Poisonous animals in Mid-West?

As funny as it may sound, is there any real danger posed by poisonous
animals when travelling in US Mid-West, e.g. Utah, Arizona, Nevada?

We will be camping near Grand Canyon North Rim - any chance of stepping
on rattle-snake? Or, say, what about hiking in Utah canyons or Monument
Valley etc?

What about other snakes, scorpions, spiders?

Fiance wrote:
As funny as it may sound, is there any real danger posed by poisonous
animals when travelling in US Mid-West, e.g. Utah, Arizona, Nevada?

We will be camping near Grand Canyon North Rim - any chance of stepping
on rattle-snake? Or, say, what about hiking in Utah canyons or Monument
Valley etc?

What about other snakes, scorpions, spiders?

UT, AZ and NV are nowhere near the Midwest but are in the american
Southwest. You shouldn't really have to worry about poisonous
creatures, most tourists probably never see any and in the summer many
will only be active at night. Just don't stick your hands under rocks
or other possible likely hiding places, and be somewhat leery if
climbing steep slopes with ledges if using your hands ahead and above
you to climb. If you are where a lot of people normally go, the snakes
probably prefer to be elsewhere unless it's a garbage dump that
attracts rodents. Even the few people that are bitten usually survive.
Probably the most dangerous thing that could happen to you is a car
accident.

George

Fiance writes ...

As funny as it may sound, is there any real danger posed by poisonous
animals when travelling in US Mid-West, e.g. Utah, Arizona, Nevada?

This is the 'south-west' ... mid-west would be places like Iowa, Kansas
etc ... yes, there are rattlesnakes in these states. It's not a bad
question to ask at all ...

We will be camping near Grand Canyon North Rim - any chance of
stepping on rattle-snake?

The elevation is about 8,200 ft so it's covered by snow for several
months and there are few snakes on the north rim. I know one guy who
saw a rattler on the south rim but in literally weeks of time spent
there I've yet to see one on either rim. If you hike the trails below
the rim you could see one, especially below the redwall limestone (say
half way down or lower). I've hiked over 1,200 miles inside the canyon
and seen three rattlers so figure one every 400 miles ... two of these
were well-off the beaten path on non-maintained trails, one on the
popular Bright Angel Trail about half way between each rim ... also
done three river rafting trips and saw one rattler each trip, so it's
not like other parts of Arizona where I see a rattlesnake every other
hike.

Or, say, what about hiking in Utah canyons or Monument
Valley etc?

Basically at the lower elevations you might see rattlesnakes but they
are not common. I'd be very alert in dry brushy areas below say 5,000
ft ... I've spent a lot of time photographing at Monument Valley and
haven't seen one there but I hear they have a few ... in Utah we saw
one once on a 117 mile canoe trip down the Green River to Spanish
Bottom (Canyonlands) but only one. You just have to keep an eye out
around brushy areas and be extra careful at night but very few people
even see one, much less get bit.

What about other snakes, scorpions, spiders?

Where you're going you should be OK because it's higher up ... at lower
elevations (say the Sonoran desert) there are Gila monster lizards
(I've seen two in years of desert travel and never heard of one biting
someone) and scorpions (we have plenty of those where I live). To put
it in perspective each year several people die of heat stroke or
drowning in the Grand Canyon and several hundred people die from heat
stroke or thirst while crossing the deserts illegally from Mexico but
very few people get bit by snakes.

Bill

"Fiance" wrote...

As funny as it may sound, is there any real danger posed by poisonous
animals when travelling in US Mid-West, e.g. Utah, Arizona, Nevada?

We will be camping near Grand Canyon North Rim - any chance of stepping
on rattle-snake? Or, say, what about hiking in Utah canyons or Monument
Valley etc?

What about other snakes, scorpions, spiders?

First, having grown up and worked in the Midwest (Wisconsin/Ohio), I must
say that UT, AZ and NV are more correctly referred to as The Southwest and
depending on how wide your travel plans are, you may even be entirely on the
Colorado Plateau.

Good for you--the North Rim is fantastic. And there are many great camping
sites in the adjacent National Forest that give you potentially private
views into The Canyon, yet cost nothing to visit or even camp. If you need
help with this, stop in the Forest Service Visitor Center in Jacob Lake and
tell them you're looking for great camp sites in the Forest that overlook
The Canyon and describe the vehicle you'll be driving and your
ability/desire to travel Forest Roads. Hey, while there, have a meal and the
Jacob Lake Lodge (some of the best cookies made by someone other than me
came from here). Try your best to have the vehicle gassed up sufficiently
not to need to buy gas in Jacob Lake or the North Rim. If you end up needing
gas, I've found the Jacob Lake and the North Rim are nearly equally as
pricey--and depending on the date you'll be there, it's hard to predict
which will be less expensive.

I've lived in northern AZ now for ten years and do a lot of day-hiking. I
think I've come across about six rattlesnakes (most if not all were
black-tailed rattlers, less aggressive than some others). A couple were
quite large and gave me a great adrenaline rush. I doubt that scorpions will
be seen in the high country but as you drop in elevation, they're certainly
possible. Like most of the USA, spiders like black widows and brown recluses
could possibly be found--and you'd do well to try not to have them bite you,
either. And, not meaning to scare you, but remember that in most of the
areas you're planning to visit, medical care can be many many miles away and
passers-by and telephone communications can be minimal, so it's always a
good idea to minimize risk-taking, whether we're talking of your driving
habits, hikes, etc.

I don't know of your total vacation time in the area and how much hiking
you'll do so it's hard to predict your risk. It's certainly possible that
you'll not interact with any dangerous creature and quite possibly not even
see a single one. I'd suggest that you not lose any sleep over this and that
you not alter your vacation plans. Personally, when camping, I would sleep
in a closed tent to avoid a night-time visit by any creepy-crawly.

Craig in Flagstaff.

Thank you all for the clarification on the Mid-West/South-West. The US
are bigger than I thought: Utah seemed to be in the middle of the West,
and it turns out to be that there is still a lot of distance until that
middle

We will avoid hiking anywhere except for clearly visible tracks, no
rests on any logs, boulders etc. Caring a walk-stick would be an
overkill I guess, because we'll keep shy of grass anyway

The only risk I can imagine is our overnight at the North Rim Camp
Ground where we've already booked a place for a tent for one night. But
I hope it will be crowded enough so that there are no rattlers within a
mile's radius. Zipping the tent up, of course.

I was seriously frightened after browsing through
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/
How could that have happened?

Fiance wrote:

Thank you all for the clarification on the Mid-West/South-West. The US
are bigger than I thought: Utah seemed to be in the middle of the West,
and it turns out to be that there is still a lot of distance until that
middle

We will avoid hiking anywhere except for clearly visible tracks, no
rests on any logs, boulders etc. Caring a walk-stick would be an
overkill I guess, because we'll keep shy of grass anyway

The only risk I can imagine is our overnight at the North Rim Camp
Ground where we've already booked a place for a tent for one night. But
I hope it will be crowded enough so that there are no rattlers within a
mile's radius. Zipping the tent up, of course.

I was seriously frightened after browsing through
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/
How could that have happened?


Most serious hurt from rattlesnakes comes from contact with a large
underground den. There is certainly a fair amount of danger if you get
close to and frighten a large snake. As you note they are unlikely in a
busy campground.

Actually I think the greater danger comes from chipmunks. Or at least
the diseases that they carry. You really don't want to track that
stuff. Stay away from all wild animals even cute ones. For both their
good and for yours. Watch from a distance.

As to walking sticks I recommend them for a variety of reasons. Trails
are often not groomed european tracks and are slippery when wet. A
stick can often help keep you upright. Since they are cold I doubt that
they would help with snakes very much. Heavy boots will do wonders.

"Fiance" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thank you all for the clarification on the Mid-West/South-West. The US
are bigger than I thought: Utah seemed to be in the middle of the West,
and it turns out to be that there is still a lot of distance until that
middle

We will avoid hiking anywhere except for clearly visible tracks, no
rests on any logs, boulders etc. Caring a walk-stick would be an
overkill I guess, because we'll keep shy of grass anyway

The only risk I can imagine is our overnight at the North Rim Camp
Ground where we've already booked a place for a tent for one night. But
I hope it will be crowded enough so that there are no rattlers within a
mile's radius. Zipping the tent up, of course.


The North Rim is too high and cold for rattlesnakes, its over 8000ft
above sea level and is more alpine than anything else. The only major
wildlife hazard is the risk of hitting a deer if driving after dark !

Seriously motor accidents are the real hazard, last time I was
there someone swerved to avoid a deer in the road and rolled
his pickup. They had to medflight him out and he wasnt expected to
survive as he wasnt wearing a seat belt and the truck rolled over him
after he was ejected.

Keith

"Fiance" wrote...

Thank you all for the clarification on the Mid-West/South-West. The US
are bigger than I thought: Utah seemed to be in the middle of the West,
and it turns out to be that there is still a lot of distance until that
middle

Those of us that live here in The States know where the various regions
are but many of the names admittedly make little sense. Having lived in
Wisconsin, and then Cincinnati, Ohio for 22 years, I always thought the
Midwest is far too east to make any sense--but it probably goes back to the
pre-Louisiana Purchase days when anything west of the Appalachians was
getting to be Westerly--and St Louis and other towns west of the Mississippi
River were the real West. Odd as it sounds, one of Cincinnati's nicknames
is "Queen City of the West". Of course, another was Porkopolis. Personally,
I'd say the Midwest is anything west of the Appalachians (including about
half of Pennsylvania! but none of West Virginia), north of the Ohio River
and maybe going just a smidge west of the Mississippi River and proceeding
northwards to the Canadian border. Within my Midwest is a majority of the
Great Lakes States to further muddle issues. What geographically looks like
it should be The Midwest already has another name: The Great Plains. They
pick up from almost the Mississippi River to the Rockies excluding Texas
(which I'd call a region in and of itself). Then again, if Arizona and Utah
are in the Southwest, shouldn't Tennessee and Alabama be in the Southeast?
But no...they're in The South. And of course, The South doesn't include
Florida (from its population today, Florida may be best called the
southernmost state of the Great Lakes).

I was seriously frightened after browsing through
http://www.rattlesnakebite.org/
How could that have happened?

Yowser, no wonder you asked! Yikes. Thank heavens the family had insurance
and was in a park with reasonable communications and rescue personnel. Being
bitten on a hiking trail with no advance audible warning from the snake
seems to be a freak accident--to me at least.

Craig

"Frank F. Matthews" wrote...

Actually I think the greater danger comes from chipmunks. Or at least the
diseases that they carry. You really don't want to track that stuff.
Stay away from all wild animals even cute ones. For both their good and
for yours. Watch from a distance.

Chipmunks, prairie dogs, skunks, mice, etc. Let's see, there's plague,
hanta virus, rabies and probably more that I'm forgetting. Welcome to the
Southwest.

Craig (still healthy in Flagstaff)

If you're going to be in that area , you ought to go snipe hunting.
It's best right at dusk.