If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#331
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers (was: Rules for border crossings into the United States)
In article ,
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote: On 2007-08-03, Merritt Mullen wrote: I have been asked for my SSN many times, but I have never been asked to show my SS card. I don't know about newer cards, but mine is clearly marked "This card is not to be used for identification". You've never tried to get a driver's license in Illinois, I take it. it certainly caught me off guard on that first visit to the Secretary of State. As I understand it, by federal law, they are not supposed to do that. Merritt |
#332
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers (was: Rules for border crossings into the United States)
"Merritt Mullen" wrote in message
... In article , Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote: On 2007-08-03, Merritt Mullen wrote: I have been asked for my SSN many times, but I have never been asked to show my SS card. I don't know about newer cards, but mine is clearly marked "This card is not to be used for identification". You've never tried to get a driver's license in Illinois, I take it. it certainly caught me off guard on that first visit to the Secretary of State. As I understand it, by federal law, they are not supposed to do that. I know that federal agencies are not allowed to use SSNs as account numbers, but I don't recall if that rule applies to state agencies as well. They're all allowed to ask for your number for tax and other specific purposes. For instance, Texas requires a valid SSN to get a DL, due to a state law that requires it to reduce the number of people getting multiple licenses, but your SSN is not your DLN. S -- Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do." K5SSS --Isaac Asimov -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#333
|
|||
|
|||
Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
In article ews.net,
"Adam H. Kerman" wrote: The post office is NOT a public corporation or any kind of corporation. It's a government agency. Till the Nixon administration, it was a cabinet-level executive department. It is a government agency in the common meaning of the word, but it is legally defined as "an independent establishment of the executive branch." The law (39 U.S.C, sec. 201) says: "There is established, as an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States, the United States Postal Service." I know, picky, picky. As you say it not any kind of corporation, such as Amtrak is, and its employees are government employees paid by the Treasury Department. Amtrak employees are not government employees and they are paid by the corporation, not by the Treasury. Merritt |
#334
|
|||
|
|||
Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:15:25 GMT, Merritt Mullen
wrote: In article ews.net, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: The post office is NOT a public corporation or any kind of corporation. It's a government agency. Till the Nixon administration, it was a cabinet-level executive department. It is a government agency in the common meaning of the word, but it is legally defined as "an independent establishment of the executive branch." The law (39 U.S.C, sec. 201) says: "There is established, as an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States, the United States Postal Service." I know, picky, picky. More than "picky, picky". As I said, "agency" has a specific legal meaning that does not apply to independent units such as the USPS or the Federal Reserve. As you say it not any kind of corporation, such as Amtrak is, and its employees are government employees paid by the Treasury Department. Amtrak employees are not government employees and they are paid by the corporation, not by the Treasury. Do the proceeds from postage sales go into Treasury, and are they earmarked somehow for wages? -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#335
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:00:55 GMT, Merritt Mullen
wrote: In article ews.net, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote: This is an entirely unconvincing counter-argument. I gave an example of its possible use as a form of identification. It's use, for immigration law purposes, is to identify an individual that meets the criterion of having a Social Security Number from the series given to citizens and permanent residents. In what why does a SS card identify anyone. All it has on it is a name and a number. You need supplemental evidence before identification is possible. I have never, in my entire life, been asked for my SS card. Great. If your employer receives a complaint about records mismatch, he would ask to see something to verify a match between Social Security Number and name. He can easily do that without seeing a card. The SSA can match a name to a number. I have worked for the federal government all my life, either in the military or as a civilian, and I can tell you the federal government has never asked to see my card. What purpose would it serve? I could make one myself if I needed to. And, by the way, when you apply for SS benefits, as I have, the SSA doesn't ask to see your card either (they do want to see your birth certificate). The sole purpose of the card is to inform the holder of his account number. And, under changing requirements of identification for employment, for giving evidence that one is part of the SS system and has an SS number. For about the last fifteen years I have had to present by SS card to propective empoyers. Needless to say, they are easily fakeable, but the potential empoyers still photocopy my SS card and birth certificate for their records. I believe it gets them off the hook on certain federal requirements. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#336
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers (was: Rules for border crossings into the United States)
On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:03:20 GMT, Merritt Mullen
wrote: In article , Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote: On 2007-08-03, Merritt Mullen wrote: I have been asked for my SSN many times, but I have never been asked to show my SS card. I don't know about newer cards, but mine is clearly marked "This card is not to be used for identification". You've never tried to get a driver's license in Illinois, I take it. it certainly caught me off guard on that first visit to the Secretary of State. As I understand it, by federal law, they are not supposed to do that. For a while some states required it for drivers licenses. But they seem to have backed off. My private medical insurance number used to be my SSN, but they changed their system an now assign me a near-incomprehensible number. Now if we could just convince the SSA to use a code number on Medicare cards. All that effort to cleanse my wallet of my SSN, and there sits my Medicare card with my SSN in large bold numerals. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#337
|
|||
|
|||
Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak
"Adam H. Kerman" wrote in message
reenews.net... Stephen Sprunk wrote: so they're not even "public" corporations like the USPS or NPRC. The post office is NOT a public corporation or any kind of corporation. It's a government agency. Till the Nixon administration, it was a cabinet-level executive department. My mistake. Strike USPS from my message; it doesn't affect the accuracy of the rest. S -- Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do." K5SSS --Isaac Asimov -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#338
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers
"Hatunen" wrote in message
... For about the last fifteen years I have had to present by SS card to propective empoyers. No, you haven't, unless you have no other way to prove you're elligible to work in the US. Technically, you are not required to provide your SSN to an employer at all; federal courts have ruled that's unlawful discrimination if they try to force you to. US citizens are only required to provide (or even have) an SSN if they want their employment to count towards SS benefits when they retire. This "voluntary" nature is how Congress got it past SCOTUS, since it'd otherwise be unconstitutional (or at least would have been considered so when the program was created), and that has never been changed. Needless to say, they are easily fakeable, but the potential empoyers still photocopy my SS card and birth certificate for their records. I believe it gets them off the hook on certain federal requirements. They're required to ask, but you're not required to provide it and there's no penalty to either you or the employer if it's not on the forms. Few employers, however, are actually versed on those details since it's very obscure case law. S -- Stephen Sprunk "Those people who think they know everything CCIE #3723 are a great annoyance to those of us who do." K5SSS --Isaac Asimov -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#339
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers
On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 17:45:04 -0500, "Stephen Sprunk"
wrote: "Hatunen" wrote in message .. . For about the last fifteen years I have had to present by SS card to propective empoyers. No, you haven't, unless you have no other way to prove you're elligible to work in the US. I'm telling you what I had to do. Don't tell me I didn't. Technically, you are not required to provide your SSN to an employer at all; federal courts have ruled that's unlawful discrimination if they try to force you to. US citizens are only required to provide (or even have) an SSN if they want their employment to count towards SS benefits when they retire. This "voluntary" nature is how Congress got it past SCOTUS, since it'd otherwise be unconstitutional (or at least would have been considered so when the program was created), and that has never been changed. Needless to say, they are easily fakeable, but the potential empoyers still photocopy my SS card and birth certificate for their records. I believe it gets them off the hook on certain federal requirements. They're required to ask, but you're not required to provide it and there's no penalty to either you or the employer if it's not on the forms. Few employers, however, are actually versed on those details since it's very obscure case law. I have no idea why I should take what you say at face value. -- ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) ************* * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow * * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps * |
#340
|
|||
|
|||
Requirements to have Social Security Numbers
In article ,
Hatunen wrote: And, under changing requirements of identification for employment, for giving evidence that one is part of the SS system and has an SS number. Why not just tell them your number, let them punch it into the computer and let the SSA come back with the name of the holder of that number (or vice versa, for that matter). Why trust a battered piece of paper that has been in someone's wallet for years? For about the last fifteen years I have had to present by SS card to propective empoyers. You seem to be fairly unusual in that regard given the responses I have seen so far on this group. As I said the federal government does not ask that of their prospective employees. But on the other hand, the federal government and military employees did not participate in the Social Security System until about 1957, and then just for the medicare provisions. In fact, many jobs used to not be covered by SS, so having a SS account was not a requirement for employment. Merritt |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
How bad is Amtrak? | Odysseus | Cruises | 22 | December 18th, 2006 02:33 AM |
OT - Amtrak | Duh_OZ | Air travel | 1 | November 29th, 2006 04:10 PM |
Kenya to Request Patrols of Somalian Waters | Mark O. Polo | Cruises | 4 | November 15th, 2005 04:21 AM |
Amtrak NYC to DC - $$$$ | [email protected] | USA & Canada | 23 | May 13th, 2004 09:25 PM |
Amtrak | Mike Steen | Cruises | 2 | April 6th, 2004 02:15 AM |