A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travel Regions » USA & Canada
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 9th, 2004, 01:12 AM
jake
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.

Are they terrorists or violent criminals or something else? CBS 2's
Cheryl Fiandaca investigates.

The airport counter: This is as far as Rebecca Gordon and Janet Adams
say they are allowed to go at San Francisco International Airport. The
last time they checked in for a flight to Boston to visit Gordon's
80-year-old father, an airline employee called the police.

"She came back and said you turned up on the FBI no-fly list. We have
called the San Francisco police. We were shocked, really shocked,"
recalled Adams.

"We were detained. We were definitely detained. I couldn't even get a
drink of water," Gordon remembered.

So why would two women in their 50's, U.S. citizens, San Francisco
homeowners and long-time peace activists with no criminal records be
on a federal watch list with suspected terrorists?

That's just one of the questions the couple wanted answers to.

An ACLU attorney tells CBS 2 the government won't even tell them if
Gordon and Adams are on the list.

Last April, the ACLU of Northern California filed suit against the
Transportation Security Administration and the FBI on behalf of the
pair and demanded answers to basic questions, including how many
people are on the secret list, who is on the it, how do you get on it
and how can you get off it.

This what they got back: hundreds of pages of blacked out text that
give them no answers to any of their questions.

"The government has blacked out the information about what criteria
they use to place people on these lists. So we don't know how someone
gets on the list. How they can get off the list if they're on it
incorrectly, we don't know. If the government monitors the list, we
don't know if any of this makes us any safer. What we do know is
hundreds, maybe thousands, of passengers are being routinely hassled,
innocent passengers, because of these lists," ACLU attorney Jayashri
Srikantiah told CBS 2.

Civil rights activists don't dispute the governments right to keep a
watchlist, but they do have a problem with who's on it and why.

"It's very scary that our government is keeping a list. That's scary,"
Adams said.

Scary and all too real. The government has admitted it has a secret
no-fly list of people who are not allowed to fly. And also has a
secret selected list of people who are to be singled out, detained,
and questioned.

Both are stored in airline databases and are accessed at check in. The
lists allegedly contain thousands of names of passengers who are to be
stopped before boarding commercial flights.

The list isn't new. It has been in existence since about 1990 but was
expanded after the September 11th attacks.

"It's a no-fly list, it's a list of names gathered through
intelligence and law enforcement of individuals who are either known
terrorists or have links to known terrorists," TSA spokesperson Mark
Hatfied told Fiandaca.

The list is now alleged to include not only suspected terrorists and
those believed to be a threat to aviation security but civil rights
activists say it also targets people based on their political views. A
list that is thought to include members of the Green Party, a Jesuit
priest who is a peace activist and two civil rights attorneys.

In Gordon and Adams' case, the ACLU believes the couple may have been
targeted for their work on War Times, a free bilingual newspaper that
has been critical of the war and the Bush administration's policies on
terrorism.

It's very scary that two people who pose no danger, who are publishing
something, which last time I looked we were allowed to do, are being
detained at the airport and having the police called and they won't
tell us why," Adams said.

And as of today, Gordon and Adams still don't have any answers from
the government but have a court hearing set for April 9th. This
controversy isn't likely to go away anytime soon, since the government
is planning on implementing a color code system this summer to track
passengers and that list too is expected to be secret.

..........

http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/loc...036144559.html

  #2  
Old February 9th, 2004, 01:30 AM
Anon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.


My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave


  #3  
Old February 9th, 2004, 01:55 AM
Casey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

In Gordon and Adams' case, the ACLU believes the couple may have
been targeted for their work on War Times, a free bilingual newspaper
that has been critical of the war and the Bush administration's policies
on terrorism.


Of course this is the reason. The Bu****es are using 9/11 as an excuse
to do anything they damn well please. For those who disagree, see
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../22521283.html
This is a story on how Ashcroft is using the Patriot Act as a excuse to
crack down on a strip club. Whether you agree or not with public
nudity, you cannot possibly tie it to terrorism.


Casey


  #4  
Old February 9th, 2004, 02:45 AM
Jim Davis Sr
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...

"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.


My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave


The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a
frequent flyer for the last 35 years.
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny
the list exists.


  #5  
Old February 9th, 2004, 03:10 AM
Anon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know
if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave


The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a
frequent flyer for the last 35 years.
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I

fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is

"Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still

deny
the list exists.


Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected
BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag were
removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving
kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly undress
and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand
thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and
that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer until
recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm upgraded
to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave


  #6  
Old February 9th, 2004, 03:27 AM
PTRAVEL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


"Jim Davis Sr" wrote in message
...

"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...

"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far
prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has
learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not
allowed on any commercial airlines.


My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know

if
you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have
access to it. -Dave


The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a
frequent flyer for the last 35 years.
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I

fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is

"Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still

deny
the list exists.


Good luck, Jim. This is outrageous. Last time I looked, there is still a
5th Amendment, which provides that you cannot be deprived of property rights
(in this case, the contractual right to board an aircraft) without due
process of law.

Please keep us posted.





  #7  
Old February 9th, 2004, 04:18 AM
Peter Neenan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


"Jim Davis Sr" wrote in message
...

"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...

"jake" wrote in message ...
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4

Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


Think of the great opportunities for expanding such a list. People who are
delinquent on their taxes, student loan payments, other obligations to the
government could be detained for a "discussion" as to why they are in
default. This could result in getting lots of additional monies owed to the
government paid on a more timely basis. All it would take would be a few
business travelers being held for "consultation" before word began to spread
that one had better pay off legitimate debts.

PN


  #8  
Old February 9th, 2004, 05:19 AM
ameijers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?


"Anon" wrote in message
s.com...
(snip)
Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected
BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag

were
removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving
kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly

undress
and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand
thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and
that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer

until
recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm

upgraded
to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave

Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways
(like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets
you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you
offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security
clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem to
get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the
pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked
for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a drivers
license checking in.)

aem sends....

  #9  
Old February 9th, 2004, 05:28 AM
Anon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways
(like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets
you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you
offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security
clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem

to
get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the
pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked
for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a

drivers
license checking in.)

aem sends....


Can't be. I was picked for the extra inspections at the ticket counter,
long before I got anywhere near the archways. -Dave


  #10  
Old February 9th, 2004, 06:10 AM
Gordon Burditt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?

I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged"
& I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage.
Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class
action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny
the list exists.


I'm sure there's no chance I'm going to be allowed to get on a
commercial airline, nor survive the attempt if I ever try. I'm
supposed to carry with me a device which in operation counts down
seconds (that is, it looks and acts like a bomb timer). Along with
it, I have a clearly dangerous device whose purpose is to induce
bleeding: a lot more dangerous than the verboten electric razors
and tiny pocket knives. (It's called a blood glucose meter, and
associated lancing device for getting a drop of blood to test.)
I am lucky I do not have to carry with me syringes and vials of
what looks like a biological weapon (but is actually insulin).

Should the issue ever come to court, I'm sure that the court will
rule that the security officer had reasonable cause to shoot me,
and if the issue is not rendered moot by the fact that I am dead,
that I was not breaking the law attempting to bring the device on
board an airplane. That won't be much comfort to my surviving
relatives.

Gordon L. Burditt
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
China Travel Discussion List Peter Neville-Hadley Asia 0 May 11th, 2004 05:40 PM
China Travel Discussion List Peter Neville-Hadley Asia 0 April 30th, 2004 10:33 PM
Lawsuit challenges USA "No-Fly" list Edward Hasbrouck Air travel 0 April 7th, 2004 03:30 AM
Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? jake Air travel 52 February 29th, 2004 05:01 PM
China Travel Discussion List Peter Neville-Hadley Asia 0 November 11th, 2003 05:57 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.