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  #21  
Old January 4th, 2013, 11:40 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Tom P[_6_]
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Posts: 563
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

On 01/04/2013 07:41 AM, Erick T. Barkhuis wrote:
Tom P:


Is there a place or places in Germany where Hochdeutsch is the
local dialect?


Yes. Generally spoken in the area around and between Osnabrück and
Hannover.


Hochdeutsch technically refers to the distinction to Plattdeutsch
(Low German) and other dialects, but generally it is what Standard
German is called, and I think that is what Dan means. Standard German
is the natural language everywhere and nowhere - even in Lower
Saxony, there are local accents, and some people speak a variety of
Plattdeutsch, which nobody else understands.


Absolutely correct.
In my region, in the west of Lower Saxony, a dialect consisting of
Saxonian and Dutch phrases, spoken with a weird accent, is common.
Among each other, locals all usually speak this dialect, which is hard
for me to understand (although I'm practically fluent in German and
Dutch is my native tongue). When I'm joining a group of neighbours,
most of them politely switch to Hochdeutsch, so I can converse along
with them.


Some dialects are more or less mutually incomprehensible.


Correct.
In five weeks from now, the carnival speakers will demonstrate this on
TV again. Even relatively close neighbours (geographically spoken) from
Mainz and Cologne will have trouble to fully understand each others'
dialect.

I've just finished watching Monika Gruber, a popular female comedian, on
Bavarian TV. When she performs on west German TV channels, she speaks
standard German with a Bavarian accent, but performing on tonight's show
in front of a live audience in Munich, she was speaking dialect and I
could only understand about half of the jokes.
  #22  
Old January 5th, 2013, 03:27 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Dan Stephenson
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Posts: 591
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

On 2013-01-04 15:37:27 -0600, JohnT said:

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
On 1/4/2013 4:54 AM, Surreyman wrote:

This is all hardly surprising.
Even accents within the UK can cause problems, even with no dialect words.
I (from Surrey) once had to 'translate' my MD's Paisley (Scotland)
accent in a Pennsylvania business meeting!

And I've had to translate between Lowland Scots and Texans. Both sides
believed themselves to be speaking English.


The denizens of Birmingham also believe that English is their native language.


There is a TV show in America call The Ultimate Fighter, there mixed
martial artists fight in a bracket competition. A few years back there
was US vs UK series of it, and it chagrined some of the Britons that
they had to have subtitles. :-)

--
Dan Stephenson
http://stepheda.com
Travel pages for Europe and the U.S.A. (and New Zealand too)

  #23  
Old January 5th, 2013, 09:45 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Erick T. Barkhuis[_3_]
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Posts: 180
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

Tom P:

I've just finished watching Monika Gruber, a popular female comedian,
on Bavarian TV. When she performs on west German TV channels, she
speaks standard German with a Bavarian accent, but performing on
tonight's show in front of a live audience in Munich, she was
speaking dialect and I could only understand about half of the jokes.


_Bavarian_ jokes, Tom!
Do you really feel you missed something, there? :-)
  #24  
Old January 5th, 2013, 02:44 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Tom P[_6_]
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Posts: 563
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

On 01/05/2013 09:45 AM, Erick T. Barkhuis wrote:
Tom P:

I've just finished watching Monika Gruber, a popular female comedian,
on Bavarian TV. When she performs on west German TV channels, she
speaks standard German with a Bavarian accent, but performing on
tonight's show in front of a live audience in Munich, she was
speaking dialect and I could only understand about half of the jokes.


_Bavarian_ jokes, Tom!
Do you really feel you missed something, there? :-)

Well, the audience thought they were funny g
  #25  
Old January 5th, 2013, 02:45 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Tom P[_6_]
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Posts: 563
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

On 01/05/2013 09:45 AM, Erick T. Barkhuis wrote:
Tom P:

I've just finished watching Monika Gruber, a popular female comedian,
on Bavarian TV. When she performs on west German TV channels, she
speaks standard German with a Bavarian accent, but performing on
tonight's show in front of a live audience in Munich, she was
speaking dialect and I could only understand about half of the jokes.


_Bavarian_ jokes, Tom!
Do you really feel you missed something, there? :-)


At one point she was making jokes about the Austrians I think..

  #26  
Old January 5th, 2013, 09:08 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Erilar
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Posts: 599
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

S Viemeister wrote:
On 1/4/2013 4:54 AM, Surreyman wrote:

This is all hardly surprising.
Even accents within the UK can cause problems, even with no dialect words.
I (from Surrey) once had to 'translate' my MD's Paisley (Scotland)
accent in a Pennsylvania business meeting!

And I've had to translate between Lowland Scots and Texans. Both sides
believed themselves to be speaking English.


I had severe difficulty understand a woman in an ice cream truck in Wales
8-)
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
  #27  
Old January 5th, 2013, 09:08 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Erilar
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Posts: 599
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

Tom P wrote:


Hochdeutsch technically refers to the distinction to Plattdeutsch (Low
German) and other dialects, but generally it is what Standard German is
called, and I think that is what Dan means. Standard German is the
natural language everywhere and nowhere - even in Lower Saxony, there are
local accents, and some people speak a variety of Plattdeutsch, which
nobody else understands.
http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattd%C3%BC%C3%BCtsch
More or less by definition, all educated Germans can speak Standard
German, but they may well speak with their regional accent, or they may
also switch to a local dialect when they want to. Some dialects are more
or less mutually incomprehensible. I live in the Rhineland, and the local
accent and dialect sound totally normal for me, for someone from Bavaria
or Stuttgart they might well sound very strange. Conversely, I have
severe problems understanding any one from Bavaria or Stuttgart when he
drops into his local dialect.


Regional accents vary in severity 8-). I suspect Bavarian causes more
problems in this respect 8-). However, exposure makes a difference. Having
studied and worked in the Ruhr, it takes a heavy dose of Kohlpott to throw
me completely, and I've spent enough time in Schwaben(great castles!) that
the same is pretty much true. Elsewhere, too strong a local accent throws
me off faster, but I've never had trouble BEING understood.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
  #28  
Old January 5th, 2013, 10:29 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
S Viemeister[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 407
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

On 1/5/2013 3:08 PM, Erilar wrote:
S Viemeister wrote:
On 1/4/2013 4:54 AM, Surreyman wrote:

This is all hardly surprising.
Even accents within the UK can cause problems, even with no dialect words.
I (from Surrey) once had to 'translate' my MD's Paisley (Scotland)
accent in a Pennsylvania business meeting!

And I've had to translate between Lowland Scots and Texans. Both sides
believed themselves to be speaking English.


I had severe difficulty understand a woman in an ice cream truck in Wales
8-)

Was she speaking Welsh?
  #29  
Old January 6th, 2013, 02:32 PM posted to rec.travel.europe
Erilar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 599
Default German language in south Tirol Back on topic - Lake Garda

S Viemeister wrote:
On 1/5/2013 3:08 PM, Erilar wrote:
S Viemeister wrote:
On 1/4/2013 4:54 AM, Surreyman wrote:

This is all hardly surprising.
Even accents within the UK can cause problems, even with no dialect words.
I (from Surrey) once had to 'translate' my MD's Paisley (Scotland)
accent in a Pennsylvania business meeting!

And I've had to translate between Lowland Scots and Texans. Both sides
believed themselves to be speaking English.


I had severe difficulty understand a woman in an ice cream truck in Wales
8-)

Was she speaking Welsh?

No, it was supposedly English 8-)

--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad
  #30  
Old January 12th, 2013, 09:19 AM posted to rec.travel.europe
Erick T. Barkhuis[_3_]
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Posts: 180
Default German language in south Tirol

Wolfgang Schwanke:

"Erick T. Barkhuis" wrote in
:

Tom P:


Is there a place or places in Germany where Hochdeutsch is the
local dialect?


Yes. Generally spoken in the area around and between Osnabrück and
Hannover.


No not really, that's a legend.


Have you been around that area, lately?
(I just returned from a bakery store in Bad Essen. Staff and customers
all speak Hochdeutsch, there. Without any local accent.)
 




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