Time for Dallas airfares to come down

Nigel Reed wrote in news:sn6v72-
:

Cyrus Afzali wrote:
It's not something people get to choose, as a rule. If you need to fly
out tomorrow on business, you'll be on an unrestricted, full-fare
ticket. You generally won't get the option of a discounted coach seat
of any type.

Flying out of BNA tomorrow at 12:12pm to DFW and returning 7 days later
is $754 on AA.

If you want to talk about price fixing...Delta also has the same price
for the same dates.

Agreed. Try it from Houston to BNA and check out the difference.

--
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dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych.
Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte!
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Murphy admits his failure to communicate.

"Jeff Hacker" wrote in message .com...
By coming out in favor of repealing the Wright Amendment, Southwest simply
kept AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier, etc. from coming in. It is bad enough to
have to compete with American at DFW; to compete with American and Southwest
(whether out of Love Field or DFW) would be an absolute killer.

Hmmmm. Not sure the logic there. They already compete with WN on
such routes, where WN doesn't fly into those specific airports.
AA is vunerable to these airlines. With Delta pulling back, the existence
of WN at another airport wouldn't seem particularly different from many of
their other routes.


AirTran seems to be doing pretty well out of DFW these days, with flights to
BWI, LAX, LAS, MCO, and now FLL as well as Atlanta. But they'll need to add
frequencies to all of the routes to compete with American.

Technically they don't have to "compete" with AA. They just need
to get their own market share.


A decent compromise might be to allow flights up to a specified distance
from Love Field, but onward flights (direct and/or connecting) could be
allowed, like out of LGA and DCA. This would allow Southwest to offer
through fares and would offer an option to those who don't mind a connection
or stop.

Frankly, I live in Dallas and would argue that the Wright Amendment is
anti-competitive, unnecessary, and a restraint on trade, as well as costing
the local passengers a significant penalty, which may well increase now that
AA will essentially have a monopoly at DFW with Delta's retreat from the
market.
[snip]

The loser in all of this is basically Fort Worth. DFW was built
to supposedly replace BOTH the Dallas (Love) and Fort Worth airports.
The Wright Amendment was part of a deal to ensure that DFW would
be THE airport for both cities. Fort Worth followed through and
actually plowed under their airport. But Dallas never really committed
to DFW. Now that there is plenty of traffic for both airports,
Fort Worth is left with 1/2 an airport and Dallas has effectively 1.5.

"Jeff Hacker" wrote in message .com...
By coming out in favor of repealing the Wright Amendment, Southwest simply
kept AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier, etc. from coming in. It is bad enough to
have to compete with American at DFW; to compete with American and Southwest
(whether out of Love Field or DFW) would be an absolute killer.

Hmmmm. Not sure the logic there. They already compete with WN on
such routes, where WN doesn't fly into those specific airports.
AA is vunerable to these airlines. With Delta pulling back, the existence
of WN at another airport wouldn't seem particularly different from many of
their other routes.


AirTran seems to be doing pretty well out of DFW these days, with flights to
BWI, LAX, LAS, MCO, and now FLL as well as Atlanta. But they'll need to add
frequencies to all of the routes to compete with American.

Technically they don't have to "compete" with AA. They just need
to get their own market share.


A decent compromise might be to allow flights up to a specified distance
from Love Field, but onward flights (direct and/or connecting) could be
allowed, like out of LGA and DCA. This would allow Southwest to offer
through fares and would offer an option to those who don't mind a connection
or stop.

Frankly, I live in Dallas and would argue that the Wright Amendment is
anti-competitive, unnecessary, and a restraint on trade, as well as costing
the local passengers a significant penalty, which may well increase now that
AA will essentially have a monopoly at DFW with Delta's retreat from the
market.
[snip]

The loser in all of this is basically Fort Worth. DFW was built
to supposedly replace BOTH the Dallas (Love) and Fort Worth airports.
The Wright Amendment was part of a deal to ensure that DFW would
be THE airport for both cities. Fort Worth followed through and
actually plowed under their airport. But Dallas never really committed
to DFW. Now that there is plenty of traffic for both airports,
Fort Worth is left with 1/2 an airport and Dallas has effectively 1.5.

"me" wrote in message
om...
"Jeff Hacker" wrote in message
.com...
By coming out in favor of repealing the Wright Amendment, Southwest
simply
kept AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier, etc. from coming in. It is bad enough
to
have to compete with American at DFW; to compete with American and
Southwest
(whether out of Love Field or DFW) would be an absolute killer.

Hmmmm. Not sure the logic there. They already compete with WN on
such routes, where WN doesn't fly into those specific airports.
AA is vunerable to these airlines. With Delta pulling back, the existence
of WN at another airport wouldn't seem particularly different from many of
their other routes.

Problem is that Southwest has a fortress hub at DAL and American has a
fortress hub at DFW. It would be hard for anybody else to mount the volume
of flights out of DFW to adequately compete.


AirTran seems to be doing pretty well out of DFW these days, with flights
to
BWI, LAX, LAS, MCO, and now FLL as well as Atlanta. But they'll need to
add
frequencies to all of the routes to compete with American.

Technically they don't have to "compete" with AA. They just need
to get their own market share.

But AA's feed sure helps them; FL doesn't have that at DFW.


A decent compromise might be to allow flights up to a specified distance
from Love Field, but onward flights (direct and/or connecting) could be
allowed, like out of LGA and DCA. This would allow Southwest to offer
through fares and would offer an option to those who don't mind a
connection
or stop.

Frankly, I live in Dallas and would argue that the Wright Amendment is
anti-competitive, unnecessary, and a restraint on trade, as well as
costing
the local passengers a significant penalty, which may well increase now
that
AA will essentially have a monopoly at DFW with Delta's retreat from the
market.
[snip]

The loser in all of this is basically Fort Worth. DFW was built
to supposedly replace BOTH the Dallas (Love) and Fort Worth airports.
The Wright Amendment was part of a deal to ensure that DFW would
be THE airport for both cities. Fort Worth followed through and
actually plowed under their airport. But Dallas never really committed
to DFW. Now that there is plenty of traffic for both airports,
Fort Worth is left with 1/2 an airport and Dallas has effectively 1.5.

But, when DFW was planned, Dallas and Fort Worth were about the same size.
Today, the population of Dallas is many times that of Fort Worth. Indeed,
certain of Dallas' suburbs are as big or bigger than the City of Fort Worth.
And GSW (the old Fort Worth airport), just south of DFW, never supported the
volume of flights Love Field did.

On a couple of occasions, airlines tried to operate out of Meacham Field in
Fort Worth (Fort Worth Air and Mesa), without success. I think largely a
function of population. Much to the chagrin of Fort Worth residents. But
the fact is that the population basis is in Dallas, not Fort Worth.

"me" wrote in message
om...
"Jeff Hacker" wrote in message
.com...
By coming out in favor of repealing the Wright Amendment, Southwest
simply
kept AirTran, JetBlue, Frontier, etc. from coming in. It is bad enough
to
have to compete with American at DFW; to compete with American and
Southwest
(whether out of Love Field or DFW) would be an absolute killer.

Hmmmm. Not sure the logic there. They already compete with WN on
such routes, where WN doesn't fly into those specific airports.
AA is vunerable to these airlines. With Delta pulling back, the existence
of WN at another airport wouldn't seem particularly different from many of
their other routes.

Problem is that Southwest has a fortress hub at DAL and American has a
fortress hub at DFW. It would be hard for anybody else to mount the volume
of flights out of DFW to adequately compete.


AirTran seems to be doing pretty well out of DFW these days, with flights
to
BWI, LAX, LAS, MCO, and now FLL as well as Atlanta. But they'll need to
add
frequencies to all of the routes to compete with American.

Technically they don't have to "compete" with AA. They just need
to get their own market share.

But AA's feed sure helps them; FL doesn't have that at DFW.


A decent compromise might be to allow flights up to a specified distance
from Love Field, but onward flights (direct and/or connecting) could be
allowed, like out of LGA and DCA. This would allow Southwest to offer
through fares and would offer an option to those who don't mind a
connection
or stop.

Frankly, I live in Dallas and would argue that the Wright Amendment is
anti-competitive, unnecessary, and a restraint on trade, as well as
costing
the local passengers a significant penalty, which may well increase now
that
AA will essentially have a monopoly at DFW with Delta's retreat from the
market.
[snip]

The loser in all of this is basically Fort Worth. DFW was built
to supposedly replace BOTH the Dallas (Love) and Fort Worth airports.
The Wright Amendment was part of a deal to ensure that DFW would
be THE airport for both cities. Fort Worth followed through and
actually plowed under their airport. But Dallas never really committed
to DFW. Now that there is plenty of traffic for both airports,
Fort Worth is left with 1/2 an airport and Dallas has effectively 1.5.

But, when DFW was planned, Dallas and Fort Worth were about the same size.
Today, the population of Dallas is many times that of Fort Worth. Indeed,
certain of Dallas' suburbs are as big or bigger than the City of Fort Worth.
And GSW (the old Fort Worth airport), just south of DFW, never supported the
volume of flights Love Field did.

On a couple of occasions, airlines tried to operate out of Meacham Field in
Fort Worth (Fort Worth Air and Mesa), without success. I think largely a
function of population. Much to the chagrin of Fort Worth residents. But
the fact is that the population basis is in Dallas, not Fort Worth.

- HAL9000 wrote:
Ok.

So the wright amendment was to protect airlines which operated out of
DFW. Apparently the amendment was not enough as one airline has
pulled out of DFW. If the wright amendment is removed seems like DFW
has to fail as an airport.

That wouldn't be a such a bad thing. DFW is probably the worst airport
I've ever been to as far as facilities go, except maybe for EMA which is
a small regional airport.

Considering it's the worlds 3rd busiest (I think), their shopping and
restaurant selection is poor. There's very little to do once you have
actually checked in and gone through security control.

Regards
Nigel
--
www.myoldcontacts.com - Tell your friends to tell their friends and reconnect
with you lost internet friends.

http://www.sysadmininc.com (My daytime job)
http://www.british-expats.com (My spare time)

"Right you are, Ken" --Vic Romano

- HAL9000 wrote:
Ok.

So the wright amendment was to protect airlines which operated out of
DFW. Apparently the amendment was not enough as one airline has
pulled out of DFW. If the wright amendment is removed seems like DFW
has to fail as an airport.

That wouldn't be a such a bad thing. DFW is probably the worst airport
I've ever been to as far as facilities go, except maybe for EMA which is
a small regional airport.

Considering it's the worlds 3rd busiest (I think), their shopping and
restaurant selection is poor. There's very little to do once you have
actually checked in and gone through security control.

Regards
Nigel
--
www.myoldcontacts.com - Tell your friends to tell their friends and reconnect
with you lost internet friends.

http://www.sysadmininc.com (My daytime job)
http://www.british-expats.com (My spare time)

"Right you are, Ken" --Vic Romano

The Wright Amendment was intended to protect DFW, not the airlines flying
out of there.

Here in Dallas, on this evening's news, there's been a bunch of speculation
on the amount of the loss to be incurred as a result of Delta's de-hubbing.
It is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

DFW won't fail as an airport - it is one of the busiest ones in the world.
But there will be something like 24 empty gates, closed shops, etc.


"- HAL9000" wrote in message
...
Ok.

So the wright amendment was to protect airlines which operated out of
DFW. Apparently the amendment was not enough as one airline has
pulled out of DFW. If the wright amendment is removed seems like DFW
has to fail as an airport.


On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:28:15 GMT, Cyrus Afzali
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 05:26:05 GMT, - HAL9000
wrote:

I guess I don't understand. SW air fares (out of dallas) are already
low. Did you mean to title it "Time for DFW air fares to come down"?

Yes, that's what people are talking about. There's no longer a need
for artificial government intervention to hold up traffic at DFW. It's
been the largest airport in the area for ages, so now it seems to
function only as a gift to AA.

The Wright Amendment was intended to protect DFW, not the airlines flying
out of there.

Here in Dallas, on this evening's news, there's been a bunch of speculation
on the amount of the loss to be incurred as a result of Delta's de-hubbing.
It is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

DFW won't fail as an airport - it is one of the busiest ones in the world.
But there will be something like 24 empty gates, closed shops, etc.


"- HAL9000" wrote in message
...
Ok.

So the wright amendment was to protect airlines which operated out of
DFW. Apparently the amendment was not enough as one airline has
pulled out of DFW. If the wright amendment is removed seems like DFW
has to fail as an airport.


On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 14:28:15 GMT, Cyrus Afzali
wrote:

On Wed, 01 Dec 2004 05:26:05 GMT, - HAL9000
wrote:

I guess I don't understand. SW air fares (out of dallas) are already
low. Did you mean to title it "Time for DFW air fares to come down"?

Yes, that's what people are talking about. There's no longer a need
for artificial government intervention to hold up traffic at DFW. It's
been the largest airport in the area for ages, so now it seems to
function only as a gift to AA.

- HAL9000 wrote in
:

So is 24 gates enough for all of SW to move to DFW? Seems like that
would be the ideal (ignoring cost) solution.

It's more than enough, but the point is that DFW is too busy for SWAir.
It depends on *quick* turnaround times to make money. You aren't going to
get that at DFW. Because of the taxi distance after landing there can be
as much as 25 minutes spent just navigating the airport and waiting for
gates. That's an extra flight a day for short flights.

AA gouges folks at DFW and the rest of the airlines follow suit there.
Compare a round trip to NYC from Houston vs. NYC from DFW and you'll see.

The other problem is that DFW is looking at a couple billion in debt and
they're building yet another terminal while one is about to get vacated.

--
Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in
dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych.
Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte!
Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!.
Charter Member - Digital Brownshirts and Library Gestapo.
I am not familiar with this particular work, but I think all
astrological applications to be valid." - Wollmann displays his vast
knowledge of astrology and grammar.