Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation

"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

--
Kwyj.

Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.


No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.

Sylvia.

Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that
would explain why those did not make the list.

"Arnold Sten" wrote in message
. ..
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in message ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given
the drastic changes that resulted.

Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that would
explain why those did not make the list.

Ahh, but the title of the article is "Ten Plane *Crashes* That Changed
Aviation", not "Ten Plane *Accidents* That Changed Aviation".
No reason for them to be excluded, given the massive changes to aviation
that resulted worldwide.

--
Kwyj.

On Oct 31, 11:31 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.

I'd argue that there have been significant increases in safety
since those attacks. I'll go so far as to predict that there will
be no more succesful airliner hijackings in the rest of my lifetime.

But the reason has absolutely nothing to do with the government's
many actions. They could stop screening passengers entirely,
and hijackings still wouldn't be feasible.

The reason has everything to do with the change in public
consciousness. If you did a survey on Sept 10, 2001, asking
people what is the safest course of action if they're a passenger
on an airliner when someone stands up and announces that
the plane is being hijacked, most people would've said to
stay quiet, lay low, cooperate, and don't attract attention.
Up until then, hijacked passengers and flight crew members
could expect to survive the ordeal if they followed those rules.

Since that time, the correct course of action has
changed to, "If you want to live, do whatever it takes
to disable or kill the hijackers, at all costs. Do not
cooperate at all under any circumstances."

THAT is what has put an end to airliner hijacking.

wrote:
On Oct 31, 11:31 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
Kwyjibo wrote:
"Ned" wrote in ...
Ten Plane Crashes That Changed Aviation
Popular Mechanics | By David Noland | October 13, 2007
snip
Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.
No, because the changes haven't resulted in any increase in safety.

I'd argue that there have been significant increases in safety
since those attacks. I'll go so far as to predict that there will
be no more succesful airliner hijackings in the rest of my lifetime.

But the reason has absolutely nothing to do with the government's
many actions. They could stop screening passengers entirely,
and hijackings still wouldn't be feasible.

The reason has everything to do with the change in public
consciousness. If you did a survey on Sept 10, 2001, asking
people what is the safest course of action if they're a passenger
on an airliner when someone stands up and announces that
the plane is being hijacked, most people would've said to
stay quiet, lay low, cooperate, and don't attract attention.
Up until then, hijacked passengers and flight crew members
could expect to survive the ordeal if they followed those rules.

Since that time, the correct course of action has
changed to, "If you want to live, do whatever it takes
to disable or kill the hijackers, at all costs. Do not
cooperate at all under any circumstances."

THAT is what has put an end to airliner hijacking.


Well, yes, that's what I had in mind. The September 11th style
hijackings were already impossible on the 12th. The crashes that changed
aviation article was about changes to practice and construction that
resulted from the investigation, not about changes to passenger behaviour.

It's a shame the Ethopian Airlines hijacking didn't occur after 9/11.
The majority of the passengers died in the ensuing ditching, but the
hijackers didn't really have a bomb.

Sylvia.

Arnold Sten wrote:
Those four plane crashes were, in my opinion, not accidents, but
deliberate and pre-meditated acts of suicide and murder. To me, that
would explain why those did not make the list.

Perhaps that Cypriot 737 that crashed in Greece should be considered an
important one. Not because of failure of pressurisation system, but
because the politicians, after 9-11, mandated a hurried implementation
of the locked cockpit door system which proved fatal in the Cypriot 737
crash since the remaining conscious crewmember was prevented from
entering the cockpit to save the situation until the door unlocked when
fuel ran out, but by then, it was too late.


There is also the issue of aircraft wiring. It wasn't a single
accident/crash that changed aviation, but rather realisation after a
number of incidents that aircraft wiring was a big problem. And in the
case of the UA 747 near Hawaii, the conclusion was changed years later
from human error to faulty aircraft wiring. TWA800 and SR111 were the
more obvious accidents.


The early A320 problems also showed that FAA and other certification
agencies had antiquated testing procedures that did not ensure the
software on an aircraft was reliable. Most of the A320 problems did not
result in a crash, but still showed that the aircraft was put into
service with less than acceptable software quality which should have
been spotted before the aircraft entered commercial service. Aircraft
certification tests were revised and subsequent aircraft introductions
were far more reliable.


I'd have to say though that Comet was probably the biggest one since it
made engineers realise that pressurisation cycles affect aircraft
structure and that has been a major impact on all subsequent aircarft.

"Sylvia Else" wrote

Well, yes, that's what I had in mind. The September 11th style hijackings
were already impossible on the 12th. The crashes that changed aviation
article was about changes to practice and construction that resulted from
the investigation, not about changes to passenger behaviour.

What difference does it make, how the lack of future hijackings came about?
If it is increased security, stronger cockpit doors, or more vigilant
passengers, the change produces the same result. I think the 9-11 change
should be at the very top of the list. No credit should go to the airlines,
though. All the credit is due the passengers.
--
Jim in NC

"Nobody" wrote

I'd have to say though that Comet was probably the biggest one since it
made engineers realise that pressurisation cycles affect aircraft
structure and that has been a major impact on all subsequent aircarft.

Hard to argue that, but I think it is important because of the style of
reconstructive investigation that grew from figuring out the crashes. It is
the standard that all modern investigations grew from.
--
Jim in NC

Hmmm. No mention of September 11, 2001.
I would have thought those plane crashes would have made the list, given the
drastic changes that resulted.

No, because those crashes were not unintentional. There was no failure
of technology or pilot error involved.

David Johnson