Barbecues at Grand Canyon North Rim!!

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:46:28 -0700, SMS
wrote:

Keith Willshaw wrote:
wrote in message
...
not exactly barbq, not in the sense of hanging out spinning the meet
with a beer and a flipper....

but a george foreman grill, and a plug in power converter for the
car....

good to go.....

While I use my George Foreman grill quite a lot I suspect
that it would flatten my car battery before even warming
the steak through let alone cooking it.

No it wouldn't because a plug-in power inverter will not power a George
Foreman grill. The power converter would simply shut down.

Now if you bought a 1000 watt power inverter and attached it directly to
your car battery with heavy duty cables, and ran the car engine, you
could do it. Without the engine running you could still probably get 20
minutes or so of grilling time and still be able to start the car
afterward.

Of course, you might not want to risk a dead battery at the North
Rim...

I am somewhat surprised that no one has suggested the old tried and true -
wrap your steak - together with onions, carrots, mushrooms, etc - in heavy
aluminum foil while still a hundred miles or so from your destination and
place it securely under the hood of your car on top of the engine block.
Placing all the makings in one of those heavy aluminum cake pans before the
wrapping might be a good idea. The fastidious would have previously steam
cleaned the engine. Stop every 15-20 minutes to check doneness of your
meal, turning it over (in that cake pan) as needed. When you meal is cooked
to your satisfaction, place it in a good insulated cooler. Take out at
dinner time and enjoy. No appliance to clean up afterwards, no battery
problems, no power converter requirements, no fuss, no bother.

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Keith Willshaw wrote:
wrote in message
...
not exactly barbq, not in the sense of hanging out spinning the meet
with a beer and a flipper....

but a george foreman grill, and a plug in power converter for the
car....

good to go.....

While I use my George Foreman grill quite a lot I suspect
that it would flatten my car battery before even warming
the steak through let alone cooking it.

No it wouldn't because a plug-in power inverter will not power a George
Foreman grill. The power converter would simply shut down.

Now if you bought a 1000 watt power inverter and attached it directly to
your car battery with heavy duty cables, and ran the car engine, you could
do it.

Most cars have an alternator good for 45 amps at most and that
level of power output requires the engine be doing at least 3000 rpm
Thats going to give you maybe 600 wats, not enough for even the
smaller model grills

A 1000 watt grill will need to pull 80 amps at 12 volts

Without the engine running you could still probably get 20 minutes or so
of grilling time and still be able to start the car afterward.

Car batteries are rated in amphours and the standard battery
fitted to midsize cars is rated at around 80 amp hours. However
those ratings are for ideal conditions at optimum discharge rates

Actual rates are predicted by Peukert's Law which predicts the
actual discharge time at different discharge rates

At very high discharge rates the effective Amphour`rate
may be half the standard 100 hour`rate. For example a
100 A-H battery discharged at a five amp rate will last 20 hours
but the same battery discharged at 20 amps will not last 5 hours
but might only last 3 hours and 20 minutes.. Discharge it at 100 amps
and you might get 20 minutes but you'd likely damage the battery
in the process.
..
Actually what you want to do is to bring along a deep-cycle battery to run
the inverter off of. Better yet, buy a 12 volt grill, and grill nice and
slow....


Thats a good idea, when I had a caravan I used a second deepcycle
battery with a relay to stop the tow car battery being discharged.
This was used to drive fluorescent lights via an inverter however
a deep cycle battery isnt an option for the OP who will be driving
a rental car.

See
"http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-cooking/12-volt-portable-grill.htm".
However many cigarette lighter plugs are fused at 10 amps, so even this
may need to be connected directly to the battery.


At 180 watts it uses a LOT less power than a Geoge Foreman Grill

Actually, a slow cooker is more suitable for long drives, see
"http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-cooking/12-volt-portable-slow-cooker-crock-pot.htm".

While you're going down the freeway, your beef stew can be slow cooking.

Or just wrap the meat in foil and wire it to the exhaust manifold.

Keith

On Apr 9, 1:53 pm, "Keith Willshaw" wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message

...



Keith Willshaw wrote:
wrote in message
...
not exactly barbq, not in the sense of hanging out spinning the meet
with a beer and a flipper....

but a george foreman grill, and a plug in power converter for the
car....

good to go.....

While I use my George Foreman grill quite a lot I suspect
that it would flatten my car battery before even warming
the steak through let alone cooking it.

No it wouldn't because a plug-in power inverter will not power a George
Foreman grill. The power converter would simply shut down.

Now if you bought a 1000 watt power inverter and attached it directly to
your car battery with heavy duty cables, and ran the car engine, you could
do it.

Most cars have an alternator good for 45 amps at most and that
level of power output requires the engine be doing at least 3000 rpm
Thats going to give you maybe 600 wats, not enough for even the
smaller model grills

A 1000 watt grill will need to pull 80 amps at 12 volts

Without the engine running you could still probably get 20 minutes or so
of grilling time and still be able to start the car afterward.

Car batteries are rated in amphours and the standard battery
fitted to midsize cars is rated at around 80 amp hours. However
those ratings are for ideal conditions at optimum discharge rates

Actual rates are predicted by Peukert's Law which predicts the
actual discharge time at different discharge rates

At very high discharge rates the effective Amphour`rate
may be half the standard 100 hour`rate. For example a
100 A-H battery discharged at a five amp rate will last 20 hours
but the same battery discharged at 20 amps will not last 5 hours
but might only last 3 hours and 20 minutes.. Discharge it at 100 amps
and you might get 20 minutes but you'd likely damage the battery
in the process.
.

Actually what you want to do is to bring along a deep-cycle battery to run
the inverter off of. Better yet, buy a 12 volt grill, and grill nice and
slow....

Thats a good idea, when I had a caravan I used a second deepcycle
battery with a relay to stop the tow car battery being discharged.
This was used to drive fluorescent lights via an inverter however
a deep cycle battery isnt an option for the OP who will be driving
a rental car.

See
"http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-cooking/12-volt-portable-grill.htm".
However many cigarette lighter plugs are fused at 10 amps, so even this
may need to be connected directly to the battery.

At 180 watts it uses a LOT less power than a Geoge Foreman Grill

Actually, a slow cooker is more suitable for long drives, see
"http://www.roadtrucker.com/12-volt-cooking/12-volt-portable-slow-cook...".

While you're going down the freeway, your beef stew can be slow cooking.

Or just wrap the meat in foil and wire it to the exhaust manifold.

Keith



I didnt realize the foreman grill used so much power.....best to avoid
my advice all together....

On Apr 8, 1:32 am, "KGB" (KGB) wrote:
Hi

My wife and I (from the UK) have a cabin booked for a few nights at
the Grand Canyon North Rim at the end of May. The regulations clearly
state that cooking is not allowed in the cabin - fair enough.

However, virtually every cabin we have stayed at throughout the US
Southwest on previous trips have had a barbecue stand outside the
cabin. Do the cabins at the GC North Rim have barbecue stands?? If
not, if we took our own small barbecue - would that be permitted
outside the cabin??

I don't know of National Park Service areas where grilling would be
allowed outside the cabin. It poses a certain fire risk. I know in
Yosemite there are specific restrictions that don't allow visitors to
use grills except in areas (picnic sites and campgrounds) with
established fire rings. It doesn't mean one can't use a portable
grill, but that allowed areas are marked with existing fire rings or
grills. Of course there are black bears, which can make things
interesting.

Here's the 2005 Grand Canyon Superindendent's Compendium of rules:

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/upload/compen.pdf

I think I found the rule:

Alternatively, are there picnic areas with barbecues at the North Rim?
We have actually stayed at the North Rim Campground, but that was 15
years ago and whilst the pitches had the usual built-in barbecue (I
assume it hasn't changed), I cannot recollect any picnic areas for
general use.

http://www.nps.gov/grca/parkmgmt/fire_info.htm

"Although the fire danger rating at the Grand Canyon is moderate, the
NPS still asks visitors and residents to be cautious when dealing with
possible sources of ignition. To ensure public safety and to provide
the highest degree of protection to park resources, please observe the
following regulations:

*
Keep campfires in established fire pits and grills in
campgrounds and picnic areas along the rims and in fire pans along the
Colorado River.
*
Use an ashtray when smoking."

I think your biggest worry might be the animals. The squirrels are
extremely aggressive, as are the ravens.

Similarly, what is the situation at Zion NP? We have a cabin booked
there before the Grand Canyon.

There is no way you're going to be able to grill outside your cabin or
the lodge at Zion. When I visited, I went to the campfire program at
the Watchman Campground. They substituted a real campfire with an
image on the screen. Their superintendent banned all campfires and
restricted cooking to the use of gas stoves or grills.

Regards - and thanks in advance.

If you want to do your own cooking, you might be better off with a
standard canister propane stove. Those run into fewer restrictions,
although you might still be limited to where you're allowed to use it.

wrap your steak ... place it securely under the hood...
The fastidious would have previously steam cleaned the engine...
Stop every 15-20 minutes to check doneness...
No appliance to clean up afterwards
no fuss, no bother

MIght be fun to try that technique sometime, but it doesn't exactly
sound like "no fuss, no bother". A small electric grill (like those
George Forman grills) can be set up in seconds and cleaning afterwards
takes maybe one minute.

James

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:10:32 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


wrap your steak ... place it securely under the hood...
The fastidious would have previously steam cleaned the engine...
Stop every 15-20 minutes to check doneness...
No appliance to clean up afterwards
no fuss, no bother

MIght be fun to try that technique sometime, but it doesn't exactly
sound like "no fuss, no bother". A small electric grill (like those
George Forman grills) can be set up in seconds and cleaning afterwards
takes maybe one minute.

As long as you have someplace to plug it in.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

A small electric grill can be set up in seconds ...
..
As long as you have someplace to plug it in.

True; I was assuming the cabins had electricity.

James

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:27:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

A small electric grill can be set up in seconds ...
.
As long as you have someplace to plug it in.

True; I was assuming the cabins had electricity.

Hi

Good idea folks, but as the OP of this topic, a few further questions
if I may.

Where do I buy a small 110V electric grill in England (As I said, I
live in the UK, where mains voltage is 240V) - or does it just mean
the food will take half the time to cook in the USA?

Assuming I can buy a suitable 110V electric grill in England, do I put
it in my check-in baggage or is it allowed in my carry on bag? - it
occurs to me that if I take it into the aircraft cabin with me, I can
cook my own meals on the plane and not have to eat that nasty airline
food.

Having used my smart new electric grill a couple of times in the USA,
do I just throw it away before I fly home or should I take the chance
of being able to buy a suitable transformer back in the UK?

Does the phrase "No cooking allowed inside cabins" at the Grand Canyon
- as stated in my original post - only apply to large fixed domestic
cookers and large gas barbecues, or are small portable cookers
excluded from the park regulations?

In the other hand, I could just stick to my original idea and either
just buy a bag of charcoal on arriving in the USA - like I have on my
many previous visits - or possibly, as we won't be bringing our tent
this time but are staying in cabins (and have rented a houseboat on
Lake Powell), just buy half a dozen disposable barbecues at Wal-Mart.

I don't really fancy eating in restaurants with the likes of sharkx35.

Regards (tongue firmly in cheek) 8^)

P.S. Joking apart, my wife and I have visited the US Southwest many
times before and have never had any problems with using a charcoal
barbecue (except in Utah during the big drought of 2002 when charcoal
was banned, so we bought a small gas camping stove to use). The
scenery is magnificent, we return as often as we can afford it
(usually with our tent) and have met many delightful Americans in
campgrounds. We usually bring our tent because we can then sleep in
remote campgrounds, cooking our meals surrounded by the most stunning
scenery imaginable - impossible in England where you usually cannot
see the scenery (or use a barbecue) for the mist and rain.







KGB

Where do I buy a small 110V electric grill in England ...

Don't know, but it would be easy to buy one after you arrive in the
U.S. They are available at most of the big retailers like Wal-Mart,
etc.


it occurs to me that if I take it into the aircraft cabin with me, I can
cook my own meals on the plane

I know you're kidding, but there actually have been cases of people
trying to cook/heat their own food on commercial flights, using
candles, sterno, etc. A fire started that way on a flight in India a
few years ago.


Does the phrase "No cooking allowed inside cabins" ...
[apply to] small portable cookers

I assume it would apply to all cooking devices.


have met many delightful Americans in campgrounds. *

Glad to hear that. Hope you enjoy your vacation.

James

On Apr 11, 6:36 am, wrote:
Where do I buy a small 110V electric grill in England ...

Don't know, but it would be easy to buy one after you arrive in the
U.S. They are available at most of the big retailers like Wal-Mart,
etc.

it occurs to me that if I take it into the aircraft cabin with me, I can
cook my own meals on the plane

I know you're kidding, but there actually have been cases of people
trying to cook/heat their own food on commercial flights, using
candles, sterno, etc. A fire started that way on a flight in India a
few years ago.

Isn't airport security sensitive about people bringing flammable
liquids or ignition devices these days? A Sterno can would definitely
show up on x-ray. Matches would likely be confiscated. I'm also
under the impression that smoking on flights is rarely allowed these
days.

Does the phrase "No cooking allowed inside cabins" ...
[apply to] small portable cookers

I assume it would apply to all cooking devices.

Cooking tends to leave more smells than anything else. As far as I
can tell, most NPS properties will allow you to eat outside or eat
inside hard-sided cabins. Eating in tent cabins is a disaster in
places with black bears (like Yosemite). I will admit to using a
backpacking stove on the porch of a cabin once (I won't say where). I
was just making a cup of coffee, and I doubt it would have been any
different to the local wildlife than if I had walked to the nearby
coffee bar and brought back a cup of coffee or even an espresso (I'm
not kidding about the espresso bar).

I always wondered about outdoor dining areas like the Curry Village
Pizza Patio at Yosemite or the outdoor grill at the Lodgepole snack
bar in Sequoia NP. Curry Village has loads of animal-proof trash cans
and workers are clearing them out all the time. I've seen areas with
less maintenance where the cans are overflowing and can't even be
closed; bears must enjoy those. At Lodgepole I was told that they had
little problem because the bears shy away from that many people, and
they even have a non bear-proof trash can which gets cleaned out often
and taken inside after closing.

One of my favorite experiences was the Roosevelt Old West Cookout at
Yellowstone. They have a big 'ol cooking setup in the middle of bear
and bison country. I asked if there was ever a problem with bears,
which was generally no. However - they have had bison show up
uninvited causing people to scatter.

http://www.travelyellowstone.com/gal...20051130114722