A British Trip Report to California/Utah/Arizona Part 2 (Long)

Part 2 of a trip made 28th May -- 11th June 2004

Who: Me, the wife and our 2 sons aged 11 and 8.

Day 8: Friday 4th June. Death Valley. Left Furnace Creek and drove up
to Zabriskie Pt for a quick photo and then went back down to the
Devil's Golf Course. Found the whole place to be very strange, but
totally fascinating. The temperature was already over 100F so we
headed out of the valley and drove to Las Vegas. We drove along the
strip past most of hotels, but got rapidly bored and then we got stuck
in a traffic jam so we turned off and made our way to the freeway and
headed north into Utah. We wondered about staying here originally but
we were glad we hadn't. We found the whole place slightly depressing
-- tacky and soulless.

Made it to Springdale, just outside Zion NP, stayed at the Best
Western Hotel unpacked and had a lovely swim in their pool followed by
an excellent meal that night in their Switchback Restaurant.

Day 9: Made the mistake of buying breakfast in the restaurant! Had a
"short stack" of pancakes but could only eat 1 of the 3 pancakes. They
were absolutely enormous!! Went to the visitor centre at Zion and got
onto the shuttle bus. We really liked these free buses in all of the
national parks, many of the drivers were entertainers and tour guides
rolled into one and provided a great commentary for us tourists. Had a
short walk up to the Weeping rock and then made out way back to the
visitor centre. We were on a tight schedule today so no long walks.

We were sat on the bus going back to the visitor centre when a woman
on the bus just turned around and asked us where we had got our sun
hats from? Surprised to just be asked like that we nevertheless
replied "England", "Oh" she said and then carried on talking to her
friends! We found the very direct nature of many Americans strange for
us poor shy retiring Brits!

On to Bryce Canyon, the drive up through Zion was stunning and
required many stops for photos. Got to Bryce mid afternoon, stopped at
Ruby's and got the digital camera memory cards written to CD -- $13 --
a bit steep but then they have a captive market. Then on into the
park, drove to the end and then back to the lodge, checked in, and
then went for an excellent early evening walk on the Navajo Loop. The
colours were superb as the sun set.

Many thanks to everyone here for suggesting Zion and Bryce to me in
Feburary as I'd never heard of them until then. Another high point of
the trip.

Went to sleep tired having started the day with a walk in one national
park followed by an evening walk in another.

Day 10: Woke up early and checked out. Wondered why the US flag
outside the lodge was at half mast. Drove down to Page. Stopped at the
Glen Canyon Dam visitor centre, not to see the dam but to use their
toilets! However, security was ridiculus, metal detectors and
searches, they wouldn't even let my wife in with her handbag -- told
her to leave it in the car, so we left with the kids hanging on until
we could find a better place to stop!!

As someone who has lived through countless IRA bombing campaigns in
Britain (partly funded by US "donations" I should add) it was
interesting to see how security was handled. Some aspects were
discrete and reassuring, but other things were bordering on paranoia
and this was a clear case in our eyes.

Stopped for lunch at Upper Antelope Canyon. As a keen photographer I
really wanted to go here but didn't think we'd have the time, the
others in the family didn't know much about it, but we managed to get
there about 12:15pm. We just missed the jeep ride out to the canyon so
we sat and ate our lunch. We got out to the canyon about 1pm, just in
time to catch the last half an hour or so of the light filtering down
into the canyon. Absolutely fantastic!! I can not recommend this place
higher. If you're in the area you must go!! It made a lasting
impression on all four of us and ranked almost as high as Yosemite as
the 2 totally unforgettable experiences of the holiday. Just the trip
out to the canyon on the back of the jeep was worthy of Disney ride!

On to the Grand Canyon and the Yavapai Lodge. Was slightly
disappointed by the Canyon -- after all the amazing sights we'd seen
on the trip it just seemed like a large hole in the ground! Still,
sunset was stunning and increased our opinion of the place.

Day 11: Hiked down the Bright Angel Trail, our youngest was really
tired so we didn't go down too far, nearly as far as the first rest
point. It was quite hot and on the way back we came across a woman who
was obviously struggling. She had drunk her water so we gave her a
litre and talked to her a while. She was clearly dehydrated. Turned
out her husband had got fed up with her slowing him down so he had
gone on ahead! Only one word for him -- b*stard.

She wanted us to go on but we kept an eye on her from a few hundred
metres ahead for the remaining walk back and another party gave her
another litre of water. We met her again at the top and she was
feeling much better, she thanked us and we recommended that she get a
good divorce lawyer!

Found out why flags were at half mast -- Reagan had died. Sad to see a
person die but as someone who had marched against Thatcher & Reagan in
the 1980s I wasn't that sad!

Day 12: Drove to Anaheim. Only took just over 7 hours, including a
lunchstop. Did a steady 75-80mph all the way. It's nice to see that
you guys are driving at near European speeds - In Europe I would have
gone at 85-95mph on roads like those.

Got to Anaheim, found the Howard Johnson hotel easily on S Harbor
Blvd. Nice hotel, had a room at the back overlooking the garden pool,
very quiet. Had an excellent meal at the restaurant opposite and then
walked to downtown Disney to check out where to go the next day.

Day 13: The kids have magically lost their tiredness! Son number 1 had
set the alarm clock for 7, had jumped out of bed as soon as it went
off and was leaping on ours trying to get us up!! Had our best
breakfast of the whole holiday at the French coffee house in downtown
Disney, a proper French quossaint and coffee. Then on to the main
park. 12 hours later we emerged smiling but exhausted! We'd been to
Disneyland Paris 2 years ago so it was interesting to compare. We
loved Splash Mountain and Indy at Anaheim, but the rest of the rides
were definitely better at Paris, especially Thunder Mloountain and
Star Tours. Despite that we still went on Thunder Mountain 6 times!
Queues were light, 5 - 10 minutes for most rides, except Splash and
Indy which was down most of the day.

Day 14: More of the same as yesterday except that we started in the
California Park. Went on Soarin' first -- fantastic, best ride we'd
ever been on. Then we walked on to Grizzly Mtn River run, The wife and
son number 1 got soaked so we went straight back on again (it was a
walk on), the wife and son number 1 got even more soaked! Me and son
number 2 stayed relatively dry! Then I made a BIG mistake I agreed to
go on the Tower of Terror with son number 1! Trully awful, it really
got to me! Son number 1 loved it! Son number 2 decided he wanted a go,
no way am I going on that thing again I said, the wife looked
petrified -- we managed to talk him out of it !! We'd done everything
by 4pm so back to the main park for more Indy and Thunder Mountain.

Biggest discussion point in the queues was the price of gas! When we
politely informed everyone that gas was still less than half the price
in the US compared with the UK and they didn't know what expensive
was, they were a bit surprised! Some were a bit put out when I
suggested that they drive smaller cars, why on earth do you need a
huge four wheel drive with a 4 litre plus engine in LA? The average
family car in Europe has a 1.4, 1.6 or maybe a 1.8 litre engine. Many
people have small cars with a 1.0 to 1.2 litre engine which does 45 -
50 miles to the gallon and the car will still do 90 on the freeway!

I was surprised that few people mentioned Iraq, but it always amazes
me (and frightens me) how little the average American knows about the
outside world!

Day 15: Checked out, drove over to Beverly Hills/Hollywood to have a
quick look around and then onto the airport. Why are there no signs to
LAX on the freeway? We nearly missed the small sign for Manchester
Ave. Wierd! We checked in, the TSG scanned our bags and asked me to
open one of them. I think they wondered what my camera tripod was! We
were sat down by the departure gate about half an hour before boarding
when they cordoned off our area, and made us all go out and queue up
again. They then checked our passports and all non white UK and US
passengers had their hand luggage searched again! I really think, if
they were going to do that then they ought to have searched us as
well. Apart from that the security wasn't too overpowering and
everyone was very courteous to us. I was quite impressed. There was an
Air NZ flight leaving for Heathrow 30 mins before us a couple of gates
away from us but they weren't searched again before boarding.

Day 16: Arrived home completely knackered and ready for another
holiday. The plane had to wait on the taxiway for 40mins before a gate
became free. Typical! Welcome back to Britain and it's traffic jams!!

On the whole an excellent holiday and one we won't forget!

Cheers and many thanks

Mike

Thanks for the report, Mike. It sounded great. [R]

"Mike" Mike@com wrote ...
Part 2 of a trip made 28th May -- 11th June 2004
snip

In article , Mike Mike@com wrote:

I was surprised that few people mentioned Iraq, but it always amazes
me (and frightens me) how little the average American knows about the
outside world!

They were probably just shy about revealing their lack of knowledge to
someone who was obviously so much better informed.

On the whole an excellent holiday and one we won't forget!

Glad you had a fine time. Thanks for posting the report.

--
---
"Wake Up, Everybody."--McFadden/Whitehead/Carstarphen
RIP John Whitehead 1948-2004

eric h wrote:
In article , Mike Mike@com wrote:

I was surprised that few people mentioned Iraq, but it always amazes
me (and frightens me) how little the average American knows about the
outside world!

They were probably just shy about revealing their lack of knowledge to
someone who was obviously so much better informed.


It's a cultural device to keep a reasonably civilized atmosphere in a public
place. While standing in line or milling in crowded places, folks tend to
eschew controversial subjects or if they're broached, keep comments short and
change the subject if there's an indication of disagreement. Discussions about
Iraq abound between acquaintances, in all kinds of places. Since the country's
pretty much evenly-divided on the subject it's the controversial subject par
excellence.

Another difference (between Americans and others) I've noticed is that while
Americans are generally much more socially casual and open with their personal
information, and don't mind asking of even complete strangers what might in
other cultures be considered personal or even private questions, once a
participant issues a cue signifying they don't wish to continue along that
vein, either the subject's instantly changed, or the conversation ends. No
big.

Haven't found this to the same degree anywhere else. By and large the more you
get into it, the harder is is to get out of. Here, you're in and out in a
flash if you wish. No embarassment, nothing messy.

Why? Since the default here is to allow people their distance, personal space
and individuality, I think people generally feel they have the latitude to
delve, get close and ask questions safely because returning to default status
is the easiest, simplest, quickest thing in the world for all parties
concerned.

While such devices and cues exist in all cultures to varying degrees, it seems
to me that the ones here are less numerous, are known by everyone, work easily
across all class levels, and function for the community as a whole rather than
for just one or two levels or classes at a time. These are not one-upmanship
exercises or sneers. They're uncomplicated, they work, and they allow everyone
to relax; take their focus away from Form.

It's one of the reasons I like to live here. Americans on the whole are still
civilized. Nex

Mike Mike@com wrote:
Biggest discussion point in the queues was the price of gas! When we
politely informed everyone that gas was still less than half the price
in the US compared with the UK and they didn't know what expensive
was, they were a bit surprised! Some were a bit put out when I
suggested that they drive smaller cars, why on earth do you need a
huge four wheel drive with a 4 litre plus engine in LA? The average
family car in Europe has a 1.4, 1.6 or maybe a 1.8 litre engine. Many
people have small cars with a 1.0 to 1.2 litre engine which does 45 -
50 miles to the gallon and the car will still do 90 on the freeway!


Would you have felt better if someone reminded you that the high cost
of petrol in the UK was because of taxes?

I was surprised that few people mentioned Iraq, but it always amazes
me (and frightens me) how little the average American knows about the
outside world!


Do you know any "average American" people. If so, how do you determine
this?


Sounds like you had a nice trip. Too bad you made the mistake of many
travelers in judging a large, diverse population in a small amount of
time.

"Alan Pollock" wrote in message
...
eric h wrote:
In article , Mike Mike@com
wrote:

I was surprised that few people mentioned Iraq, but it always amazes
me (and frightens me) how little the average American knows about the
outside world!

They were probably just shy about revealing their lack of knowledge to
someone who was obviously so much better informed.

I agree with what Alan has said. We spent 11 weeks in the US, and in that
time had many conversations with Americans about the Iraq situation and
other serious political matters - e.g. health care, etc. Not in a line at a
theme park, but in bars, over drinks with people we met at our hotels, in
hostels etc. FWIW, I can't recall ever discussing such things with people
waiting in line at home in Australia either. Friends and family back home
would always ask me 'what do people think about the war?' I would reply that
while you can't have an in-depth political conversation with everyone you
meet casually, there is clearly a wide range of views about it. I found
that there was also fairly well-balanced commentary on the war in the US
papers, including columnists and letter writers. Any bookstore will carry
dozens of books attacking the Bush Administration for all manner of
perceived faults. I think many foreigners assume that the American people
are universally gung-ho and pro-Bush on this issue, but that is not the case
at all.

We talked to thoughtful people who were against the war, others who were for
it or those who were undecided but very concerned as to how it was going.
This included some college kids from Arkansas who we met in Memphis. Maybe
the fact that we like a drink or three has something to do with it! A taxi
driver in DC offered his view, completely unsolicited, that Bush should be
tried for war crimes. Another woman on a swamp tour in Louisiana told us
how glad she was we'd still decided to come, 'despite our dreadful
President', again totally unprompted by any comment on our part.. It is
true that, in general, the US public would be less aware of international
affairs than in many other nations. For example, Americans would often ask
us what we thought of the war. They usually know that Britain is with them,
but none had any idea that Australia was also a member of the 'Coalition of
the Willing'. When I asked whether he knew that Australia was also
involved, one college student actually asked me 'on which side'!

Great trip report Mike. I happened to be on vacation when you posted
part one, so I had to go back and read that one too.

It sure sounds like you packed a lot into a two week holiday. Is
there any chance that you'll be sharing any of your photos with us?

In article ,
Dominic Kelly wrote:

We talked to thoughtful people who were against the war, others who were for
it or those who were undecided but very concerned as to how it was going.

Mmm-hmm.

President', again totally unprompted by any comment on our part.. It is
true that, in general, the US public would be less aware of international
affairs than in many other nations.

Why would that be true, and if it were, how would you compare this sort of
awareness?

And if we're to be awarding blue ribbons for international awareness,
who'll take the prize? (We'll cut a bit of slack and assume, just for
now, that Americans know next to naught about the world around them.)

Whenever I travel, I find many people who are reasonably well informed
about lots of things--and in that sense, my observation would seem to be
comparable to yours. I also invariably find people who aren't terribly
well informed, particularly about places they haven't been to. (Coming, as
I do, from a couple of places that many people haven't been to, I get this
pretty often.)

Despite all those data points, I somehow yet feel unqualified to evaluate
the general international awareness of Canadians, Germans, Englishpersons,
or even Australians.

So I can only be impressed that in a short visit, someone could meet
enough Americans to conclude that our world knowledge is severely lacking,
relative to theirs. I know that if I were to venture such an observation
about other nationalities--say, that the English or Australians knew
precious little about international affairs--I'd get grilled pretty good
about it, so I'd make sure I had darn good info.


--
---
"Wake Up, Everybody."--McFadden/Whitehead/Carstarphen
RIP John Whitehead 1948-2004

Why would that be true, and if it were, how would you compare this sort of
awareness?

Unfortunately, I must agree that most Americans (outside certain urban
elites) know precious little about the rest of the world. As someone who has
spent a LOT of time in the US, I offer some anecdotal evidence (some tongue
in cheek):
- international coverage in US papers (with exception of the NY Times,
Washington Post or similar papers) is nonexistent. In Europe, even the
tabloids 'cover' foreign affairs.
- international coverage on TV news is nonexistent. European news spend, at
a guess, about half their time on international affairs. (In Europe, there
is also CNN International, which is quite good, but not available in the US.
When in the US, outside cities like NY or Washington, I need to refer to the
web to get news from home.)
- Have a look at quiz shows. How many questions are there on non-American
things? (I saw a person fail to answer "Which European country was reunited
in 1990?")
- Only some 6% of Americans have a passport. The US is so vast that you can
spend a lifetime vacationing there, without needing to go abroad.
- Talk to ordinary folks. Most still seem to think that Germany is still a
hard-working, disciplined, and efficient country... ;-)

"eric h" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dominic Kelly wrote:

We talked to thoughtful people who were against the war, others who were
for
it or those who were undecided but very concerned as to how it was going.

Mmm-hmm.

President', again totally unprompted by any comment on our part.. It is
true that, in general, the US public would be less aware of international
affairs than in many other nations.

Why would that be true,
Eric,

If true, it would be quite understandable. Nations like Australia know that
they are small players on the world stage,
and that most of what is important in the world happens elsewhere. On the
other hand, the European countries live
cheek-by-jowl with each other, so inevitably would have close contact with
their neighbors and be aware of what is
going on in those countries. The USA is probably unique in being the most
powerful nation, and also is
geographically isolated from the other major players. The US is also more
self-reliant than many others.
In these circumstances, it would not be the least surprising IF was less
knowledge of or interest in world
affairs than in the other countries mentioned.

and if it were, how would you compare this sort of
awareness?

I believe that there have been various surveys taken of senior high school
or college students in the major OECD nations,
looking at geographical knowledge (e.g. 'can you identify Japan {or the US}
on a map?') and knowledge of world affairs
(e.g. 'name one foreign leader?' or 'Which of these four people is
currently the Secretary-General of the UN?') . I am not going to go
searching for this material just for the sake of winning an argument, but I
recall it was found that the US students
did particularly poorly. From memory, the Brits did pretty badly also. I
don't think Australia was one of the countries involved.
I recall that these results caused some concern within the US, and there
were groups like the National Geographic Society
saying that more should be done to improve the knowledge of American youth
in this area.

And if we're to be awarding blue ribbons for international awareness,
who'll take the prize? (We'll cut a bit of slack and assume, just for
now, that Americans know next to naught about the world around them.)

Whenever I travel, I find many people who are reasonably well informed
about lots of things--and in that sense, my observation would seem to be
comparable to yours. I also invariably find people who aren't terribly
well informed, particularly about places they haven't been to. (Coming, as
I do, from a couple of places that many people haven't been to, I get this
pretty often.)

Good point. We found that in the US and in other places too. The other day
an Aussie girl was on the
Dave Letterman show. Dave asked her where she was from. She replied
'Perth'. Dave said 'Oh yes, that's over
on the west coast, on the Indian Ocean, right?' The girl replied 'I dunno -
I never took geography in school'.

I'm sure many New Zealanders could readily cite examples of Aussies being
relativley ignorant of their country and its affairs,
along the lines of my being surprised that an American was unaware that
Australia had contributed 800 troops to the
140,000 strong 'coalition of the willing'.

Despite all those data points, I somehow yet feel unqualified to evaluate
the general international awareness of Canadians, Germans, Englishpersons,
or even Australians.

So I can only be impressed that in a short visit, someone could meet
enough Americans to conclude that our world knowledge is severely lacking,
relative to theirs. I know that if I were to venture such an observation
about other nationalities--say, that the English or Australians knew
precious little about international affairs--I'd get grilled pretty good
about it, so I'd make sure I had darn good info.

I meant no offense by my comments. I am definitely a friend of America - we
loved our trip and eagerly look
forward to returning. You are right, I certainly cannot prove
scientifically or to an standard that would satisfy
a court that the average American has less awareness of world affairs than
the average citizen of x country.
That may or not be true - I am not 100% certain whether it is or not, and
accordingly should not have stated it as if
it were an undeniable fact.

However, we might as well acknowledge that this belief is a very common one
among non-Americans,
rightly or wrongly. The arguments usually put in support of this opinion
include the claim that the major network news
on TV rarely covers international stories, unless (like Iraq) America is
somehow involved, or in the case of spectacular
disasters. I have read articles in American publications (the Atlantic
Monthly, was one, I think) reporting that the percentage
of news coverage devoted to foreign stories has significantly decreased in
the past few decades. The suggestion
being made was that this is not a good thing, given that America is a
superpower with global interests and responsibilities,
whose citizens ought to be in a position to make informed decisions on
matters of foreign policy.

Anyway, sorry if I upset anyone. Dom
--
---
"Wake Up, Everybody."--McFadden/Whitehead/Carstarphen
RIP John Whitehead 1948-2004