Which European cities are like this?

tim (moved to Sweden) wrote:
"emilia" wrote in message
...

tim (moved to sweden) wrote:

"emilia" wrote in message
...



I don't think taxes are lower because of the corporate taxes. They are
lower because of the countries philosophy.


I didn't actually know what the figures were,

but now I have checked:

The Swiss Gvernment spend 52% of GDP
The German Government 51%
The UK Government 46%
The US Government 18% (I guess that doesn't include state expenditure?)

tim

I meant "the country's philosophy", ie. that Switzerland thinks that they
should keep taxes low. They don't keep taxes low because of corporate tax
"windfalls".

I'm not sure what your figures mean in relation to why switzerland has
lower taxes.


It says that they don't (have lower taxes).

Did I say you did say they don't (have lower taxes)


If you think that personal taxes are low because of some philosphy,
then this philosphy is only available because the rest is made up by
taxes on something that you cannot see (and possibly doesn't affect
you). Take that something else away and this philosphy would
probably disappear.


But they wouldn't make it disappear that's the point. I think you and I
are coming at this from different mind sets. For me, I see it as "let's
do everything to keep personal taxes low because this is what we believe
is right". And from what I understand, you are saying is, "We can keep
taxes low, because we can get the money we need from somewhere else."
I'm sure it's quite subtle but I see these as two different approaches.

I don't see Swiss corporate taxes as being any way out of line from the
rest of Europe. They have pretty average corporate tax rates. That's why
I "object" (this word is stronger than I mean to say) to the use of
"windfall" in you original statement.

From what I gather, tax collected as % of GDP is about +/-35% so they
have a lot of Swiss gold hidden in the hills if they are spending 52%
GDP (the difference must be pension money stashed under the mattress?).

Anyway, the more research I do, the less I'm starting to believe that
Swiss taxes are lower. They seem to be just perfectly average....
Another Swiss Myth????

Sounds like the rate of exchange to the Swiss Franc is wrong.

Do you think? You don't think that perhaps it's really that the cost of
living in the eurozone has gone up while salaries has stayed the same?


It shoudn't decrease the buying power of the Swiss Franc in Italy, it
never did in the past.

Um. Of course it will. I don't understand your logic? If the price of
things is going up in other countries why wouldn't they be more
expensive for me as well. The Swiss franc isn't going up at the same
rate as the products being sold in the Euro zone at thier new-double-old
prices.

brett ha escrito:
They didn't but some places (especially hotels) will take your Euros,
convert them to swiss francs at no charge to you...at least it seems
like there isn't a charge. Any change is given in swiss francs.


In Geneva most places (even small cafes) accept euros, even coins.

You can also withdraw euros from a large number of ATMs.

J.

nitram wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:37:26 +0200, emilia
wrote:


Sounds like the rate of exchange to the Swiss Franc is wrong.

Do you think? You don't think that perhaps it's really that the cost of
living in the eurozone has gone up while salaries has stayed the same?


It shoudn't decrease the buying power of the Swiss Franc in Italy, it
never did in the past.

Um. Of course it will. I don't understand your logic? If the price of
things is going up in other countries why wouldn't they be more
expensive for me as well. The Swiss franc isn't going up at the same
rate as the products being sold in the Euro zone at thier new-double-old
prices.


and because of this of course I was wrong. In the old days when
Italian prices went up the exchange value of the Lira plummetted/fell
accordingly. Nowadays the other countries in the Euro hold the rate of
exchange up.

Oh,
I was hoping to give you examples!

nitram wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 10:59:11 +0200, emilia
wrote:


nitram wrote:

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 01:37:26 +0200, emilia
wrote:



Sounds like the rate of exchange to the Swiss Franc is wrong.

Do you think? You don't think that perhaps it's really that the cost of
living in the eurozone has gone up while salaries has stayed the same?


It shoudn't decrease the buying power of the Swiss Franc in Italy, it
never did in the past.

Um. Of course it will. I don't understand your logic? If the price of
things is going up in other countries why wouldn't they be more
expensive for me as well. The Swiss franc isn't going up at the same
rate as the products being sold in the Euro zone at thier new-double-old
prices.


and because of this of course I was wrong. In the old days when
Italian prices went up the exchange value of the Lira plummetted/fell
accordingly. Nowadays the other countries in the Euro hold the rate of
exchange up.

Oh,
I was hoping to give you examples!



Go ahead if you have spent the night preparing view graphs and a full
presentation. :-)

Well, I thought about it. But in the end I went to bed instead....
Irresponsible of me, I know!

emilia wrote:
B
Swiss seem to have higher purchasing power even if they have less
average salary then some countries. Denmark I think has higher average
but they pay much more taxes.


Especially on cars.


Anyway, Switzerland is not as expensive to live in as some will have you
think. Especially since the conversion to the Euro.


When did Switzerland convert to the Euro?


It didn't. Do I really have to explain this?
Since the conversion to the Euro, other countries have become quite
expensive, thus making the difference in cost of living between
Switzerland & other countries (such as Italy) not as big as it once was.

I knew this and almost made the same mistake. In Germany they call the Euro
the Teuero (teuer being the word for expensive).

Julie

--
Julie
**********
Check out the blog of my 9 week Germany adventure at www.blurty.com/users/jholm
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm

I have been to Copenhagen and Stockholm, and I agree that the people are
courteous and the cities are tidy and "sensible". I don't know about the
rest of you, but a one day visit was plenty for me. Both cities were
almost Disney-like in their sterility and clockwork precision. But they
are good choices for travelers who prefer that sort of thing.

/rist wrote:
emilia wrote:



From what I gather, tax collected as % of GDP is about +/-35% so they
have a lot of Swiss gold hidden in the hills if they are spending 52%
GDP (the difference must be pension money stashed under the mattress?).


35% of GDP is quite low by European standards...

It is? It looks to me to be quite average.

Anyway, the more research I do, the less I'm starting to believe that
Swiss taxes are lower. They seem to be just perfectly average....


Taxes are lower in Switzerland. VAT is 7.6%, income tax rates are lower. I
am in a good position to compare, having lived in several European
countries before moving to Switzerland.

I have also lived in several European countries & interestingly, I also
lived in Belgium before moving to Switzerland.

One reason is that the Swiss official sector is quite efficient. I've had a
short stint at a Belgian ministry, and a longer one at a Swiss. I can
confirm that the Swiss get a lot more for their taxes.

Perhaps that is true. But, Belgium is notoriously inefficient.

"/rist" wrote in message ...
tim (moved to sweden) wrote:


The Swiss Gvernment spend 52% of GDP
The German Government 51%
The UK Government 46%
The US Government 18% (I guess that doesn't include state expenditure?)

Where did you find these figures?

I had to calculate them from the info in:

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/

I do have some figures from elsewhere for other European countries
but they didn't include CH.

tim

"/rist" wrote in message ...
emilia wrote:


From what I gather, tax collected as % of GDP is about +/-35% so they
have a lot of Swiss gold hidden in the hills if they are spending 52%
GDP (the difference must be pension money stashed under the mattress?).

35% of GDP is quite low by European standards...

Anyway, the more research I do, the less I'm starting to believe that
Swiss taxes are lower. They seem to be just perfectly average....

Taxes are lower in Switzerland. VAT is 7.6%, income tax rates are lower. I
am in a good position to compare, having lived in several European
countries before moving to Switzerland.

As I have obviously failed to explain properly, the taxation
base of a country consist of all the taxes that that country
collects, including the ones levied on companies.

You are (probably) not in a good position to compare
these as you do not run a company. Simply basing a
statement about a country's level of taxation on personal
taxes alone, is wrong.

tim