others are welcome.

It's about three miles from the terminals to Jamaica.
--
David J. Greenberger
New York, NY

(Steven M. O'Neill) writes:

It's also possible that the parkers were previously paying for
some or all of the free shuttle bus that served the subway and
the parking lots. /pure speculation

The past is the past. Currently, depending on the durations of their
trips and how many people are traveling together, some parkers manage
to pay less to park the car and then ride AirTrain than they would to
only ride AirTrain.

According to an old version of the AirTrain website (the current one
doesn't address these issues at all), "Once the system is operating,
it will pay for itself; operating revenues are expected to exceed
operating costs." In other words, the (projected) 11,000 farepaying
riders -- in particular, the fraction of that 11,000 (I don't have the
breakdown) who don't qualify for discounted 30-day passes -- are
covering the operating costs of the remaining 23,000 riders.

On a related note, I did, a few weeks ago, take the B15 (?) bus to
the airport, take a free round trip on the Air Train and then took
the Q10 (?) to Kew Gardens to get on the subway. The bus stops are
not marked at all from an arriving passengers perspective, but the
first employee that I asked knew right where it was.

The Q3 and B15 will lose their terminal circuit, stopping only at
Federal Circle and Terminal 4. I don't know if the Q10 will follow
suit, but I expect it most likely will. Transfer to AirTrain for
service to the other terminals. Can't make it too convenient to get
to the airport at standard transit prices!
--
David J. Greenberger
New York, NY

"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:55:12 -0500, "Sancho Panza"
wrote:


"127.0.0.1" wrote in message
.. .
the ride to the parking lot is paid for with parking fees

And it was for many years. All that while the employees got a completely
free ride, thanks to the long-term parkers. But did anybody say anything
for
25 years? Not in these parts.


freeloaders never say anything, and motorists are so used to being
ripped off they are desensitized to it

Free parking for generally low wage jobs? Count that in as part of the
limited compensation package. I'm assuming there are more baggage
handlers, food service workers, and mop pushers in that group than airline
pilots. It's part of pushing down the price of airport services for
travelers.

"127.0.0.1" wrote:
freeloaders never say anything, and motorists are so used to being
ripped off they are desensitized to it

The problem with mass transit is that except in a few rare cases, it is a long
term society decision as opposed to a short term financial/profit decision.

As cities grow, they need greater transport infrastructure. That can be done
either by building more highways which cut off parts of a city from each
other, take up large amounts of valuable land and generate noise-pollution or
by building rapid transit systems.

Many governments outside of north america have taken serious steps to curb the
use of a personal car. Such governments have no problems fostering use of
rapid transit to airport because they also have some contrtol over airport and
can dictate that the airport not focus on providing parking spaces. And guess
what ? The citizens and visitors have gotten used to that and don't complain.

You need a strong central administration to corrdonate airport finances with
rapid transit finances as well a highway finances. When you have a
decentralised government, then the savings from not building that extra
federal highway can't easily be transfered to the city budgets to finance
buying extra rolling stock for their mass transit system.

JFK is a good example of this. They doN't want to cannabalise the parking
revenus, so they charge those who come in by mass transit a parking fee. And
because the airport transit system isn't from the same level of government as
the other 2 rapid transit systems, they are not integrated.


If you go to places such as Amsterdam, Zürich, Hong Kong etc, then you find
the transit very well integrated with the airport. Sydney may have the trains
on the same track, but the fees charges when you use the Sydney airporty train
stations are excessively high because those statiosn aren't quite integrated
with the rest of the network and you need to pay a separate fee for the
different owners of the station/tunnels.

"John Mara" wrote in message
...

"Arnold Reinhold" wrote in message
om...

Problems on the AirTrain

The AirTrain itself is not as user friendly as it might be. Stops are
announced in English inside the cars, but only the airport terminal
number is given. There is a smallish card on each car listing the
eight terminals and the airlines they serve.

Announcements in languages other than English would be a good idea but I'm
not sure what languages you would pick.


English, French and Spanish might give some good coverage. Far East
travelers would generally expect to have to know some English.

Better yet, isn't there just a video display inside the cars announcing
that?
If not, there should be. Displaying numerals and names should give
travelers enough time to figure out what matches the printed travel
itinerary
in their hands.

"nobody" wrote in message
...
That can be done either by building more highways which cut off parts of a
city from each other, take up large amounts of valuable land and generate
noise-pollution or by building rapid transit systems.

Is that saying in other words the rapid mass transit, most likely rail, does
not create or add to any of those problems? That is patently not accurate.

Such governments have no problems fostering use of rapid transit to airport
because they also have some contrtol over airport and can dictate that the
airport not focus on providing parking spaces.

The States of New York and New Jersey DO have direct control over the Port
Authority. They choose not to use it for a wide variety of reasons,
including patronage and financial gain.

They charge those who come in by mass transit a parking fee.

If they did include the parking fee, the charge would be $10, not $5. As it
stands, the reverse has been the fact for more than 20 years.

the airport transit system isn't from the same level of government as the
other 2 rapid transit systems, they are not integrated.

The M.T.A., is of course wholly controlled by Albany. In the case of the
Port Authority, the governor of New York appoints half the board. In the end
the level is fundamentally the same.

Sancho Panza wrote:

They charge those who come in by mass transit a parking fee.


If they did include the parking fee, the charge would be $10, not $5. As it
stands, the reverse has been the fact for more than 20 years.


They do charge $10 - for the roundtrip. Presumably, one who takes
Airtrain to JFK takes it returning as well. For a ride of 2 or 3 miles
each way to Jamaica, that is excessive, particularly for a manless
operation. It's really a rip-off for Howard Beach. Still better off
taking the Q10 from Kew Gardens however slow.