In Paris, the customer is not always right

On 2010-03-01 18:03:32 -0800, Frank Clarke said:

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:20:42 -0600, Hackamore wrote:



I've been regularly visiting France and Paris for 50 years now and the
French are always nice to me.

I tell all potential visitors to France that if they try even a little bit to
meet the French half-way they will return home wondering what everyone else is
talking about when they call the French 'rude'.

Bonjour, Merci, qu'est-ce-que ce? handle just about everything.

Gosh that's good to read. We're taking out first trip to Paris and the
south next week. I've been digging around on the net to get a clue
here and there. Reading what I can of RTE has been kinda depressing
given that France-bashers kind of dominate the France/Paris filter.

My standard rule in Asia is that if you make half an honest effort with
the local language people are so appreciative it is shocking. I was
getting the idea here that perhaps Paris is an enclave where that rule
doesn't apply. I had my doubts. I still do. It's nice to get another to
bolster it.
--
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

On Sep 21, 7:26*pm, gtr wrote:
On 2010-03-01 18:03:32 -0800, Frank Clarke said:

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:20:42 -0600, Hackamore wrote:


I've been regularly visiting France and Paris for 50 years now and the
French are always nice to me.

I tell all potential visitors to France that if they try even a little bit to
meet the French half-way they will return home wondering what everyone else is
talking about when they call the French 'rude'.

Bonjour, Merci, qu'est-ce-que ce? handle just about everything.

Gosh that's good to read. *We're taking out first trip to Paris and the
south next week. *I've been digging around on the net to get a clue
here and there. Reading what I can of RTE has been kinda depressing
given that France-bashers kind of dominate the France/Paris filter.

My standard rule in Asia is that if you make half an honest effort with
the local language people are so appreciative it is shocking. I was
getting the idea here that perhaps Paris is an enclave where that rule
doesn't apply. I had my doubts. I still do. It's nice to get another to
bolster it.
--
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

I was not going to reply but you said first visit, so for what it is
worth, my wife, and baby, stationed in Germany, made many road trips
to France. Always had a very good time, and the people are very
nice. Now it is true that in some of the restaurants in Paris, the
waiters seem surly, but as my French friend explained, they are very
democratic. They are rude to everyone. If they perceive that you are
a rube from the countryside (insert whatever country) and are not
going to spend money, and will not tip well, and are taking up *their*
table which could be had by a big-spender, then yes, they are rude.
But it is not about you. They just want to maximize their income.

We drove everywhere. To the flea markets. To the Lourve. to the
Musee d'Orsay. Around the Arc d' Triomphe several times, because we
could not figure out how to get out of the roundabout. To
Versailles. To the Champagne cellers in Rheims. Always good people
everywhere, and I left out a hundred places. But I was in the US
Army, and that counts for a lot, even a free pass into the French
commissary, which has the best Vin Ordinaire you will ever drink, and
for one dollar a bottle.

Later in life I worked for Rockwell and we had a contract with
Thompson CSF (Paris) and we hosted the French project manager, in
Dallas. What he wanted to see was the Mesquite rodeo, and what he
wanted to eat was Texas barbeque. Later, we went to Paris, for the
contract presentation and he took us to a historic French restaurant
that served meals from the last century. A seven course dinner, with
a wine with each course. Four hours long. I wanted to take a pic of
every plate (but that might have seemed a little too much.) Just a
more wonderful night in any number of wonderful experiences in France.

Anyway, if all else fails, just say that your papa was in the 82nd
Airborne Division, and before he died, he said that you just had to
see where he was, in La Belle France. They will be all over you.

On 22/09/10 03:26, gtr wrote:

Gosh that's good to read. We're taking out first trip to Paris and the
south next week. I've been digging around on the net to get a clue here
and there. Reading what I can of RTE has been kinda depressing given
that France-bashers kind of dominate the France/Paris filter.

My standard rule in Asia is that if you make half an honest effort with
the local language people are so appreciative it is shocking. I was
getting the idea here that perhaps Paris is an enclave where that rule
doesn't apply. I had my doubts. I still do. It's nice to get another to
bolster it.

My experience of France is that if you try and speak the language it is
appreciated.

Even my fractured schoolboy French (learnt over 40 years ago and just
about adequate now to order food and drinks and go shopping) is
appreciated and I have never encountered the legendary French rudeness
outside Paris.

In Asia I never get the chance to practice the local language as
everyone is far too keen to practice their English on a native English
speaker.

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

On 2010-09-21 21:49:47 -0700, billzz said:

Later in life I worked for Rockwell and we had a contract with
Thompson CSF (Paris) and we hosted the French project manager, in
Dallas. What he wanted to see was the Mesquite rodeo, and what he
wanted to eat was Texas barbeque.

As a Dallas transplant in California for the past 20 years, I'm
delighted to find outlanders eating what *they should* when in such
places. I rarely eat BBQ except in Dallas. I hope you took them to
Sonny Bryan's.

Later, we went to Paris, for the
contract presentation and he took us to a historic French restaurant
that served meals from the last century. A seven course dinner, with
a wine with each course. Four hours long. I wanted to take a pic of
every plate (but that might have seemed a little too much.) Just a
more wonderful night in any number of wonderful experiences in France.

Anyway, if all else fails, just say that your papa was in the 82nd
Airborne Division, and before he died, he said that you just had to
see where he was, in La Belle France. They will be all over you.

Absolutely brilliant device! Although dear old dad was actually a translator.

In Japan I cobbled together the phrase "I understand the sake is good
in [current prefecture], but the best is in [adjoining prefecture]. Is
that true?" Whereupon they would bring me the best local stuff they
could put their hands on. And of course I declared [current
prefecture] the unqualified winner with my new best friends.
--
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

On 2010-09-22 03:46:41 -0700, William Black said:

My experience of France is that if you try and speak the language it is
appreciated.

Even my fractured schoolboy French (learnt over 40 years ago and just
about adequate now to order food and drinks and go shopping) is
appreciated and I have never encountered the legendary French rudeness
outside Paris.

Good to hear. I really think this is a semi-magic key to getting along
anywhere on planet earth: an indication of specific interest in where
you actually are. As an example I've never turned down anything I've
been offered to eat and have always been (seemingly) delighted with it.
All the people of the world crave a little appreciation.

In Asia I never get the chance to practice the local language as
everyone is far too keen to practice their English on a native English
speaker.

Same here. I usually ask (in local language) if they speak English.
They say no. I then begin chattering away in my barbarous Japanese
earning their respect. Then they interrupt me in their English, more
than willing to "embarrass" themselves, since I apparently have no
shame whatever.
--
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them out of meat?

gtr wrote:
On 2010-03-01 18:03:32 -0800, Frank Clarke said:

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 02:20:42 -0600, Hackamore
wrote:



I've been regularly visiting France and Paris for 50 years now and the
French are always nice to me.

I tell all potential visitors to France that if they try even a little
bit to
meet the French half-way they will return home wondering what everyone
else is
talking about when they call the French 'rude'.

Bonjour, Merci, qu'est-ce-que ce? handle just about everything.

Gosh that's good to read. We're taking out first trip to Paris and the
south next week. I've been digging around on the net to get a clue here
and there. Reading what I can of RTE has been kinda depressing given
that France-bashers kind of dominate the France/Paris filter.

My standard rule in Asia is that if you make half an honest effort with
the local language people are so appreciative it is shocking. I was
getting the idea here that perhaps Paris is an enclave where that rule
doesn't apply. I had my doubts. I still do. It's nice to get another to
bolster it.

My experiences with Parisians have certainly not involved much
"rudeness" - au contraire! Shopkeepers, museum personnel, ushers at
Opera Bastille, and just ordinary people on the street have always been
perfectly polite to me - sometimes going well out of their way to be
helpful to this clueless Americaine. A few words of French (however
badly pronounced), recognition that you are a stranger in THEIR country
(where French, not English, is the accepted language), and the ability
to laugh at yourself when you make silly mistakes, seem to go a long way
toward making a visit to Paris pleasant and rewarding.

gtr wrote:
On 2010-09-22 03:46:41 -0700, William Black said:

My experience of France is that if you try and speak the language it
is appreciated.

Even my fractured schoolboy French (learnt over 40 years ago and just
about adequate now to order food and drinks and go shopping) is
appreciated and I have never encountered the legendary French rudeness
outside Paris.

Good to hear. I really think this is a semi-magic key to getting along
anywhere on planet earth: an indication of specific interest in where
you actually are. As an example I've never turned down anything I've
been offered to eat and have always been (seemingly) delighted with it.
All the people of the world crave a little appreciation.

I agree with you a hundred percent, about that! However much effort it
may sometimes take to overcome food prejudices, I always adopt the
attitude that, if it's considered fit for human consumption where I am
dining, it probably won't kill me. Some things have required a real
effort, but along the way I've discovered some delicacies I might never
have sampled, if I'd listened to my prejudices. ("Escargot", for one -
especially those stewed in a peppery broth of celery and onion I bought
from a street vendor in Brussels - truly wonderful!)

On 22/09/10 17:51, gtr wrote:
On 2010-09-22 03:46:41 -0700, William Black said:

In Asia I never get the chance to practice the local language as
everyone is far too keen to practice their English on a native English
speaker.

Same here. I usually ask (in local language) if they speak English. They
say no. I then begin chattering away in my barbarous Japanese earning
their respect. Then they interrupt me in their English, more than
willing to "embarrass" themselves, since I apparently have no shame
whatever.

In India you never get the chance to practice whichever language is
spoken where you are.

Everybody, but everybody, wants to learn to speak good English.


--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...

gtr writes:

My standard rule in Asia is that if you make half an honest effort with
the local language people are so appreciative it is shocking. I was
getting the idea here that perhaps Paris is an enclave where that rule
doesn't apply. I had my doubts. I still do. It's nice to get another to
bolster it.

Parisians, like the residents of all modern large cities in the developed
world, can be brusque with strangers, although it does not actually represent
rudeness. And like most cities, Paris has a substantial minority of rather
neurotic and unpleasant residents. But your standard rule will continue to
work in Paris just as it works in other cities, rest assured.

I find that the Parisians who are most likely to be rude are those who are
paid to deal with tourists for a living. They are not paid well, the
interaction with naive and often impolite tourists is very stressful, and it
wears them down. And customer service in France in general is terrible: the
French are even unpleasant towards each other when it comes to the
server/client relationship, although for some reason the French tolerate this
poor service (perhaps because many have never seen or provided real customer
service).

billzz writes:

Anyway, if all else fails, just say that your papa was in the 82nd
Airborne Division, and before he died, he said that you just had to
see where he was, in La Belle France. They will be all over you.

Provided that it's actually true, of course.