Avoid Delta and Atlanta

On 16 Aug 2006 01:40:52 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


The Reid wrote:
Following up to Carole Allen

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

there's no place for common sense in this debate.

Plenty of common sense in the discussion. It's your ability to
comprehend that is at question.

You're all alone here. No one seems to wants to support your point of
view, because you are not making sense.

The French speak English in the street,

Many do.

Many? Yes, maybe a whopping 1% speak some English in the street.
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On 15 Aug 2006 20:29:03 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 18:09:13 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Jordi wrote:

No, they're not.

Spoken like a true Euro who have never been to the US.

Before you come up with the "smart" response, I've been to Europe
probably 100 times and visited a large number of European countries.

Nice one. How come you have such an odd view of Europe? Is it because
you are lying?

No, it's because I've been all over the world and have had the
opportunity to compare various cultures.

Oddly, so have I, plus many others reading this. Your view seems way
different to anyone elses here, suggesting you must be right, and
we're all wrong.

There's history, you see. Are you by any chance pretending the US is
exempt from those?

No. Just pointing out the fact that the reason so many Euros have
passports is due to hatred and bigotry, not some cultural superiority
as has been implied.

Very bizzare response.

Yes, I find European history quite odd myself.

This is evidently why you don't seem to understand the European view
of things.

No, we're talking two completely different things. All this came after
you said more or less 'what's the use of holidays if people don't have
money to spend', Europeans do have enough money to keep a... say
'western' lifestyle without having to work 51 weeks a year, that's all.

But their "western" lifestyle is lower than American's.

In what sense? 1.0 litre less of engine?, 4 less inches on a flat TV?
Having some real vacation weighs substantially more on overal quality
of life.

As do a lot of other things. Most Americans have "real" vacations and
most have more to spend on their vacations that Euros do.

That is meaningless, as you included "real", which could mean anything.

No, Jordi included "real". I quoted him.

Try to keep up.

Getting a bit defensive are we? I never aimed that one at you.
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On 16 Aug 2006 01:32:12 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


The Reid wrote:
Following up to Hatunen

that's a classic, "everybody in Europe speaks English". Is the
man trolling?

In all fairness, he didn't say "everybody".

True, but "almost all" is just as silly and if not a troll
indicates someone who has never moved outside major tourist
spots. .

Tourist spots??? English is the primary and *official* language of
government for the EU. It is the primary language of business
throughout the EU. It is the primary language for education throughout
the EU.

Time to get back into the current century.

You are very foolish in stating this. Quite a number of us actually
live here, and know just what it's actually like.

http://linguistlist.org/issues/12/12-166.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3143464.stm

"Italians place a very high importance on learning languages,
particularly English. Fifteen years ago it was quite difficult to find
an English speaker here but today it is relatively easy."

You failed to attribute that that was merely a comment someone made in
the tourist hotspot of Rome. That doesn't make it a fact. Around 5% of
Italians speak reasonable English.
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On 15 Aug 2006 18:48:12 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 18:18:12 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Miguel Cruz wrote:

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people have
shared fluency in any language.

Almost all speak English.

*chuckle*

You would be one of those ignorant yanks if you believe this!

A few years ago I commented to a friend of my in Angola about the
difficulty I had in France (I used to go there several times a year)
because I don't speak French and not all that many people spoke
English. He claimed that it was because many people have an attitude
like you just expressed (ignorant yank) abouit Americans.

At his suggestion I tried using Portuguese when I went to France (I had
learned that after several years in Angola). So I did. I'd speak to
someone in France using Portuguese and they would respond in French.
I'd try again in Portuguese and then they would shift to English as a
"neutral language".

I found that damn near everyone I met could speak English fairly well.

That's due to your limited experience, probably limited to touristy
areas.

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,

You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?

It's a hell of a lot closer than Greek salad and Sauerkraut.

Clearly someone has never eaten Creole food and Philly Cheese Steaks.

Neither of those are as common as the humble Big Mac in the typical
diet.
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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Following up to Dave Frightens Me

So I did. I'd speak to
someone in France using Portuguese and they would respond in French.
I'd try again in Portuguese and then they would shift to English as a
"neutral language".

I found that damn near everyone I met could speak English fairly well.

That's due to your limited experience, probably limited to touristy
areas.

He obviously never took a taxi! Most of the places I've been in
Spain, Italy and France there's a few educated people who speak
English, the vast majority don't, often even the waiters etc who
*appear* to.
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 16 Aug 2006 01:32:12 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:

"Italians place a very high importance on learning languages,
particularly English. Fifteen years ago it was quite difficult to find
an English speaker here but today it is relatively easy."

You failed to attribute that that was merely a comment someone made in
the tourist hotspot of Rome. That doesn't make it a fact. Around 5% of
Italians speak reasonable English.

On our recent trip to Sardinia I was surprised that so few people spoke
English. Luckily Italian is mostly French with "o" stuck on the end, so
with that, and shouting a lot, we got by.

B;

Tchiowa wrote:
Jordi wrote:
Tchiowa wrote:
No, in this context it's the core of what works and what doesn't work.

In your black & white world, perhaps.

If you are unable to understand the difference between government
control and regulation then you have a real problem with economics.


You keep telling 4 weeks holiday is 'control' and 'unbearable' yet
countries like Australia, Sweden or the different Scandinavian
countries prove you can have more than that holiday allowance by law
and a competitive economy.

Again, it's not the holiday.


Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.

No, they're not.

Spoken like a true Euro who have never been to the US.

Except for New Orleans, I've been in them all.


Before you come up with the "smart" response, I've been to Europe
probably 100 times and visited a large number of European countries.


You've said that half a dozen times already, the only possible
conclusion is that you can spend a considerable amount of time in a
foreign country and not realise what's going on.


There's history, you see. Are you by any chance pretending the US is
exempt from those?

No. Just pointing out the fact that the reason so many Euros have
passports is due to hatred and bigotry, not some cultural superiority
as has been implied.

Cultural superiority as having more different cultures in a reduced
space, yes, that's it.


But their "western" lifestyle is lower than American's.

In what sense? 1.0 litre less of engine?, 4 less inches on a flat TV?
Having some real vacation weighs substantially more on overal quality
of life.

As do a lot of other things. Most Americans have "real" vacations and
most have more to spend on their vacations that Euros do.

Sure you mean 'most Americans over 45'?

They don't. Some do, some don't.

A vast majority don't

Wrong.

Want to dig up those stats again?


But are you saying that you can't enjoy time with your family and still work????

You can, just less.

Quantity as opposed to quality?

Quality is just on the individual.



So you believe. Many studies show an increased vacation time reduces
stress and improves productivity.

Where?

There was that article posted by a fellow rte poster citing a couple of
business cases in the US.


Then how can you say that the amount Americans work is "excessive"?

It's less than other very productive economies (Australians have 5
weeks, Sweden has 25 days, etc.)

Less or more is not the issue. You said *EXCESSIVE*! Then you admit you
can't calculate it. So maybe Australians vacation is *excessive*.

They seem to do pretty well, so the answer is no, as the cap on
vacation is economic sense.


If you are talking on an international level, you will see many of
these allegedly burdened employers competing hand to hand with other
'unburdened' ones.

With a whole lot less employees which is demonstrated by the high
unemployment rates in Europe.

Do Australia and Sweden have high unemployment rates?



J.

Tchiowa wrote:
The Reid wrote:


You mean like the Creoles and the Navajo?

(as long as you're talking about small minorities)

How many books or magazines are published yearly in Creole and Navajo
languages as opposed to Basque and Catalan?

The figures for Catalan and Basque books are 8.000 and 2.000 titles
respectively.


J.

Hatunen wrote:
On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:29:37 -0400, "Sarah Banick"


As for me, I have found New York and New Orleans to have very
different cultures, perhaps because I grew up in a still
different cultu the Midwest. And San Francisco??? I've lived
there; it's different.

They are indeed different, but it's the same kind of difference you can
find between Barcelona, La Coruña and Badajoz, all in an area twice
the size of Oregon.


J.

On 15 Aug 2006 22:45:11 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Europeans possession of passports is a result of hatred and bigotry
that has kept the continent at war with itself for centuries. Not
something to be proud of.

and Europeans can travel between most countries without going through
any kind of passport control.

These days, yes. But that's a recent development. The reason a lot of
Euros have passports was because that wasn't the case until recently.

Try to keep up.

As I pointed out elsewhere, there were no passports until after
WW1. The fact that they are no longer needed for much
intra-European travel means that they really only served their
purpose for about 80 years out of two millenia of European
history. You make a pretty weak case with the passport business,
espcially since you don't explain *why* passports are an
indication of bigotry and hatred.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *