France is getting hotter

Reid wrote:

Following up to Miguel Cruz

Doubtful. The cockroaches will be flaming each other here long after we've
earned our extinction through insufficient air conditioning and
bleeding-heart gypsy-coddling.

I suggest, as a precaution, no one teaches cockroaches to use
PCs.

Too late. Or have you not been reading this group?

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

On 23/12/03 10:47, in article ,
"Deep Freud Moors" wrote:

I have heard this before somewhere. Do they tax you at regular US
taxation rates? Wouldn't this mean you actually pay a hell of a lot of
tax, and keep very little?

No to the latter.

In our particular case it is split. I am retired now but my French
Civil Service pension is not taxed by the Americans. We have investment
income from the US which is taxed by the Americans but goes into the
effective tax rate calculation on a French return. It is not taxed
directly but raises your tax on French income. My US social security
is theoretically not taxed in France but goes into the effective
rate estimate.

The IRS would want to tax any French capital gains, even
on the sale of a French personal residence (above a certain value).
So there is no harmony on what category of income is taxed.
For instance, a tax free postal account here, the Livret A, yields
interest which is not taxed on France but is in the USA.

The net result is a very complicated US return that only an
accountant can do. Ours does both our US and French return
(the latter I could do myself) and that runs I think (I forget)
maybe $500 a year for him to do this.

The net result is that our French taxes are not too high and our
US taxes much higher, perhaps 3 or 4 times the French. Yet
we have not live In the US since the mid 1970s. The French
also gives us nearly free medical care via their social security
health care system. After retirement one is not charged for it,
one pays heavily during one`s working years. Basically it is
great for the retired.

We have a mutual, at about $50/month to cover the short fall.
Our drug costs are covered at 95%, our doctor's
visit (20 euros) is completely covered but specialists cost
more than covered, so we pay that our of our pocket. We
have US Medicare coverage IF we were in the US but that does
not have foreign portability. The French coverage is much better
and that at least is one reason for staying here. The main
reason is we like France and adore Paris. The US is a nice
country to visit, but we've "been there, done that".

Earl

Reid writes:

I certainly didn't, so you have to renounce citizenship to stop
paying?

You have to renounce citizenship to avoid being taxable. However, the
IRS will not allow you to renounce your citizenship unless you've paid
all your taxes.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Earl Evleth writes:

Not so easy. By American law, also written into consular accords,
if a US citizen renounces US citizenship for tax reasons, he can still
be taxed by the US for up to 10 years afterwards.

Of course, this is virtually impossible to enforce.

Obviously those who know the latter will remove all assets from
US jurisdiction before doing so. But they can`t ever return to
the US again.

Given the way the US treats them, perhaps they wouldn't want to.

The trick in this case was that he stated, in renouncing
US citizenship, another reason, not taxes.

Are there a lot of citizens renouncing citizenship who give tax
avoidance as their official reason?

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Following up to Padraig Breathnach

IMHO its just that, an old story.
I put it to you that you *borrow* for your deficit, not print
money?

It has substantially the same effect.

Yes, I think printing the money is probably worse, especially
when its realised you are doing it. Not that I think anyone does.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
and same for Spain at "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Padraig Breathnach

I suggest, as a precaution, no one teaches cockroaches to use
PCs.

Too late. Or have you not been reading this group?

what a horrible image, I wont speculate on which posters might be
suspects at this time of good will to all men.....and
cockroaches.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walking-food-photos, Wasdale, Thames, London etc "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
and same for Spain at "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" -- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:44:23 +0000, Reid
wrote:

Following up to Deep Freud Moors

It sort of is. IIRC, the Greenback is a promise of US dollars that
countries can theoretically claim one day, is it not? It is the
Greenbacks that are being constantly printed.

If the US dollar is like Sterling, it will no longer be on the
gold standard, in other words you cannot cash it in. The thing
about "priniting money" is that I think its something only done
by countries near collapse.

This is also used as a technique for paying their workers less - by
devaluing the currency.

Obviously is not going to help in attracting foreign investment
though...
---
DFM

On 23/12/03 12:58, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

Are there a lot of citizens renouncing citizenship who give tax
avoidance as their official reason?


There are not many who renounce for any reason.

Some just don`t say anything.

Earl

Howard N. Lute wrote:

Oh my gosh...of course we do it, our budget isn't "balanced, we don't
wait until receipts equal payments...we print money...Biullions and
billions. Old old story.

From what I recall of Economics 101 (not much), I think "printing
money" is a metaphor. Currency in circulation is only a small part of
the money supply. Most money is actually held in the form of entries on
the "books" of various banks (computerized now, of course) and money is
created by the banks as part of a process of buying and selling treasury
notes issued by the Federal Reserve.
Googling for "money creation" should produce some eye-opening
revelations about the vaporous nature of the whole enterprise.

-- Ron

On 23/12/03 12:56 pm, in article ,
"Mxsmanic" wrote:

Reid writes:

I certainly didn't, so you have to renounce citizenship to stop
paying?

You have to renounce citizenship to avoid being taxable. However, the
IRS will not allow you to renounce your citizenship unless you've paid
all your taxes.

You don't need to be a citizen to pay US taxes. Trust me!!

J;