the skies are still full of plotting terrorists (long)

With no second security check
required in Detroit we headed to our gate

Why do you think a secondary check is needed ? Is the primary check not good
enough ? Or the checks airport/airlines staff go through not good enough ?

and waited for the
pre-boarding announcement. Standing near us, also waiting to
pre-board, was a group of six Middle Eastern men. They were carrying
blue passports with Arabic writing. Two men wore tracksuits with
Arabic writing across the back.

Duh - most middle eastern passports have arabic writing.

Two carried musical instrument cases -
thin, flat, 18" long.

Hmm maybe they were muscians.


The take-off was uneventful. But once we were in the air and the
seatbelt sign was turned off, the unusual activity began. The man in
the yellow T-shirt got out of his seat and went to the lavatory at the
front of coach -- taking his full McDonald's bag with him. When he
came out of the lavatory he still had the McDonald's bag, but it was
now almost empty.

Maybe the macdonalds hadnt agreed with him and he had thrown up in it
earlier.

Then another man from the group stood up and took something from his
carry-on in the overhead bin. It was about a foot long and was rolled
in cloth. He headed toward the back of the cabin with the object.
Five minutes later, several more of the Middle Eastern men began using
the forward lavatory consecutively. In the back, several of the men
stood up and used the back lavatory consecutively as well.


If they were travelling as a group and had gone through the same routine
that day, it is very likely their bladders would be in synch.

For the next hour, the men congregated in groups of two and three at
the back of the plane for varying periods of time. Meanwhile, in the
first class cabin, just a foot or so from the cockpit door, the man
with the dark suit - still wearing sunglasses - was also standing.

Sounds he was more like a secret service agent in disguise.

Not one of the flight crew members suggested that any of these men
take their seats.

Watching all of this, my husband was now beyond "anxious."

I would say paranoid was a better word.

I decided
to try to reassure my husband (and maybe myself) by walking to the
back bathroom.

Did you think to check it for suspicious devices ?

I knew the goateed-man I had exchanged friendly words
with as we boarded the plane was seated only a few rows back, so I
thought I would say hello to the man to get some reassurance that
everything was fine. As I stood up and turned around, I glanced in his
direction and we made eye contact. I threw out my friendliest
"remember-me-we-had-a-nice-exchange-just-a-short-time-ago" smile. The
man did not smile back. His face did not move. In fact, the cold,
defiant look he gave me sent shivers down my spine.


So he didnt remember you.

When I returned to my seat I was unable to assure my husband that all
was well.

And if he had smiled back at you then you could have ???

My husband immediately walked to the first class section to
talk with the flight attendant. "I might be overreacting, but I've
been watching some really suspicious things..." Before he could
finish his statement, the flight attendant pulled him into the galley.
In a quiet voice she explained that they were all concerned about what
was going on. The captain was aware. The flight attendants were
passing notes to each other. She said that there were people on board
"higher up than you and me watching the men."

Not really the correct response from the FA I think, hardly reassuring.


After seeing 14 Middle Eastern men board separately (six together,
eight individually) and then act as a group, watching their unusual
glances, observing their bizarre bathroom activities, watching them
congregate in small groups, knowing that the flight attendants and the
pilots were seriously concerned, and now knowing that federal air
marshals were on board, I was officially terrified..

Or paranoid

Suddenly, seven of the men stood up -- in unison -- and walked to the
front and back lavatories. One by one, they went into the two
lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of
us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the
lavatory to become available.

People often do that before landing.
Did you really time them all ?

The men spoke in Arabic among themselves
and to the man in the yellow shirt sitting nearby.

What would you expect if that was their native language ?

One of the men took
his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone.

And you saw this from row 17 ?
I always take my valuables into the lavatory on planes - it stops them being
stolen.

The last man came
out of the bathroom, and as he passed the man in the yellow shirt he
ran his forefinger across his neck and mouthed the word "No."


In Arabic ?

The plane landed. My husband and I gathered our bags and quickly, very
quickly, walked up the jetway. As we exited the jetway and entered the
airport, we saw many, many men in dark suits. A few yards further out
into the terminal, LAPD agents ran past us, heading for the gate.

with so much notice and the others already there there is a very serious
question to be asked as to why they were late.


So here's my question: Since the FBI issued a warning to the airline
industry to be wary of groups of five men on a plane who might be
trying to build bombs in the bathroom, shouldn't a group of 14 Middle
Eastern men be screened before boarding a flight?


Are you saying they wern't screened ?

From what I witnessed, Northwest Airlines doesn't have to worry about
Norman Mineta filing a complaint against them for discriminatory,
secondary screening of Arab men. No one checked the passports of the
Syrian men.

Even at the normal ID/boarding card check ????

No one inspected the contents of the two instrument cases
or the McDonald's bag.

you mean they didnt go through the scanner ?

"The U.S. Transportation and Security Administration has issued a new
directive which demands pilots make a pre-flight announcement banning
passengers from congregating in aisles and outside the plane's
toilets. The directive also orders flight attendants to check the
toilets every two hours for suspicious packages."

So thats once on a four hours flight .
and if they find something suspicious what then

There were 14 Syrians on NWA flight #327. They were questioned at
length by FAM, the FBI and the TSA upon landing in Los Angeles. The 14
Syrians had been hired as musicians to play at a casino in the desert.

That seems to fit

So the question is... Do I think these men were musicians? I'll let
you decide.

No, I'll let the authorities who checked it out decide. They seem to have
decided they were.

But I wonder, if 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes
into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?

and would they really put 14 terrorists on one plane then blow it up ?

In case you havent noticed terrorism seems to have moved to softer targets,
or do events outside the USA not register.

TOTAL PARANOIA. IMO

"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message
...
snip
In case you havent noticed terrorism seems to have moved to softer
targets,
or do events outside the USA not register.

TOTAL PARANOIA. IMO

Indeed. As Michael Moore says, there are no terrorists. There was nothing
suspicious at all about the actions of those Arab men, and like you pointed
out, anyone who was suspicious on that flight was paranoid. Most likely they
were bigots as well who don't respect other cultures. Everyone needs to
chill out!

"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message
...
snip
In case you havent noticed terrorism seems to have moved to softer
targets,
or do events outside the USA not register.

TOTAL PARANOIA. IMO

Indeed. As Michael Moore says, there are no terrorists. There was nothing
suspicious at all about the actions of those Arab men, and like you pointed
out, anyone who was suspicious on that flight was paranoid. Most likely they
were bigots as well who don't respect other cultures. Everyone needs to
chill out!

Clay Beatty wrote:

At first, I thought you were being sarcastic (there are no
terrorists)... Then I realized that you were simply insane...

Nothing paranoid about that suspicion at all... If the story is true,
those SOBs should have left the plane in leg-irons... Send em to Gitmo
on a one-way ticket!

What crime are you suggesting they be detained for?
In my reading of this story, which I don't believe, I don't recall any
criminal acts being committed unless YOU want to make it a crime to fly
while Islamic. I personally would not be checking out how full someone's
McD's bag is when going to bathroom, or when returning. Maybe they had
trash in the bag they wanted to dump. Perhaps they wanted to dump the
stale fries and keep the sandwich. Do you REALLY think a bunch of Arab
terrorists are going to get on a US airliner and be that visible in
carrying out their activities?

Clay Beatty wrote:

At first, I thought you were being sarcastic (there are no
terrorists)... Then I realized that you were simply insane...

Nothing paranoid about that suspicion at all... If the story is true,
those SOBs should have left the plane in leg-irons... Send em to Gitmo
on a one-way ticket!

What crime are you suggesting they be detained for?
In my reading of this story, which I don't believe, I don't recall any
criminal acts being committed unless YOU want to make it a crime to fly
while Islamic. I personally would not be checking out how full someone's
McD's bag is when going to bathroom, or when returning. Maybe they had
trash in the bag they wanted to dump. Perhaps they wanted to dump the
stale fries and keep the sandwich. Do you REALLY think a bunch of Arab
terrorists are going to get on a US airliner and be that visible in
carrying out their activities?

In article ,
"Bob Chipeska" wrote:

Indeed. As Michael Moore says, there are no terrorists. There was nothing
suspicious at all about the actions of those Arab men, and like you pointed
out, anyone who was suspicious on that flight was paranoid. Most likely they
were bigots as well who don't respect other cultures. Everyone needs to
chill out!

Let's see:

* Suppressing women, denying them education and
even the most elementary human rights.

* Vigilantes in the streets, whipping women who
violate their severely narrow ideas of propriety

* Blowing up priceless irreplacable statues, part
of the cultural heritage of the entire world.

and so on.

Am I allowed to not just disrespect, but actively
despise, Talibun culture? (If the word "culture"
can even be applied to them.)

In article ,
"Bob Chipeska" wrote:

Indeed. As Michael Moore says, there are no terrorists. There was nothing
suspicious at all about the actions of those Arab men, and like you pointed
out, anyone who was suspicious on that flight was paranoid. Most likely they
were bigots as well who don't respect other cultures. Everyone needs to
chill out!

Let's see:

* Suppressing women, denying them education and
even the most elementary human rights.

* Vigilantes in the streets, whipping women who
violate their severely narrow ideas of propriety

* Blowing up priceless irreplacable statues, part
of the cultural heritage of the entire world.

and so on.

Am I allowed to not just disrespect, but actively
despise, Talibun culture? (If the word "culture"
can even be applied to them.)

"Really Me" wrote in message
. com...
Clay Beatty wrote:

At first, I thought you were being sarcastic (there are no
terrorists)... Then I realized that you were simply insane...

Nothing paranoid about that suspicion at all... If the story is true,
those SOBs should have left the plane in leg-irons... Send em to Gitmo
on a one-way ticket!

What crime are you suggesting they be detained for?
In my reading of this story, which I don't believe, I don't recall any
criminal acts being committed unless YOU want to make it a crime to fly
while Islamic. I personally would not be checking out how full someone's
McD's bag is when going to bathroom, or when returning. Maybe they had
trash in the bag they wanted to dump. Perhaps they wanted to dump the
stale fries and keep the sandwich. Do you REALLY think a bunch of Arab
terrorists are going to get on a US airliner and be that visible in
carrying out their activities?


The crime they committed was not obeying directions given by flight
attendants and the pilot when they got up and started walking around after
the plane started final approach. Isn't that a federal crime?

Look, I don't know how true this story is. But if it is true, you'd be a
moron not to think that this qualifies as suspicious behavior, irregardless
of their race. I mean imagine yourself sitting on a plane getting ready to
land and all of a sudden 7 men get up in uniston and walk to the bathrooms?
You wouldn't find that a bit odd?

Matt

"Really Me" wrote in message
. com...
Clay Beatty wrote:

At first, I thought you were being sarcastic (there are no
terrorists)... Then I realized that you were simply insane...

Nothing paranoid about that suspicion at all... If the story is true,
those SOBs should have left the plane in leg-irons... Send em to Gitmo
on a one-way ticket!

What crime are you suggesting they be detained for?
In my reading of this story, which I don't believe, I don't recall any
criminal acts being committed unless YOU want to make it a crime to fly
while Islamic. I personally would not be checking out how full someone's
McD's bag is when going to bathroom, or when returning. Maybe they had
trash in the bag they wanted to dump. Perhaps they wanted to dump the
stale fries and keep the sandwich. Do you REALLY think a bunch of Arab
terrorists are going to get on a US airliner and be that visible in
carrying out their activities?


The crime they committed was not obeying directions given by flight
attendants and the pilot when they got up and started walking around after
the plane started final approach. Isn't that a federal crime?

Look, I don't know how true this story is. But if it is true, you'd be a
moron not to think that this qualifies as suspicious behavior, irregardless
of their race. I mean imagine yourself sitting on a plane getting ready to
land and all of a sudden 7 men get up in uniston and walk to the bathrooms?
You wouldn't find that a bit odd?

Matt

Matt wrote:

The crime they committed was not obeying directions given by flight
attendants and the pilot when they got up and started walking around after
the plane started final approach. Isn't that a federal crime?

Perhaps, if the airline wanted to really push things, but people do it
all the time.

Look, I don't know how true this story is. But if it is true, you'd be a
moron not to think that this qualifies as suspicious behavior, irregardless
of their race.

Why? I've seen people from various sports teams scattered in seats
around an aircraft, and they often stand up to talk to one another.
Nothing suspicious about that.

I mean imagine yourself sitting on a plane getting ready to land
and all of a sudden 7 men get up in uniston and walk to the
bathrooms? You wouldn't find that a bit odd?

That regularly happens on flights I've been on, particularly longer
flights with meal service. When the announcement is made that we are
beginning to descend, people seem to suddenly figure out they need to
go, and if they don't take the opportunity right now, they will have to
wait for perhaps 45 minutes or an hour until they arrive at the
terminal. The cabin crew seems to tolerate it, as things settle down for
landing.