Corrupt Malaysian politics....as usual in Muslim countries

On Tue, 25 May 2004 09:30:48 +0800, Dave Baker
wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

Except in Canada for some reason. My boss is Canadian & often points out
cases of corruption there in the ruling party - seems they get away with it
every time!

Actually from that page there is a link marked "Handling Scandal: How Canada
measures up" which is quite interesting, and appears to back up my
perceptions that Canada does have more of these partisan scandals than other
"equivalent" countries.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/gr...gscandal3.html

I'll have to show that to my boss the next time I see him.

Dave

The email address used for sending these postings is not valid.
All replies to the group please.

Dave Baker wrote:

Except in Canada for some reason. My boss is Canadian & often points out
cases of corruption there in the ruling party - seems they get away with it
every time!
Actually from that page there is a link marked "Handling Scandal: How Canada
measures up" which is quite interesting, and appears to back up my
perceptions that Canada does have more of these partisan scandals than other
"equivalent" countries.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/gr...gscandal3.html
That webpage is very interesting. Thanks for the link.

However I still disagree about your main point of corruption in the west
& the rest. Germany had a corruption scandal implicating Helmut Kohl.
The USA recently has had a lot of corruption scandals also, like Martha
Stewart and Enron. The american lobbying and campaign-financing system
is also questionable.

And another way to get ripped off in a country with GATT and free trade
agreements, is to pay 30$(plus taxes) for a shirt that you can buy for
3$ in asia. You don't get robbed at gunpoint, but your wallet ends up
in the same state afterwards. Costs should go down and quality go up,
not the reverse as is happening right now (at least in Canada).

The tipping system can also be considered a form of bribe. Forget to
pay the 'voluntary' amount and there might be consequences.

On Mon, 24 May 2004 22:45:44 -0400, Madonna wrote:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/gr...gscandal3.html

That webpage is very interesting. Thanks for the link.

However I still disagree about your main point of corruption in the west
& the rest. Germany had a corruption scandal implicating Helmut Kohl.

I haven't followed what happened to him (if anything).

The USA recently has had a lot of corruption scandals also, like Martha
Stewart and Enron.

All in jail or close to it.

The american lobbying and campaign-financing system
is also questionable.

Yeah, I come from a country where the US system also seems questionable. Not
sure that it is corrupt though... It is legal - maybe legal corruption? :-)

My main point I was trying to get across is that the "evil-doers" in Canada
seem to regularly get away with their billion dollar scandals! There doesn't
appear to have been a Prime Minister in the last 30 or 40 years who hasn't
skimmed all the cream off the top & gotten away scott-free.

And another way to get ripped off in a country with GATT and free trade
agreements, is to pay 30$(plus taxes) for a shirt that you can buy for
3$ in asia.

Well, would you in Asia want to buy (or be able to afford) a $30 shirt? Maybe
the Asians paying $3 are being subsidizing the Europeans paying $30 - which
is ok - they can afford to. I don't really see that as corruption. In Europe
if you own a shop you have a lot more inspections so your fire sprinklers
have to work, you need proper emergency exits, you pay higher taxes, higher
wages, etc, so it's only natural that you would pay more for these sort of
products. It's happening everywhere - items are more expensive in Singapore
than Malaysia for example.

The tipping system can also be considered a form of bribe. Forget to
pay the 'voluntary' amount and there might be consequences.

Again, I come from a country where tipping just isn't done. However, I have
spent some months working & living in the USA, and I can tell you that the
level of service I experienced almost everywhere was far superior to that in
my country, or even Asia. I'd certainly prefer to pay a tip for good service
than be forced to pay the 10% service charge here in Malaysia in a place
where the service was absolute crap. At least voluntary tipping gives you a
chance to make a statement & the tips probably go to the people that deserve
it - I know the 10% service charge doesn't get handed out to the staff in
some establishments here.

Dave

The email address used for sending these postings is not valid.
All replies to the group please.

Madonna wrote in news:8Zwsc.25311$tb4.771052
@news20.bellglobal.com:

Subject: Corrupt Malaysian politics....as usual in Muslim
countries
From: Madonna
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia,soc.culture.malaysia

mark wrote:
Bribes are not a way of life in western societies, while many asian
and
middle eastern coutries have bribery as an expected part of life.

Maybe you just don't want to see what's in your backyard.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/


Sorry, I'm not Canadian, or American for that matter.


Human nature is the same everywhere.
The scams in western countries are just more subtle.


Perhaps, but I would be shocked to have an official (policeman,
politician or otherwise) try and solicit a bribe from me in my own
country, whearas I would not be so suprised in say India, Pakistan,
China, or even Malaysia.

In America, sure, I'd not be suprised to see frequent corruption in
politics/big business, because from what I can see, American politics is
about money. I would however, be suprised even regarding America, to
hear people paying bribes to get off speeding tickets, get medicine, or
buy a fake drivers license for example.

As I said, "way of life", meaning expected in normal day to day life.

Do you think I am wrong?

On Mon, 24 May 2004 22:45:44 -0400, Madonna wrote:

[snip]
The tipping system can also be considered a form of bribe. Forget to
pay the 'voluntary' amount and there might be consequences.

Consequences like what, considering that the meal is over?

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

mark wrote:
Perhaps, but I would be shocked to have an official (policeman,
politician or otherwise) try and solicit a bribe from me in my own
country, whearas I would not be so suprised in say India, Pakistan,
China, or even Malaysia.

I don't deny what's happening with cops in Asia. I'm just saying
the western cops aren't so innocent either, but do it differently. For
example Bars that will get raided for serving liquor to minors often get
a tip-off. There are many ways to be corrupt, just because they won't
waive a parking ticket doesn't mean they don't get kickbacks in other ways.

In America, sure, I'd not be suprised to see frequent corruption in
politics/big business, because from what I can see, American politics is
about money. I would however, be suprised even regarding America, to
hear people paying bribes to get off speeding tickets, get medicine, or
buy a fake drivers license for example.
There's more than one way to be corrupt.

As I said, "way of life", meaning expected in normal day to day life.
OK That nuances things a bit. In day to day life I agree I don't
regularly bribe people in Canada (except for tips).

Do you think I am wrong?
No. But I don't remember bribing someone in asia. I guess it helped
that I stayed as far as I could from police because I read bad things.

ignoramus wrote:
On Sat, 22 May 2004 18:31:07 +0200, Alfred Molon
wrote:


Lim PE wrote:

just a URL will do
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southea.../FE21Ae03.html

Most asians [i] are less emotional than & not as caring as whites, about
dissidents' plights, dictators can do what they like.
http://www.economist.com/world/asia/...ory_id=1104763
[ii] will rebel only when they're hungry, e.g. phillipinos in '96, indos in
5-98, JB voters in '88. Or can be too hungry ( e.g. north koreans ) to
rebel.

Indeed. Most people in Malaysia don't care about Anwar.


I don't know about most people.

But I think quite a number care, just that they can't do anything
about it or they are numb to it all after such a long time.

Or they're scared of Malaysian jails like this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3743799.stm

Pan wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 22:45:44 -0400, Madonna wrote:
The tipping system can also be considered a form of bribe. Forget to
pay the 'voluntary' amount and there might be consequences.

Consequences like what, considering that the meal is over?

If you plan to go back to the restaurant you may have problems.

On Tue, 25 May 2004 12:16:41 -0400, Madonna wrote:

Pan wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2004 22:45:44 -0400, Madonna wrote:
The tipping system can also be considered a form of bribe. Forget to
pay the 'voluntary' amount and there might be consequences.

Consequences like what, considering that the meal is over?

If you plan to go back to the restaurant you may have problems.

Of course! But why is that a bribe? You're paying a waiter/waitress
for their services.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.

mark wrote in message ...
Madonna wrote in news:8Zwsc.25311$tb4.771052
@news20.bellglobal.com:

Subject: Corrupt Malaysian politics....as usual in Muslim
countries
From: Madonna
Newsgroups: rec.travel.asia,soc.culture.malaysia

mark wrote:
Bribes are not a way of life in western societies, while many asian
and
middle eastern coutries have bribery as an expected part of life.

Maybe you just don't want to see what's in your backyard.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/


Sorry, I'm not Canadian, or American for that matter.


Human nature is the same everywhere.
The scams in western countries are just more subtle.


Perhaps, but I would be shocked to have an official (policeman,
politician or otherwise) try and solicit a bribe from me in my own
country, whearas I would not be so suprised in say India, Pakistan,
China, or even Malaysia.

In Indonesia the cops setup road-blocks for the purpose of collecting
unofficial taxes. I had to make use of the service of a cop while I
was there and I had to pay a Rp50k bribe.

--mt.