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Eateries choose service charges over tips



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 07:06 AM
Ablang
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Eateries choose service charges over tips

I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on this topic, as
those who have discovered upon traveling to other states and
countries, that hotels & restaurants are starting to replace the
practice of consumer tipping and automatically adding it into the
bill. What do you think of this practice?

Eateries choose service charges over tips

By Laura Bly
USA Today

Starting today, diners who snag a coveted table at celebrity chef
Thomas Keller's pricey Manhattan restaurant, Per Se, won't need to
worry about calculating a gratuity as they linger over a Valrhona
chocolate brownie or glass of vintage port.

They'll pay an automatic, 20 percent service charge instead - and feed
an escalating controversy about how travelers reward those who serve
their meals, make their beds and carry their bags in what one expert
calls "the most tip-conscious country in the world."

"We tend to think of America as a place where the voluntary tip is
king," says Cornell University associate professor Michael Lynn, who
has researched tipping behavior for 20 years. "Today, that's not
necessarily the case."
Advertisement


Keller's new policy, which he says is designed to help bridge the
compensation gap between servers and lower-paid cooks and other
kitchen staff, is raising eyebrows among New York foodies.

But a required service charge "is something we've been doing at
(Keller's Napa Valley restaurant) French Laundry for eight years,"
notes Keller.

"There are other restaurants that employ this system in the United
States, and it's also common at major hotels," he says.

Indeed, "we are hearing more stories than we used to about mandatory
service charges replacing voluntary tips at hotels, particularly when
it comes to housekeepers, doormen and bellhops, both for individual
guests and for groups," says Sue Pelletier, executive editor of
Medical Meetings magazine.

When Cornell's Lynn made an informal survey of Conde Nast Traveler's
47 top-rated spas this spring, he found about half included an
automatic service charge.

Over the past few years, meanwhile, most major U.S. cruise lines have
deep-sixed the traditional practice of passengers distributing tip
envelopes at the end of a voyage in favor of automatic gratuities.
They typically run $10 per person per day, though passengers can
request an adjustment at the purser's desk.

But replacing voluntary tips with a service charge, while common in
Europe, remains unusual at U.S. restaurants except for parties of six
or more, says Tim Zagat, founder of the Zagat restaurant guides.

"It has been the consistent experience of most Americans that a tip
means 'to improve performance,' and most people believe it does have
an impact on the service they get," says Zagat, who points to a recent
online poll in which 94 percent of 1,000 respondents said they
preferred to determine their own tips.

"They like to be able to make a big gesture when they've had a great
meal," he adds. And although "it's very rare to stiff the waiter,
people do go down to 10 percent or 15 percent when they're miffed."

Some frequent travelers welcome the concept of service charges, at
least in a few settings.

"I would love it at hotels," says Stephanie Dickey, a Richmond,
Texas-based sales executive. "I hate always having to have plenty of
ones and fives to tip the valet, the bellman at the front, the bellman
who brings my bags to my room, housekeeping ... and so on."

On the other hand, "I've always felt that dining service is subpar in
countries where there is a flat service fee."

http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...26/1075/life05


===
"The pressure is outrageous. Everyone is picked apart and it's so superficial and not real. I'm not superskinny and not overweight. I'm just normal."
-- Hilary Duff
  #2  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 01:31 PM
ameijers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ablang" wrote in message
...
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on this topic, as
those who have discovered upon traveling to other states and
countries, that hotels & restaurants are starting to replace the
practice of consumer tipping and automatically adding it into the
bill. What do you think of this practice?

Eateries choose service charges over tips

By Laura Bly
USA Today

(article snipped)

Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I dearly wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of 7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.

aem sends...

  #3  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 03:11 PM
JerryL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ameijers" wrote in message
...

"Ablang" wrote in message
...
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on this topic, as
those who have discovered upon traveling to other states and
countries, that hotels & restaurants are starting to replace the
practice of consumer tipping and automatically adding it into the
bill. What do you think of this practice?

Eateries choose service charges over tips

By Laura Bly
USA Today

(article snipped)

Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I dearly
wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of 7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.

aem sends...


I"d prefer they don't add any service charge to the bill. Just raise their
menu prices accordingly and pay the staff a livable wage.


  #4  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 04:15 PM
Dave C.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I dearly
wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of 7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.

aem sends...


I"d prefer they don't add any service charge to the bill. Just raise

their
menu prices accordingly and pay the staff a livable wage.



Or at least minimum wage. That is, make wait-staff NOT exempt from minimum
wage laws that apply to other jobs, such as cashier at Wal-Mart. I wouldn't
mind paying the higher prices on the menu, as long as there wasn't a
mandatory "service charge" tacked onto the cost of food. I'd still tip
about 20% if the service wasn't horrible.

I think this mandatory service charge is a really bad idea, for several
reasons. First, if it's a service charge, what guarantee is there that the
money will actually go to someone who provided service? (I can imagine a
lot of dishonest employers keeping the service charges, essentially robbing
the wait-staff of their tips) Second, if the wait-staff GETS the service
charge (to replace the lost TIP income), what incentive is there for the
wait-staff to provide decent service? It's not hard to be a mediocre
waiter/waitress who does not generate lots of complaints from customers.
With mandatory service charges as tips, all waiter/waitresses will
eventually BE mediocre, as they will learn the minimum required service to
keep their jobs, and do JUST THAT. -Dave


  #5  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 06:30 PM
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"ameijers" wrote in message
...

"Ablang" wrote in message
...
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on this topic, as
those who have discovered upon traveling to other states and
countries, that hotels & restaurants are starting to replace the
practice of consumer tipping and automatically adding it into the
bill. What do you think of this practice?

Eateries choose service charges over tips

By Laura Bly
USA Today

(article snipped)

Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to

start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I

dearly wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of 7%

(I
think),


8%, at least back around the mid 80's when the guidelines were put
out. might be more now since the average tip was around 10% then,
and is 15% now.


would be taken out of the law.

aem sends...



  #6  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 06:32 PM
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ablang" wrote in message
...
I'm sure everyone will have an opinion on this topic, as
those who have discovered upon traveling to other states and
countries, that hotels & restaurants are starting to replace the
practice of consumer tipping and automatically adding it into the
bill. What do you think of this practice?

Eateries choose service charges over tips

By Laura Bly
USA Today

Starting today, diners who snag a coveted table at celebrity chef
Thomas Keller's pricey Manhattan restaurant, Per Se, won't need to
worry about calculating a gratuity as they linger over a Valrhona
chocolate brownie or glass of vintage port.

They'll pay an automatic, 20 percent service charge instead - and

feed
an escalating controversy about how travelers reward those who serve
their meals, make their beds and carry their bags in what one expert
calls "the most tip-conscious country in the world."

"We tend to think of America as a place where the voluntary tip is
king," says Cornell University associate professor Michael Lynn, who
has researched tipping behavior for 20 years. "Today, that's not
necessarily the case."
Advertisement


Keller's new policy, which he says is designed to help bridge the
compensation gap between servers and lower-paid cooks and other
kitchen staff, is raising eyebrows among New York foodies.

But a required service charge "is something we've been doing at
(Keller's Napa Valley restaurant) French Laundry for eight years,"
notes Keller.

"There are other restaurants that employ this system in the United
States, and it's also common at major hotels," he says.

Indeed, "we are hearing more stories than we used to about mandatory
service charges replacing voluntary tips at hotels, particularly

when
it comes to housekeepers, doormen and bellhops, both for individual
guests and for groups," says Sue Pelletier, executive editor of
Medical Meetings magazine.

When Cornell's Lynn made an informal survey of Conde Nast Traveler's
47 top-rated spas this spring, he found about half included an
automatic service charge.

Over the past few years, meanwhile, most major U.S. cruise lines

have
deep-sixed the traditional practice of passengers distributing tip
envelopes at the end of a voyage in favor of automatic gratuities.
They typically run $10 per person per day, though passengers can
request an adjustment at the purser's desk.

But replacing voluntary tips with a service charge, while common in
Europe, remains unusual at U.S. restaurants except for parties of

six
or more, says Tim Zagat, founder of the Zagat restaurant guides.

"It has been the consistent experience of most Americans that a tip
means 'to improve performance,' and most people believe it does have
an impact on the service they get," says Zagat, who points to a

recent
online poll in which 94 percent of 1,000 respondents said they
preferred to determine their own tips.

"They like to be able to make a big gesture when they've had a great
meal," he adds. And although "it's very rare to stiff the waiter,
people do go down to 10 percent or 15 percent when they're miffed."

Some frequent travelers welcome the concept of service charges, at
least in a few settings.

"I would love it at hotels," says Stephanie Dickey, a Richmond,
Texas-based sales executive. "I hate always having to have plenty of
ones and fives to tip the valet, the bellman at the front, the

bellman
who brings my bags to my room, housekeeping ... and so on."

On the other hand, "I've always felt that dining service is subpar

in
countries where there is a flat service fee."


http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...26/1075/life05


no problem, as long as it's specified up front in all situations.
then i can choose where i spend my money. fwiw, i think they will
lose good waitstaff, who will go to where they can make, and keep,
their tips.




  #7  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dave C." wrote in message
ink.net...
Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage

to start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I

dearly
wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption

of 7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.

aem sends...


I"d prefer they don't add any service charge to the bill. Just

raise
their
menu prices accordingly and pay the staff a livable wage.



Or at least minimum wage. That is, make wait-staff NOT exempt from

minimum
wage laws that apply to other jobs, such as cashier at Wal-Mart. I

wouldn't
mind paying the higher prices on the menu, as long as there wasn't a
mandatory "service charge" tacked onto the cost of food. I'd still

tip
about 20% if the service wasn't horrible.

I think this mandatory service charge is a really bad idea, for

several
reasons. First, if it's a service charge, what guarantee is there

that the
money will actually go to someone who provided service? (I can

imagine a
lot of dishonest employers keeping the service charges, essentially

robbing
the wait-staff of their tips)


and it was mentioned in the article that it would be used to subsidize
the low pay of the cooks, etc. this will cause the good waitstaff to
depart for more lucrative places that let them keep their tips (from
which they already have to tip the busboy--no cleared tables, no
seating and the bartender--no tip and your customers wait for their
drinks, thereby lowering the servers' tips).


  #8  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 09:41 PM
Mark Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article says...
Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I dearly wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of 7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.


I totally agree. The tipping crap in this country has gotten out of
hand where you can't go anywhere and buy something without someone
holding out a tip jar to contribute. I'm not a cheapskate but I'd like
to know what something costs up front end of story and not leave it open
ended. If a Starbucks venti mocha costs $4, which in and of itself is
way overpriced, how much should I give the cashier for taking my money?
I don't think this kind of service situation deserves an unambiguous add
on and it makes me very uncomfortable in that I wonder did I leave a big
enough tip or if I didn't, will next time I go in there will the
Starbucks people recognize me and water down my overpriced coffee? If
Starbucks (and I'm seeing this BS in 7-11s and gas stations as well)
thinks common courtesy requires I hand over my change to the cashier as
a tip or fork over 20% because the company is too cheap to pay their
cashiers where they expect the customers to supplement their salary,
then raise the god damn price of coffee and pay the employees what they
expect to make with tip and get rid of that obnoxious tip jar.

The Larry David show had a funny episode about tipping where he was
afraid to do anything because he didn't know who to tip. I don't know
how this country became so tip heavy. Maybe it's because we're used to
deceiving ourselves into thinking we're getting things cheaper than they
actually are. You think you're getting a bottle of soda for $0.99 but
tack on the sales tax and the beverage tax and you fork over $1.10. You
think you're making $50K per year but deduct fed and state income tax,
fica, medicare, etc. etc. and you're only taking home $30K and then
every year you haggle with the government to get some of that back -- or
not. Try and buy a new car sometime and your head will spin. The price
you think you're going to buy a car going in to a dealership is a lot
different than the price you end up paying. But at least you got a free
laptop or ipod or year's worth of gas meanwhile the dealership through
sleight of hand made you pay twice as much for that rebate crap had they
been straight up and just sold you a car straight up for a price with no
rebates, no bull****.

I think it would take a major culture change in this country to get rid
of tipping and I'm glad to see it start. Too many businesses are built
upon business plans of deceit. You want a free laptop? Go to
www.freelaptop.com. Meanwhile in the fine print the shipping costs $100
and you're contractually obligated to sign up with AOL for 10 years.

Note: The above free laptop is fictional.


  #9  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 10:16 PM
Abe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I totally agree. The tipping crap in this country has gotten out of
hand where you can't go anywhere and buy something without someone
holding out a tip jar to contribute.


I ignore the tip jars, and give the employee a hearty "thank you very
much."

I walk out of anyplace that plans to put a service charge on my bill,
and I let them know why.

If I get served well, the server gets 15% before tax. Not so great,
but OK, service gets 10% before tax, and poor service gets the few
pennies and nickels I happen to have laying around, up to 50 cents.
  #10  
Old October 2nd, 2005, 10:22 PM
AllEmailDeletedImmediately
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mark Anderson" wrote in message
.net...
In article says...
Better they should ban tips and just pay everyone a decent wage to

start
with? The bottom-line cost to the customer would be the same. I

dearly wish
the minimum-wage law for 'tipping' jobs and the IRS assumption of

7% (I
think), would be taken out of the law.


I totally agree. The tipping crap in this country has gotten out of
hand where you can't go anywhere and buy something without someone
holding out a tip jar to contribute. I'm not a cheapskate but I'd

like
to know what something costs up front end of story and not leave it

open
ended. If a Starbucks venti mocha costs $4, which in and of itself

is
way overpriced, how much should I give the cashier for taking my

money?

nothing. just because the jar is out, doesn't mean you put something
in. in fact, a jar means that they
make at least minimum wage. real servers, who make 2.13/hr don't put
out jars.

I don't think this kind of service situation deserves an unambiguous

add
on and it makes me very uncomfortable in that I wonder did I leave a

big
enough tip or if I didn't, will next time I go in there will the
Starbucks people recognize me and water down my overpriced coffee?

If
Starbucks (and I'm seeing this BS in 7-11s and gas stations as well)
thinks common courtesy requires I hand over my change to the cashier

as
a tip or fork over 20% because the company is too cheap to pay their
cashiers where they expect the customers to supplement their salary,
then raise the god damn price of coffee and pay the employees what

they
expect to make with tip and get rid of that obnoxious tip jar.


no business that pays its employees minimum wage should allow a tip
jar. i try to avoid them.


The Larry David show had a funny episode about tipping where he was
afraid to do anything because he didn't know who to tip. I don't

know
how this country became so tip heavy. Maybe it's because we're used

to
deceiving ourselves into thinking we're getting things cheaper than

they
actually are. You think you're getting a bottle of soda for $0.99

but
tack on the sales tax and the beverage tax and you fork over $1.10.

You
think you're making $50K per year but deduct fed and state income

tax,
fica, medicare, etc. etc. and you're only taking home $30K and then
every year you haggle with the government to get some of that

back -- or
not. Try and buy a new car sometime and your head will spin. The

price
you think you're going to buy a car going in to a dealership is a

lot
different than the price you end up paying. But at least you got a

free
laptop or ipod or year's worth of gas meanwhile the dealership

through
sleight of hand made you pay twice as much for that rebate crap had

they
been straight up and just sold you a car straight up for a price

with no
rebates, no bull****.


then it's a saturn for you.


 




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