Soon, new rules for foreigners visiting US

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:15:52 +0000, Reid
wrote:

Following up to Deep Freud Moors

(because people are made to
****, and nothing will change that)

Everybody knows this, especially advertising agencies,
unfortunately the catholic church and George Bush are exceptions.

Well, the catholics possibly know but have this problem that once
they say something it has to be true for ever.

Historically the Catholic church has gone through periods of
progression. This is not one of those times.
---
DFM

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:15:50 +0000, Reid
wrote:

Following up to Deep Freud Moors

Yeah, except that to allow immigration at levels whereby those poorer
countries can stabilise there own populations would cause enormous
tensions in whatever western countries they ended up in. I believe
India's population alone increases by about 20 million (2%) each year.
Try adding that to the west, and see how well they are accepted!

I wasn't suggesting it was an *acceptable* solution, just a
solution! Also the one we seem to be taking, without the
agreement of government or people.

OK, so there's a bit of brown in the gene pool... so what. We can't go
raising the drawbridge on paradise now, can we?

The fact is that immigration is a totally political thing, and we vote
for our pollies, thus we do have a say. We are lucky in that regard,
but even still, I think our democracies need an overhaul.

You guys must be set to kick Blair out soon, aren't you? )
---
DFM

Following up to Deep Freud Moors

I wasn't suggesting it was an *acceptable* solution, just a
solution! Also the one we seem to be taking, without the
agreement of government or people.

OK, so there's a bit of brown in the gene pool... so what. We can't go
raising the drawbridge on paradise now, can we?

I really don't think immigration is a colour issue, that's a red
herring, or should that be brown herring? People who don't want
to address problems like to scream racists, but immigration can
put big strains on things like public housing and education
wherever the immigrants come from, and replacing raising our own
children with young immigrants who don't necessarily share our
values is not without its dangers.
Anyway, I think longterm UK needs a smaller population, at least
in the south east so I would keep the drawbridge raised cue
"Jeruselem"and spend more on aid to spread our earthly paradise
everywhere.

The fact is that immigration is a totally political thing, and we vote
for our pollies, thus we do have a say. We are lucky in that regard,
but even still, I think our democracies need an overhaul.

That only works when the election is fought on a single issue and
then only for that issue. If I, say, want to leave the EU, ban
fox hunting and increase expenditure on policing and education by
higher taxes, how do I express this by a single vote? In any
case, as I live in a safe seat my vote makes no difference
anyway.

You guys must be set to kick Blair out soon, aren't you? )

Have you seen the alternative? Howard is one of the scariest men
in British politics. I wonder if the tories will collapse into
third party position as they seem hell bent on not modernising?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Magda" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:02:28 +1100, in rec.travel.europe, Deep Freud Moors
arranged some electrons, so they
looked like this:

... Yeah, except that to allow immigration at levels whereby those poorer
... countries can stabilise there own populations would cause enormous
... tensions in whatever western countries they ended up in. I believe
... India's population alone increases by about 20 million (2%) each
year.
... Try adding that to the west, and see how well they are accepted!
...
... Perhaps making condoms less accessible, and promoting abstinence
... through wholesome family values might work. If not, maybe we can
build
... a wall...

Or kill the baby girls, as India and China have been doing these past -
what, 25 years ?
:-((

Infanticide is illegal in China, and the law is enforced. Exposing of female
babies was practiced only in the poorest, most rural Chinese communities in
the western part of the country. By your inclusion of India, I'll assume
you're refering, not to exposure and other forms of infanticide, but to
abortion-for-sex-selection. Neither the Chinese, nor I, for that matter,
consider a fetus a baby or abortion killing. However, the only Chinese
inclined towards sex selection would be poor western peasants, who would not
have easy access to sonograms -- there are no sonogram clinics in China as
there are in India. China, particularly in the developed south central and
south east, does not population gender disparities, as does India (I read
that, in some places in India, the gender demographic has been shifted to as
much as 60/40, males to females).

"Magda" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:58:27 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "PTRAVEL"

arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :

... Infanticide is illegal in China, and the law is enforced. Exposing of
female
... babies was practiced only in the poorest, most rural Chinese
communities in
... the western part of the country. By your inclusion of India, I'll
assume
... you're refering, not to exposure and other forms of infanticide, but
to
... abortion-for-sex-selection. Neither the Chinese, nor I, for that
matter,
... consider a fetus a baby or abortion killing. However, the only
Chinese
... inclined towards sex selection would be poor western peasants, who
would not
... have easy access to sonograms -- there are no sonogram clinics in
China as
... there are in India. China, particularly in the developed south
central and
... south east, does not population gender disparities, as does India (I
read
... that, in some places in India, the gender demographic has been
shifted to as
... much as 60/40, males to females).

Infanticide is illegal almost everywhere - but the chinese orphanages full
of neglected,
left-to-die baby girls are real.

China's orphanages are full of baby girls given up for adoption by their
western peasant parents. I won't say exposure never happens anymore in
China, but it is not the problem you say it is. That is precisely why the
orphanages exist in the first place -- as an alternative to exposure.

And in India the custom was (is ?) slipping into the
newborn girl's mouth some grains of raw rice - she suffocates and dies
silently.

I don't know much about the practices in India. India and China have very,
very little in common.


Some 15 years ago I read that there was a shortage of about 25 million
women in India
already... I wonder what the number is now.

As I said, from what I've read, the disparity in India may be as high as
60/40. The same is not true for China.

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:00:18 +0000, Reid
wrote:

The fact is that immigration is a totally political thing, and we vote
for our pollies, thus we do have a say. We are lucky in that regard,
but even still, I think our democracies need an overhaul.

That only works when the election is fought on a single issue and
then only for that issue. If I, say, want to leave the EU, ban
fox hunting and increase expenditure on policing and education by
higher taxes, how do I express this by a single vote? In any
case, as I live in a safe seat my vote makes no difference
anyway.

There was a concept that floated around Oz about 10 years ago called
"voter veto", where any bill that was to be passed through parliament
could be vetoed if a certain number of people voiced their objection
to it. This would go a long way in addressing your issue.

Traditionally, it has been a cost issue, because elections etc. are
expensive, and so that was a factor in deciding how often they were
held. Given the accesibility of the internet in democratic countries
nowadays, I think there is definitely room to employ something like
this, even if it's not from a personal computer, but secure,
semi-permanent polling stations, or somesuch. Money well spent in my
view. In fact, I would consider that a bloody good tradeoff for having
a unique id assigned to every citizen in a country even.

Unfortunately, ideas like this only get implemented after bloody
revolutions and the like.
---
DFM

Following up to Deep Freud Moors

I would consider that a bloody good tradeoff for having
a unique id assigned to every citizen in a country even.

Yes, something for everyone.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking & photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:32:48 +1100, Deep Freud Moors wrote:

a unique id assigned to every citizen in a country

NI number, perhaps?
--
Tim.

If the human brain were simple enough that we could understand it, we would
be so simple that we couldn't.

Deep Freud Moors wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:00:18 +0000, Reid
wrote:

The fact is that immigration is a totally political thing, and we vote
for our pollies, thus we do have a say. We are lucky in that regard,
but even still, I think our democracies need an overhaul.

That only works when the election is fought on a single issue and
then only for that issue. If I, say, want to leave the EU, ban
fox hunting and increase expenditure on policing and education by
higher taxes, how do I express this by a single vote? In any
case, as I live in a safe seat my vote makes no difference
anyway.

There was a concept that floated around Oz about 10 years ago called
"voter veto", where any bill that was to be passed through parliament
could be vetoed if a certain number of people voiced their objection
to it. This would go a long way in addressing your issue.
[snip]

I had sorta a similar idea. Any law which could be shown in
court to be violated by 30% of the population, would become
void. Probably reek havoc with many speed limits on highways.
Absolutely destroy many drug laws as well. Intellectual property
laws might take a hit too.