Ping ATB.

Greg Procter wrote:

"Mr. Travel" wrote:


The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
they are already stated in our laws.
The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.

Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly
indicates our rights are not limited by the document.


The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.



LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
you yanks are soooo sad

What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
....... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?

"Mr. Travel" wrote:

Greg Procter wrote:



It wouldn't be a "Bill of Rights" if it wasn't written into law.
New Zealand was founded 150 years before 1990 so it's not a document
anyone cares about, it's not a document that makes any changes, it's not
a document that actually achieves anything.

So, why are you suggesting the rights of people are more restrictive
then the rights of people in NZ?

Why are you attempting to distinguish between the "rights of people" and
"the rights of people in NZ"?


We both have Bills of Rights. Both Bill
Of Rights are clearly NOT the only rights of the people in our
respective countries, except you have trouble comprehending the US
document that states this for US citiszens.

Your problem is that you are focused on your "Bill of Rights".
_Our_ rights are established in the Magna Carta of 1215 and subsequent
legal precident whereas yours are established by your "Bill of Rights",
incuding your amendment #9.



That is the document that is the basis of the laws that protect our
rights - yes, our law dates back, unbroken, to 1215.

Yes, and NZ is the only country in the world that would have used the
Magna Carta. I mean, it wouldn't be the basis for anything in the US,
right? WRONG.

WTF are you trying to say???

The 1215AD Magna Carta is the basis of our law. It's not derived from or
mimicked, it _is_ the basis of our law.




So, you don't understand the 9th Amendment?


Why would I care?

You stated the rights of US citizens were listed in the Constitution and
since only a few rights are listed, Americans don't have any others.
The 9th Amendment directly disputes your statement.

Sure, that's a part of your Bill of Rights".

Our "Bill of Rights" doesn't claim to hold our rights legally.

"Mr. Travel" wrote:

Greg Procter wrote:

"Mr. Travel" wrote:


The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
they are already stated in our laws.
The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.

Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly
indicates our rights are not limited by the document.


The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.



LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
you yanks are soooo sad

What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?


No, it lists some of our major rights.

Our Laws list those things we can't do - everything else is our "Right".

The UN considered that such a situation was unacceptable as we have very
few rights that are properly limited, as they are in the
US/Dictatorship/Tyrany/Feudal Monarchy models practiced in most of the
world.

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
wrote:

:
:"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: Greg Procter wrote:
:
: "Mr. Travel" wrote:
:
:
: The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: they are already stated in our laws.
: The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
:
: Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: our rights are not limited by the document.
:
:
:The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
:rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
:
:
:
: LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: you yanks are soooo sad
:
: What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
:
:Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
:appreciate....
:
:A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
:land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
:the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
:with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
:sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
:to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
:Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
:extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
:underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
:up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
:damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
:contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
:that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
:fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
:capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
:malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
:creek).
:
:Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
:Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
:strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
:"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
:pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
:"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
:their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
:Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
:circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
:collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
:but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
:their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
:rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
:actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
:
:So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
:behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
:which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
:over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
:on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
:of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
:including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
:more real freedoms.
:
:One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
:were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
:scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
:locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
:the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
:for their rights.
:
:When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
:

Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
has also said he is a Maori.

TMOliver wrote:

"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
Greg Procter wrote:

"Mr. Travel" wrote:


The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
they are already stated in our laws.
The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.

Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
our rights are not limited by the document.


The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.



LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
you yanks are soooo sad

What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?

Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
appreciate....

A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
the Maoris),

In spite of your totally racist attitude, we Maori are also people.
We've been here and settled since around 750AD.


a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
Magna Carta

If you bother to stop and think (obviously something you have difficulty
with) your King George was breaking the laws of his country and shuld
have been held to account.
You weak escapees took the easy way out and isolated yourselves.

which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights,


It's the basis of our laws - around here many of us still respect our
laws.

instead
extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
underclasses).

The Magna Carta placed restrictions and responsibilities on the Monarch
and Government. Perhaps you should try reading it.

The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
creek).

As I said, you decided on the cowards way out rather than insisting on
your rights in law.


Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.

We New Zealanders had the advantage of seeing just how bad your system
had become - we chose a different path.


So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
more real freedoms.

One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies.

One could say such stupid things.


Of course, in
the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
for their rights.



When was it that the Maoris got to vote?

1840 - the year NZ was founded as a British colony.
The whole point of our "Treaty of Waitangi" was that Maori became
British Citizens with exactly the same rights as settled immigrants from
Britain.

OTOH your Blackamoors and Aboriginals appear still to be waiting.

Sarah Czepiel wrote:

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
wrote:

:
:"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: Greg Procter wrote:
:
: "Mr. Travel" wrote:
:
:
: The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: they are already stated in our laws.
: The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
:
: Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: our rights are not limited by the document.
:
:
:The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
:rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
:
:
:
: LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: you yanks are soooo sad
:
: What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
:
:Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
:appreciate....
:
:A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
:land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
:the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
:with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
:sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
:to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
:Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
:extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
:underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
:up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
:damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
:contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
:that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
:fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
:capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
:malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
:creek).
:
:Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
:Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
:strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
:"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
:pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
:"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
:their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
:Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
:circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
:collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
:but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
:their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
:rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
:actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
:
:So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
:behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
:which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
:over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
:on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
:of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
:including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
:more real freedoms.
:
:One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
:were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
:scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
:locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
:the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
:for their rights.
:
:When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
:

Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
has also said he is a Maori.




Look it up - I'm registered Ngai Tahu.

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:46:35 +1300, Greg Procter
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
: wrote:
:
: :
: :"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: : Greg Procter wrote:
: :
: : "Mr. Travel" wrote:
: :
: :
: : The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: : state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: : they are already stated in our laws.
: : The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
: :
: : Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: : our rights are not limited by the document.
: :
: :
: :The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
: :rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
: :
: :
: :
: : LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: : you yanks are soooo sad
: :
: : What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: : You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: : ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
: :
: :Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
: :appreciate....
: :
: :A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
: :land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
: :the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
: :with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
: :sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
: :to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
: :Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
: :extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
: :underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
: :up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
: :damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
: :contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
: :that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
: :fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
: :capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
: :malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
: :creek).
: :
: :Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
: :Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
: :strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
: :"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
: :pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
: :"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
: :their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
: :Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
: :circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
: :collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
: :but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
: :their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
: :rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
: :actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
: :
: :So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
: :behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
: :which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
: :over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
: :on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
: :of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
: :including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
: :more real freedoms.
: :
: :One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
: :were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
: :scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
: :locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
: :the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
: :for their rights.
: :
: :When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
: :
:
: Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
: has also said he is a Maori.
:
:
:
:
:Look it up - I'm registered Ngai Tahu.

Why would I bother to look it up?

Sarah Czepiel wrote:

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:46:35 +1300, Greg Procter
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
: wrote:
:
: :
: :"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: : Greg Procter wrote:
: :
: : "Mr. Travel" wrote:
: :
: :
: : The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: : state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: : they are already stated in our laws.
: : The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
: :
: : Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: : our rights are not limited by the document.
: :
: :
: :The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
: :rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
: :
: :
: :
: : LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: : you yanks are soooo sad
: :
: : What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: : You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: : ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
: :
: :Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
: :appreciate....
: :
: :A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
: :land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
: :the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
: :with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
: :sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
: :to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
: :Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
: :extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
: :underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
: :up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
: :damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
: :contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
: :that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
: :fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
: :capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
: :malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
: :creek).
: :
: :Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
: :Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
: :strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
: :"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
: :pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
: :"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
: :their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
: :Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
: :circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
: :collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
: :but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
: :their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
: :rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
: :actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
: :
: :So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
: :behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
: :which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
: :over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
: :on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
: :of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
: :including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
: :more real freedoms.
: :
: :One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
: :were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
: :scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
: :locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
: :the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
: :for their rights.
: :
: :When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
: :
:
: Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
: has also said he is a Maori.
:
:
:
:
:Look it up - I'm registered Ngai Tahu.

Why would I bother to look it up?


I thought you liked doing that sort of thing.

Also, it would prove that I qualify as being 'Maori'.

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:58:03 +1300, Greg Procter
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:46:35 +1300, Greg Procter
: wrote:
:
: :Sarah Czepiel wrote:
: :
: : On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
: : wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: : : Greg Procter wrote:
: : :
: : : "Mr. Travel" wrote:
: : :
: : :
: : : The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: : : state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: : : they are already stated in our laws.
: : : The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
: : :
: : : Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: : : our rights are not limited by the document.
: : :
: : :
: : :The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
: : :rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : : LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: : : you yanks are soooo sad
: : :
: : : What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: : : You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: : : ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
: : :
: : :Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
: : :appreciate....
: : :
: : :A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
: : :land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
: : :the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
: : :with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
: : :sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
: : :to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
: : :Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
: : :extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
: : :underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
: : :up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
: : :damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
: : :contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
: : :that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
: : :fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
: : :capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
: : :malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
: : :creek).
: : :
: : :Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
: : :Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
: : :strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
: : :"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
: : :pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
: : :"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
: : :their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
: : :Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
: : :circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
: : :collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
: : :but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
: : :their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
: : :rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
: : :actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
: : :
: : :So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
: : :behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
: : :which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
: : :over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
: : :on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
: : :of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
: : :including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
: : :more real freedoms.
: : :
: : :One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
: : :were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
: : :scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
: : :locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
: : :the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
: : :for their rights.
: : :
: : :When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
: : :
: :
: : Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
: : has also said he is a Maori.
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :Look it up - I'm registered Ngai Tahu.
:
: Why would I bother to look it up?
:
:
:I thought you liked doing that sort of thing.
:
:Also, it would prove that I qualify as being 'Maori'.

If it means that much to you. Link please.

Sarah Czepiel wrote:

On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 10:58:03 +1300, Greg Procter
wrote:

:Sarah Czepiel wrote:
:
: On Fri, 01 Feb 2008 09:46:35 +1300, Greg Procter
: wrote:
:
: :Sarah Czepiel wrote:
: :
: : On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:45:26 -0600, "TMOliver"
: : wrote:
: :
: : :
: : :"Mr. Travel" wrote ...
: : : Greg Procter wrote:
: : :
: : : "Mr. Travel" wrote:
: : :
: : :
: : : The "NZ Bill of Rights" is a total irrelevance - it merely attempts to
: : : state some of the rights we already have in reverse manner to the way
: : : they are already stated in our laws.
: : : The "US Bill of Rights" is your base document.
: : :
: : : Correct, the Bill of Rights is our base document and it clearly indicates
: : : our rights are not limited by the document.
: : :
: : :
: : :The purpose of the 9th Ammendment was to clearly specify the
: : :rights outline in the Bill of Rights were NOT the only rights.
: : :
: : :
: : :
: : : LOL, so you're saying it negates the effects of the rest of the Bill.
: : : you yanks are soooo sad
: : :
: : : What about YOUR Bill of Rights.
: : : You have also stated it doesn't limit your rights.
: : : ...... But it sure as Hell lists them, doesn't it?
: : :
: : :Among the vast sum of human experience that Groggy fails to understand or
: : :appreciate....
: : :
: : :A long time ago, back when New Zealand was but an unknown distant loom of
: : :land upon the horizon, unvisited and unsettled by many if any (other than
: : :the Maoris), a big segment of the colonists in North America (most of them
: : :with roots and family origins in the Scuppered H'aisles) found that the
: : :sovereign, Fat George the Choleric and Porphyric, had allowed his government
: : :to exceed the bounds of common law and precedent (including the celebrated
: : :Magna Carta which has nothing to do with Groggy's natural rights, instead
: : :extending privileges to the nobility and actually repressing the
: : :underclasses). The revolted, declared their independence along the way, set
: : :up a government, and bested the armed forces of the UK, sent packing the
: : :damnable redcoats quartered in their midst (and homes - a point of
: : :contention addressed in the BoR) and assorted German hirelings - fitting
: : :that a family of hireling German princelings would hire more Germans to
: : :fight their battles, in a struggle culminating in Cornwallis's abject
: : :capitulation (with no little help from Johnny Crapaud along the way) on the
: : :malarial flats between the James and the Rappahannock (or some such tidal
: : :creek).
: : :
: : :Wandering along for a few years under the Articles of Confederation - New
: : :Zealand still hardly a gleam in greedy imperialists' eyes - the colonists
: : :strove to form a more perfect union, composed and adopted a written
: : :"Constitution", a lack of which had caused various of their forefathers a
: : :pack of hurt, since a long train of Kings had overlooked the traditional
: : :"Constitution by precedent, tradition, and common law" to royally **** over
: : :their subjects at countless opportunities. Cemented to the end of the
: : :Constitution was a list of broad areas in which future governments were
: : :circumscribed in the area of permissible ****ing over and individual and
: : :collective rights of the People were set forth, not all of them for sure,
: : :but the ones that the actions of English kings had made most aggravating to
: : :their former colonists. Left unlisted were all sorts of traditional natural
: : :rights, some like the right to privacy extrapolated and interpreted by
: : :actions of US courts over the two plus centuries since.
: : :
: : :So shocked had been the King and the folks of the UK by the revolting
: : :behavior of the colonists that the country soon started following a path in
: : :which sovereigns and their ministers were prevented from generally ****ing
: : :over the home folks (except in times of emergency - French scares, Krauts
: : :on the loose, Fuzzy Wuzzies unleashed, during which UK laws permit all sorts
: : :of ****ing over). As a result, a variety of UK colonial dependencies,
: : :including those settled by transported felons and randy sheepherders, gained
: : :more real freedoms.
: : :
: : :One could rightly say that most of those "rights" enjoyed by New Zealanders
: : :were secured because American colonists fought hard for their own, thus
: : :scaring British kings and governments into providing them for their own
: : :locals and at least the "White" residents of other colonies. Of course, in
: : :the colonies the poor blackamoors and aboriginals had to wait much longer
: : :for their rights.
: : :
: : :When was it that the Maoris got to vote?
: : :
: :
: : Yes, ahem well it should be noted that among his other claims Groggy
: : has also said he is a Maori.
: :
: :
: :
: :
: :Look it up - I'm registered Ngai Tahu.
:
: Why would I bother to look it up?
:
:
:I thought you liked doing that sort of thing.
:
:Also, it would prove that I qualify as being 'Maori'.

If it means that much to you. Link please.


Nahh, I just like to stir you - find it yourself.