Auto rental optional insurance

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:40:37 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:19:38 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .

Renting cars in the US always seems so frought with complications, it
seems one either has to spend ages studying the smallest of the small
print, or just take full coverage and accept that it is going to cost
significantly more than in many other countries. When I book for
elsewhere it is simply a question of reducing cdw and tp or not, the
rest is included.

Yes. The drawback of little regulation really.

It seems to be backwards too, for example.. in the USA car hire that I've
seen you can take out insurance which will cover you up to a maximum
amount
of a claim. e.g. if you took out $10,000 worth of insurance and wrote off
the car you would still have to pay for what the car is worth over that.

In the UK it is the opposite, you are covered for everything but have to
pay
the first £500 (depending on what option you chose).

Now the USA version is better if you have a small prang, you aren't
likely
to pay anything. The UK version is better if you have a big accident
because
you don't end up out of pocket to the tune of thousands,, much like our
orginial poster.



The UK version as you describe it seems to be common across Europe,
plus Australia, New Zealand, and a few other places I have rented in.
Bearing in mind the differences with the USA version, combined with
some traffic rules and driving habits which are very different from
those in Europe and other locations, it always amazes me that so many
visitors try to cut corners on their rental car costs in the US. Go
for a cheap flight and maybe get more delays or missed connections, go
for a cheap hotel and get a lumpy matrass and a cockroach or two, but
saving money on car rental insurance can lead to serious problems. I
have known tour operators give their fly-drive customers A4 sheets
detailing exactly what they should sign up for when collecting their
car, what they might like to consider, and what they absolutely don't
need.

I guess that is part of the problem - most UK visitors to the USA dont
understand the options for insurance and which bits cover what, what the
legal minimums are and what maximum liability they face if they refuse a
particular option, and which bits might be covered by the holiday/travel
insurance they have already taken out.

And if you ask at the counter they talk so fast using terms you arent
familiar with that it doesn't help at all.

Maybe the UK travel insurance industry could add an optional car rental
cover choice to their packages.


But in the UK is it not the practice to insure known, specified
vehicles? Wouldn't it be a major step in to the unknown to insure any
vehicle that a policyholder chooses to drive, anywhere in the world?
--==++AJC++==--

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:40:37 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:19:38 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .

Renting cars in the US always seems so frought with complications, it
seems one either has to spend ages studying the smallest of the small
print, or just take full coverage and accept that it is going to cost
significantly more than in many other countries. When I book for
elsewhere it is simply a question of reducing cdw and tp or not, the
rest is included.

Yes. The drawback of little regulation really.

It seems to be backwards too, for example.. in the USA car hire that I've
seen you can take out insurance which will cover you up to a maximum
amount
of a claim. e.g. if you took out $10,000 worth of insurance and wrote off
the car you would still have to pay for what the car is worth over that.

In the UK it is the opposite, you are covered for everything but have to
pay
the first £500 (depending on what option you chose).

Now the USA version is better if you have a small prang, you aren't
likely
to pay anything. The UK version is better if you have a big accident
because
you don't end up out of pocket to the tune of thousands,, much like our
orginial poster.



The UK version as you describe it seems to be common across Europe,
plus Australia, New Zealand, and a few other places I have rented in.
Bearing in mind the differences with the USA version, combined with
some traffic rules and driving habits which are very different from
those in Europe and other locations, it always amazes me that so many
visitors try to cut corners on their rental car costs in the US. Go
for a cheap flight and maybe get more delays or missed connections, go
for a cheap hotel and get a lumpy matrass and a cockroach or two, but
saving money on car rental insurance can lead to serious problems. I
have known tour operators give their fly-drive customers A4 sheets
detailing exactly what they should sign up for when collecting their
car, what they might like to consider, and what they absolutely don't
need.

I guess that is part of the problem - most UK visitors to the USA dont
understand the options for insurance and which bits cover what, what the
legal minimums are and what maximum liability they face if they refuse a
particular option, and which bits might be covered by the holiday/travel
insurance they have already taken out.

And if you ask at the counter they talk so fast using terms you arent
familiar with that it doesn't help at all.

Maybe the UK travel insurance industry could add an optional car rental
cover choice to their packages.


But in the UK is it not the practice to insure known, specified
vehicles? Wouldn't it be a major step in to the unknown to insure any
vehicle that a policyholder chooses to drive, anywhere in the world?
--==++AJC++==--

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:40:37 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:19:38 +0100, "Mark Hewitt"
wrote:


"AJC" wrote in message
.. .

Renting cars in the US always seems so frought with complications, it
seems one either has to spend ages studying the smallest of the small
print, or just take full coverage and accept that it is going to cost
significantly more than in many other countries. When I book for
elsewhere it is simply a question of reducing cdw and tp or not, the
rest is included.

Yes. The drawback of little regulation really.

It seems to be backwards too, for example.. in the USA car hire that I've
seen you can take out insurance which will cover you up to a maximum
amount
of a claim. e.g. if you took out $10,000 worth of insurance and wrote off
the car you would still have to pay for what the car is worth over that.

In the UK it is the opposite, you are covered for everything but have to
pay
the first £500 (depending on what option you chose).

Now the USA version is better if you have a small prang, you aren't
likely
to pay anything. The UK version is better if you have a big accident
because
you don't end up out of pocket to the tune of thousands,, much like our
orginial poster.



The UK version as you describe it seems to be common across Europe,
plus Australia, New Zealand, and a few other places I have rented in.
Bearing in mind the differences with the USA version, combined with
some traffic rules and driving habits which are very different from
those in Europe and other locations, it always amazes me that so many
visitors try to cut corners on their rental car costs in the US. Go
for a cheap flight and maybe get more delays or missed connections, go
for a cheap hotel and get a lumpy matrass and a cockroach or two, but
saving money on car rental insurance can lead to serious problems. I
have known tour operators give their fly-drive customers A4 sheets
detailing exactly what they should sign up for when collecting their
car, what they might like to consider, and what they absolutely don't
need.

I guess that is part of the problem - most UK visitors to the USA dont
understand the options for insurance and which bits cover what, what the
legal minimums are and what maximum liability they face if they refuse a
particular option, and which bits might be covered by the holiday/travel
insurance they have already taken out.

And if you ask at the counter they talk so fast using terms you arent
familiar with that it doesn't help at all.

Maybe the UK travel insurance industry could add an optional car rental
cover choice to their packages.


But in the UK is it not the practice to insure known, specified
vehicles? Wouldn't it be a major step in to the unknown to insure any
vehicle that a policyholder chooses to drive, anywhere in the world?
--==++AJC++==--

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:04:20 +0200, AJC wrote:

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 01:16:44 GMT, devil wrote:

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:59 +0200, AJC wrote:


Renting cars in the US always seems so frought with complications, it
seems one either has to spend ages studying the smallest of the small
print, or just take full coverage and accept that it is going to cost
significantly more than in many other countries. When I book for
elsewhere it is simply a question of reducing cdw and tp or not, the
rest is included.

Interesting. My perception is the opposite. I never had a problem or
issue in North America. OTOH, in a couple of occasions in Europe, it
turns out I should have read the rental agreement carefully. Once in the
UK, Avis at Stansted, the guy was just very misleading. I basically told
him, look I only want whatever insurance I have to get by law; he took
that (disingenuously for sure) as meaning I wanted CDW, and I made the
mistake of not reading carefully. Once in Germany, with Hertz (whom I
normally find pretty good), At the Frankfurt Cambergerstrasse location,
again, after a long flight, I assumed that things would be as usual, per
my profile and reservation. Turns out I had signed for CDW which I never
do. In that event, it turned out to be quite bad since I did put some
serious damage to the car. As a result, not only did I have to pay CDW
but also a hefty deductible, while the credit card insurance would have
taken care of the whole thing. Cost me EUR 3000, perhaps more.

Likewise, if you look say at the Hertz Gold agreement, you'll notice that
there many more loopholes in the European version than in the American
one. Some of which more or less "allow" them to change the contractual
rules behind your back. Now these might not hold in court even in Europe,
but I suspect it would be an uphill battle.

Finally, look at what you hear about unauthorized charges on credit cards,
for instance by ferry or the tunnel operator if you don't show up for
your return, which apparently can be OK in the UK, but definitely not on
this side of the pond.

What may be true is that the fine print matters more in the US. But it
does work both ways and protects the consumer too.

(I was going to say that your perception vs. mine might have to do with
differences in familiarity. But looking back, in the last three or four
years, I have rented much more frequently in Europe than in the US.)


Hmmm. Interesting. An added factor of course is where one books. For
pre-booked rentals it seems the price but also what is included varies
according to where you book from. I invariably book through the .nl
site of a major rental company. My experience has been pretty much the
same for rental cars across Europe, Australia, NZ, Malaysia, Fiji,
French Polynesia, that the rental price includes insurance, and at
pick up point I simply dicsuss further reducing the excesses. It could
be that booking from North America the rates one is offered differ in
their coverage.


Yes, that is indeed the case. Rates and insurance included do vary
depending upon what you indicate as your place of residence.

Typically, if I rent a car in Germany using a north American address they
quote me a fare with only third party liability. If I book specifying a
place of residence in the EU, quite often the "best rate" does include CDW.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:14:10 +0100, Mark Hewitt wrote:


"devil" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:52:59 +0200, AJC wrote:

Once in the
UK, Avis at Stansted, the guy was just very misleading. I basically told
him, look I only want whatever insurance I have to get by law; he took
that (disingenuously for sure) as meaning I wanted CDW

Which is the minimum. You will have a hard time finding any company which
will give you less than that, I suspect it may be impossible.

Not according to my reservation.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:12:52 +0200, AJC wrote:


The US system must add greatly to the rental companies' costs. In the
UK and elsewhere, if the entire fleet of cars is insured with one
organisation, the rental company will be able to negotiate both a good
price and a good procedure for easily, smoothly dealing with claims.
In the US system it must be an expensive business for the rental
companies to have to pursue claims via individual renters and numerous
and diverse insurance organisations.

I suspect most large rental car operations are self-insured. I.e., they
take the risk themselves. And *sell* you insurance.

As to prices, from what I see, it's more or less similar everywhere.
Typically between 60% and 100% of the basis rental rate.

Of course, rental rates are all over the place, just like airfares, so the
statement above may not mean much.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:12:52 +0200, AJC wrote:


The US system must add greatly to the rental companies' costs. In the
UK and elsewhere, if the entire fleet of cars is insured with one
organisation, the rental company will be able to negotiate both a good
price and a good procedure for easily, smoothly dealing with claims.
In the US system it must be an expensive business for the rental
companies to have to pursue claims via individual renters and numerous
and diverse insurance organisations.

I suspect most large rental car operations are self-insured. I.e., they
take the risk themselves. And *sell* you insurance.

As to prices, from what I see, it's more or less similar everywhere.
Typically between 60% and 100% of the basis rental rate.

Of course, rental rates are all over the place, just like airfares, so the
statement above may not mean much.

In article ,
devil wrote:

I suspect most large rental car operations are self-insured. I.e., they
take the risk themselves. And *sell* you insurance.

I know that Hertz and Avis are self-insured, and I suspect most of the
others are self-insured, too. Rental car companies most certainly
don't negotiate ``a good price and a good procedure,'' and it costs
them very little to flog insurance. On the contrary, it's a source
of profit for them. Most people who buy it are already covered,
either through their personal policy, or through the credit card,
they just don't know it.

"Mark Hewitt" wrote in message
...

"AJC" wrote in message
news

But in the UK is it not the practice to insure known, specified
vehicles? Wouldn't it be a major step in to the unknown to insure any
vehicle that a policyholder chooses to drive, anywhere in the world?

Most UK insurance policies already do insure you to drive any other car.
But
only on a 3rd party basis.

and only if it is not rented to you, or owned by you.

"Mark Hewitt" wrote in message
...

"AJC" wrote in message
news

But in the UK is it not the practice to insure known, specified
vehicles? Wouldn't it be a major step in to the unknown to insure any
vehicle that a policyholder chooses to drive, anywhere in the world?

Most UK insurance policies already do insure you to drive any other car.
But
only on a 3rd party basis.

and only if it is not rented to you, or owned by you.