body scanners in European airports

horne and martin the ultimate groping experience.


"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" a écrit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : ...

Martin wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:39:25 +0200, "M@gd@" wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:02:39 +0100, in rec.travel.europe,
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) arranged some
electrons, so they looked like this:
[]
... This story confirms what I'd thought- I'd rather go through the body
... scanner, particularly in a US airport.
...
... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ck/9563174.stm

I'd rather stay home.


=====
It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.

Security gropes much better in France.



--
(*) of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
www.davidhorne.net (email address on website)
"[Do you think the world learned anything from the first
world war?] No. They never learn." -Harry Patch (1898-2009)

Originally Posted by Martin[_2_]

On Mon, 8 Aug 2011 20:06:49 -0500, Dan Stephenson
wrote:

On 2011-08-08 19:23:58 -0500, Ken Blake said:

I can't speak about all of Europe, but I flew out of Athens a couple
of months ago. I didn't go through a body scanner.

I should phone back. Perhaps they thought I mean the metal detector.

Did you see body scanners there, and if so, could you tell how they
selected people to use them?

Are you trying to hide something?
--

Martin

that's so necessary noways ...

****man is in fact ****man

"Martin" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion :
...

On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:06:15 +0200, "M@gd@" wrote:

On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 23:49:38 +0200, in rec.travel.europe, Martin

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this:

... On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 22:13:16 +0200, "M@gd@" wrote:
...
... On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 12:48:19 +0100, in rec.travel.europe,
(David Horne,
... _the_ chancellor (*)) arranged some electrons, so they looked like
this:
...
... ... M@gd@ wrote:
... ...
... ... On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:02:39 +0100, in rec.travel.europe,
... ... (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*))
arranged some
... ... electrons, so they looked like this:
... ...
... ... ... Dan Stephenson wrote:
... ... ...
... ... ... My plans were to visit Europe again in October, but it
has come to my
... ... ... attention that the use of those body scanners has
become common since
... ... ... the attempted bombing of that flight to Detroit last
Christmas 2009.
... ... ... My last flight was prior to that.
... ... ...
... ... ... So I called the Athens airport and spoke to their
security people who
... ... ... said that they had the scanners and their use was
required, and
... ... ... furthermore that this was to be found in the other
airports in Europe.
... ... ...
... ... ... This sounds incredible but it is plausible. Can anyone
confirm this at
... ... ... your local big airport? My googling only turned up EU
regular that
... ... ... "permitted" the scanners and a lot of talk of health
issues. But that
... ... ... is all.
... ... ...
... ... ... This story confirms what I'd thought- I'd rather go
through the body
... ... ... scanner, particularly in a US airport.
... ... ...
... ... ...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ck/9563174.stm
... ...
... ... I'd rather stay home.
... ...
... ... But if you want to travel, flying is often the most practical
way of
... ... doing so. Unless you can afford first or business class, you
already
... ... sacrifice quite a bit of dignity when you fly- and even the
wider seats,
... ... more room and better service don't negate the fact you could be
spending
... ... many hours in a relatively confined space.
... ...
... ... Someone checking out my private parts via a really sketchy
grainy video
... ... image doesn't really phase me, and I'd prefer it to someone
touching me
... ... _any_ day of the week... Let's put it this way, it's one of the
parts of
... ... the flying process that would bother me the least.
...
... It depends where I want to go. Many times I travel by train. No body
scanners in trains
... (yet).
...
... Only amateurs.
...
... It sounds much better in French, but then, everything does.
...
... Plenty of gropers on the Metro

Grunge, is that you?

a familiar feeling?
--

Martin

On 08/11/2011 02:58 AM, Dan Stephenson wrote:
On 2011-08-09 02:17:40 -0500, Tom P said:

On 08/08/2011 11:56 PM, Dan Stephenson wrote:
My plans were to visit Europe again in October, but it has come to my
attention that the use of those body scanners has become common since
the attempted bombing of that flight to Detroit last Christmas 2009. My
last flight was prior to that.

So I called the Athens airport and spoke to their security people who
said that they had the scanners and their use was required, and
furthermore that this was to be found in the other airports in Europe.

This sounds incredible but it is plausible. Can anyone confirm this at
your local big airport? My googling only turned up EU regular that
"permitted" the scanners and a lot of talk of health issues. But that is
all.



There was something in the news here the other day about the scanners
on trial at Hamburg airport proving to be useless - much too slow, and
with a 35% to 70% false alarm rate, depending on which press story you
believe - ah, just found some references:
http://www.whec.com/news/stories/s2225742.shtml?cat=566

or google bodyscanner+false+alarms

It appears that the German authorities have decided to discontinue
their use, at least of the make of scanner they tested, so hopefully
the taxpayers will get their money back for these expensive piles of
useless junk.

Now this would be good news, in that there is a direct flight from
Dallas/Fort Worth near where I live, to Frankfurt.

If I can confirm the situation in Athens, I might make a
DFW-Frankfurt-Athens travel. Hmm! Maybe I gave up hope too soon!


Plans to introduce scanners in the present form at German airports have
now been abandoned.
The announcement was made this week by the Ministry of Interior. The
tests showed a false alarm rate of 54%.
http://tinyurl.com/454csr3

On 02/09/11 08:53, Martin wrote:

or a success rate of 46%. If other countries adopt them Germany will
become the terrorists favourite.

Why?

Terrorists have stopped attacking aircraft for the past ten years
because, pretty obviously, after the attack on the twin towers,
passengers have nothing to lose by attacking the hijackers.

There's absolutely no evidence at all that the screening systems using
conventional metal detecting technology are ineffective, it's just that
there's some clever marketing going on.

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

On 02/09/11 09:14, Martin wrote:
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:57:16 +0100, William Black
wrote:

On 02/09/11 08:53, Martin wrote:

or a success rate of 46%. If other countries adopt them Germany will
become the terrorists favourite.

Why?

Terrorists have stopped attacking aircraft for the past ten years
because, pretty obviously, after the attack on the twin towers,
passengers have nothing to lose by attacking the hijackers.

There's absolutely no evidence at all that the screening systems using
conventional metal detecting technology are ineffective, it's just that
there's some clever marketing going on.

Other than that when in a security test at Schiphol axes etc. were put
in luggage it reached Cayenne before the items were detected by
customs officers.

Why should an axe in the hold baggage be a problem?

Some of the electrical stuff I have put in hand luggage should have
triggered further investigation. The equipment is as good as the
operator.

Well yes, exactly.

Or are you suggesting that more expensive scanners will improve staff
training?

If you have an operator in Turin or Rome airport, for
example, who sits chatting with his back to the display, you may as
well switch it off.

So what good are the new scanners?

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:53:01 +0200, Martin wrote:


or a success rate of 46%. If other countries adopt them Germany will
become the terrorists favourite.

Statistics are not your field of expertise, I guess.

54% were false positives, no one says the other 46% were false
negatives.


Bye Maurice
--
Hamradio: ON4BAM http://www.on4bam.com/
Travelogues and Amateur radio
http://blog.on4bam.com/blog/

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:02:47 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
:

if 54% were false positives, then 46% weren't false.

They could either have been true positives, or true negatives, or false
negatives.


--
Tim C.
I'm against hunting. I'm actually a hunt saboteur. I go out the night
before and shoot the fox.

Tim C.:

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 11:02:47 +0200, Martin wrote in post :
m :

if 54% were false positives, then 46% weren't false.

They could either have been true positives, or true negatives, or
false negatives.

You may add true zero and false zero, for "scanner out of order" and
"scanner appeared to be out of order" respectively.

On 2011-09-02 02:47:21 -0500, Tom P said:


Now this would be good news, in that there is a direct flight from
Dallas/Fort Worth near where I live, to Frankfurt.

If I can confirm the situation in Athens, I might make a
DFW-Frankfurt-Athens travel. Hmm! Maybe I gave up hope too soon!


Plans to introduce scanners in the present form at German airports have
now been abandoned.
The announcement was made this week by the Ministry of Interior. The
tests showed a false alarm rate of 54%.
http://tinyurl.com/454csr3

Spectacular news. Give that, even if I cannot use the Athens airport,
it's just a really really long drive from Frankfurt to Brindisi, for
the ferry the next morning. It's some time off my trip, but do-able.
I'm concerned about driving 11 hours with a hour jet-lag -- but my
point is valid. At worse I could stay in Mittenwald on the Austrian
border again. That's a nice little town, by the way.
--
Dan Stephenson
http://web.mac.com/stepheda
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)