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Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 21st, 2011, 03:43 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Ablang[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane



THE MIDDLE SEAT
NOVEMBER 17, 2011

Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

Babies on airplanes. It's enough to make parents—and all the passengers
around them—cry.

Most airlines are now seating parents with babies in the back of the
plane. Quietly, airlines are blocking babies from bulkhead seats and in
one case, first class. Leslie Yazel has details on Lunch Break.

Parents are complaining of airline seating policies that create "baby
ghettos" in the back of planes. Even worse, families are increasingly
split up, leaving small children in middle seats in the company of
strangers unless passengers arrange seat swaps on board.

Michael Lyon booked seats together for his family for a trip from
Washington, D.C., to Bangkok on United Airlines in July and checked his
reservation frequently to make sure the seat assignments didn't change.
But when he checked in, all three had been split up, and his 6-year-old
son was moved to the back of the wide-body plane by himself for the
13-hour trip.

A United gate agent told Mr. Lyon there were no seats and nothing could
be done. He protested, ultimately getting a supervisor who found two
seats together so he could sit with his son. "Not only did the United
gate staff not seem to understand the importance of having him next to
us, they were hostile," Mr. Lyon said.

View Interactive
Peter and Maria Hoey

Even during peak holiday travel periods, adults, of course, outnumber
children on planes, and airlines have to balance the needs of parents
with other passengers whose nightmare is a long, crowded flight next to
a noisy child.

Several factors are at play. First, many seats on flights are reserved
for elite-level frequent fliers or full-fare business travelers.
Routinely full flights have less seat-assignment flexibility. Also,
airlines are increasingly selling choice seat assignments for extra
fees, an expensive option for families. And bulkhead rows at the front
of coach cabins that used to be ideal for traveling with infants,
offering more privacy for diaper changes and more space for restless
toddlers, now have to be reserved for passengers with disabilities. As a
result, families often end up separated or at the back of the plane.

In Mr. Lyon's case, United says its systems are set up to keep groups
together, but his seat assignments may have been altered because of a
change in aircraft for his trip. After he complained, including sending
United the names of passengers who witnessed the confrontation, the
airline said it conducted an investigation and apologized to him.

Baltimore mom Teresa Toth-Fejel flies AirTran occasionally and has been
told by airline agents that if she wants seats together with her
kids—ages 1, 2 and 6—she should pay extra for reserved seat assignments.
She sets alarms for 24 hours before departure to check-in online. "I'm
so freakishly worried about it," she said.

When that doesn't work, she has been able to take the free seat
assignments in different rows and trade with willing fellow
passengers—who likely don't want to be caring for a toddler on their own.

"I feel like it's discrimination against families. For us, it is not an
option to not be by my 2-year-old," she said.

Summer Smith Hull, who blogs about frequent-flier miles for families,
checks over and over for seat assignments if she doesn't get them right
away, grabbing seats that open up when travelers cancel or get upgraded
to first class. "The No. 1 way you set yourself up for trouble is if you
go to the airport without seat assignments," she said. A recent flight
didn't have seat assignments, so she kept calling the airline until she
finally got seats.

Adding to the complexity: Several airlines, including American and
United, don't let travelers add children flying free on a parent's lap
to reservations online. Instead, they must call the airline or get an
airport agent to add a lap child to their reservation. Southwest
Airlines requires taking a lap child to a ticket counter with a birth
certificate on the day of travel to verify the child is younger than 2
years old.

Enlarge Image
MIDSEAT
MIDSEAT
Peter and Maria Hoey

The plane's configuration can also affect placement. On smaller regional
jets, for example, some rows don't have an extra oxygen mask to be used
on an infant traveling on an adult's lap. That means someone who
reserved a seat and has a lap child must be relocated, splitting up a
family. (SeatGuru.com has information about location of oxygen masks.)

For their part, airlines say they try to keep families seated together,
encourage gate agents to rearrange seating to accommodate families and
still provide some kid-friendly amenities. While microwave ovens have
been removed from many planes since airlines no longer serve hot food,
carriers say flight attendants still warm bottles with hot water.
Wide-body jets still have diaper-changing areas.
For Families, Rules Vary

Some airline rules that families say make travel challenging:

STROLLERS

Airlines now have restrictions on the size of strollers, which have
been getting bigger and fancier. American won't gate-check jogging
strollers. United will only gate-check collapsible strollers.

BAGGAGE / CARRY-ONS

Diaper bags don't count toward carry-on baggage allowance on
Continental and American flights. Not so on many other carriers.
If you have a car seat and a stroller, Continental will only check
one free.
Lap children usually get no baggage allowance—any bags count
against allotments for parents. One mother traveling with one lap child
and two checked bags pays fees on both bags, totaling $120 round-trip. A
third bag would add $250 round-trip on Delta.

FARES

Most airlines charge lap-child fares for international flights,
typically 10% of the fare the adult pays for the seat, plus taxes and fees.
Southwest Airlines requires a copy of a birth certificate before
giving a lap child permission to board free.
If an infant turns 2 while traveling, United requires the purchase
of a ticket for the return flight home.

SECURITY

The Transportation Security Administration requires all equipment
to go through metal detectors. Parents must carry infants through metal
detectors as well. Baby formula and breast milk (which are specially
scanned), as well as medications and juice are exempt from 3.4-ounce
limits in 'reasonable quantities.' Liquids, gels and aerosols still must
comply. Children can now leave shoes on and TSA has eased up on pat-down
procedures for kids.

American recently installed new software that attempts to seat together
families with children 12 years and younger who don't have seat
assignments 72 hours before departure, significantly ahead of most other
customers.

Other carriers suggest families should pay for seat assignments to make
sure they stay together since it's harder to get seat assignments in
advance, free of charge. US Airways has no restrictions on families
reserving seats in advance, but "we do encourage families to take
advantage of Choice seats to ensure seating together," a spokesman said.

Overall increased stress of travel due to luggage charges and security
procedures has made travelers less tolerant of kids, some parents say.

"Sometimes other passengers are willing to help you out. But others look
at you like you are the devil for bringing a child on an airplane," said
Alecia Hoobing, who works for a technology company from her home in
Boise, Idaho. The evil eyes are more acute when families upgrade to
first class, she and Ms. Hull agree. Malaysia Airlines decided this year
to ban babies from first-class cabins of its Boeing 747 jets and next
year in its new Airbus A380 super-jumbos because of passenger complaints
of crying children in the expensive seats.

Ms. Hoobing thinks the hardest part of travel with kids is boarding.
Airlines typically no longer let families with small children board
first on flights. Instead, they often come after first class and
top-tier frequent fliers. Kids and parents—lugging car seats, diaper
bags, videogames and toys—clog the aisles and delay general boarding.
Though airlines provide leniency, such as exempting diaper bags for
carry-on bag limits and waiving checked-baggage fees for car seats and
strollers, they have tightened restrictions.

On June 1, for example, American stopped letting parents check jogging
strollers, non-collapsible strollers or strollers heavier than 20 pounds
at the gate. United already bans gate-checking strollers that don't
collapse.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...627445348.html
  #2  
Old November 21st, 2011, 10:46 PM posted to rec.travel.air
Fly Guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

Ablang wrote:

Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane


Babies should be put in the overhead compartment as far as I'm
concerned.

Babies on airplanes. It's enough to make parents — and all the
passengers around them—cry.


Not from what I've seen. Parents seem oblivious when their babies make
gawd-awful noises.

Most airlines are now seating parents with babies in the back of
the plane.


It's only taken them what - 40 years to figure that out?

Parents are complaining of airline seating policies that create
"baby ghettos" in the back of planes.


What's wrong with that? Why should they complain?

Michael Lyon booked seats for a trip to Bangkok But when he
checked in, all three had been split up, and his 6-year-old
son was moved to the back of the wide-body plane by himself
for the 13-hour trip.


Why would anyone want to take a 6-year-old on a 13-hour trip to
Thailand?

"I feel like it's discrimination against families. For us, it is not
an option to not be by my 2-year-old," she said.


Flying with a 2-year-old is a crime against "real" flyers.
  #3  
Old November 23rd, 2011, 10:39 PM posted to rec.travel.air
David Monaghan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11
Default Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:46:20 -0500, Fly Guy wrote:

Ablang wrote:

Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane


Babies should be put in the overhead compartment as far as I'm
concerned.


There wouldn't be room, if I had my way with all the adults I'd like to put
there.

Why would anyone want to take a 6-year-old on a 13-hour trip to
Thailand?


Because they'd be looking at criminal charges when they returned if they
left the child home alone?

"I feel like it's discrimination against families. For us, it is not
an option to not be by my 2-year-old," she said.


Putting a young child in unsupervised seats strikes me as a recipe for
disaster. If that's really what happened, what an earth were airline staff
thinking?

DaveM
  #4  
Old November 23rd, 2011, 11:31 PM posted to rec.travel.air
William Black[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 332
Default Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

On 23/11/11 21:39, David Monaghan wrote:
On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 16:46:20 -0500, Fly wrote:


Why would anyone want to take a 6-year-old on a 13-hour trip to
Thailand?


Because they'd be looking at criminal charges when they returned if they
left the child home alone?


Because they were going to work there for a couple of years?

Because she'd married a Thai and was going on a long holiday to visit
the family?

There are any number of legitimate reason for children being on a long
flight.

--
William Black

Free men have open minds
If you want loyalty, buy a dog...
  #5  
Old November 29th, 2011, 07:36 AM posted to rec.travel.air
Runge 131
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

ablang is the latest fighter for freedom ?

"Ablang" a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion :
...



THE MIDDLE SEAT
NOVEMBER 17, 2011

Flying With Little Children? Go to the Back of the Plane

Babies on airplanes. It's enough to make parents—and all the passengers
around them—cry.

Most airlines are now seating parents with babies in the back of the
plane. Quietly, airlines are blocking babies from bulkhead seats and in
one case, first class. Leslie Yazel has details on Lunch Break.

Parents are complaining of airline seating policies that create "baby
ghettos" in the back of planes. Even worse, families are increasingly
split up, leaving small children in middle seats in the company of
strangers unless passengers arrange seat swaps on board.

Michael Lyon booked seats together for his family for a trip from
Washington, D.C., to Bangkok on United Airlines in July and checked his
reservation frequently to make sure the seat assignments didn't change.
But when he checked in, all three had been split up, and his 6-year-old
son was moved to the back of the wide-body plane by himself for the
13-hour trip.

A United gate agent told Mr. Lyon there were no seats and nothing could
be done. He protested, ultimately getting a supervisor who found two
seats together so he could sit with his son. "Not only did the United
gate staff not seem to understand the importance of having him next to
us, they were hostile," Mr. Lyon said.

View Interactive
Peter and Maria Hoey

Even during peak holiday travel periods, adults, of course, outnumber
children on planes, and airlines have to balance the needs of parents
with other passengers whose nightmare is a long, crowded flight next to
a noisy child.

Several factors are at play. First, many seats on flights are reserved
for elite-level frequent fliers or full-fare business travelers.
Routinely full flights have less seat-assignment flexibility. Also,
airlines are increasingly selling choice seat assignments for extra
fees, an expensive option for families. And bulkhead rows at the front
of coach cabins that used to be ideal for traveling with infants,
offering more privacy for diaper changes and more space for restless
toddlers, now have to be reserved for passengers with disabilities. As a
result, families often end up separated or at the back of the plane.

In Mr. Lyon's case, United says its systems are set up to keep groups
together, but his seat assignments may have been altered because of a
change in aircraft for his trip. After he complained, including sending
United the names of passengers who witnessed the confrontation, the
airline said it conducted an investigation and apologized to him.

Baltimore mom Teresa Toth-Fejel flies AirTran occasionally and has been
told by airline agents that if she wants seats together with her
kids—ages 1, 2 and 6—she should pay extra for reserved seat assignments.
She sets alarms for 24 hours before departure to check-in online. "I'm
so freakishly worried about it," she said.

When that doesn't work, she has been able to take the free seat
assignments in different rows and trade with willing fellow
passengers—who likely don't want to be caring for a toddler on their own.

"I feel like it's discrimination against families. For us, it is not an
option to not be by my 2-year-old," she said.

Summer Smith Hull, who blogs about frequent-flier miles for families,
checks over and over for seat assignments if she doesn't get them right
away, grabbing seats that open up when travelers cancel or get upgraded
to first class. "The No. 1 way you set yourself up for trouble is if you
go to the airport without seat assignments," she said. A recent flight
didn't have seat assignments, so she kept calling the airline until she
finally got seats.

Adding to the complexity: Several airlines, including American and
United, don't let travelers add children flying free on a parent's lap
to reservations online. Instead, they must call the airline or get an
airport agent to add a lap child to their reservation. Southwest
Airlines requires taking a lap child to a ticket counter with a birth
certificate on the day of travel to verify the child is younger than 2
years old.

Enlarge Image
MIDSEAT
MIDSEAT
Peter and Maria Hoey

The plane's configuration can also affect placement. On smaller regional
jets, for example, some rows don't have an extra oxygen mask to be used
on an infant traveling on an adult's lap. That means someone who
reserved a seat and has a lap child must be relocated, splitting up a
family. (SeatGuru.com has information about location of oxygen masks.)

For their part, airlines say they try to keep families seated together,
encourage gate agents to rearrange seating to accommodate families and
still provide some kid-friendly amenities. While microwave ovens have
been removed from many planes since airlines no longer serve hot food,
carriers say flight attendants still warm bottles with hot water.
Wide-body jets still have diaper-changing areas.
For Families, Rules Vary

Some airline rules that families say make travel challenging:

STROLLERS

Airlines now have restrictions on the size of strollers, which have
been getting bigger and fancier. American won't gate-check jogging
strollers. United will only gate-check collapsible strollers.

BAGGAGE / CARRY-ONS

Diaper bags don't count toward carry-on baggage allowance on
Continental and American flights. Not so on many other carriers.
If you have a car seat and a stroller, Continental will only check
one free.
Lap children usually get no baggage allowance—any bags count
against allotments for parents. One mother traveling with one lap child
and two checked bags pays fees on both bags, totaling $120 round-trip. A
third bag would add $250 round-trip on Delta.

FARES

Most airlines charge lap-child fares for international flights,
typically 10% of the fare the adult pays for the seat, plus taxes and fees.
Southwest Airlines requires a copy of a birth certificate before
giving a lap child permission to board free.
If an infant turns 2 while traveling, United requires the purchase
of a ticket for the return flight home.

SECURITY

The Transportation Security Administration requires all equipment
to go through metal detectors. Parents must carry infants through metal
detectors as well. Baby formula and breast milk (which are specially
scanned), as well as medications and juice are exempt from 3.4-ounce
limits in 'reasonable quantities.' Liquids, gels and aerosols still must
comply. Children can now leave shoes on and TSA has eased up on pat-down
procedures for kids.

American recently installed new software that attempts to seat together
families with children 12 years and younger who don't have seat
assignments 72 hours before departure, significantly ahead of most other
customers.

Other carriers suggest families should pay for seat assignments to make
sure they stay together since it's harder to get seat assignments in
advance, free of charge. US Airways has no restrictions on families
reserving seats in advance, but "we do encourage families to take
advantage of Choice seats to ensure seating together," a spokesman said.

Overall increased stress of travel due to luggage charges and security
procedures has made travelers less tolerant of kids, some parents say.

"Sometimes other passengers are willing to help you out. But others look
at you like you are the devil for bringing a child on an airplane," said
Alecia Hoobing, who works for a technology company from her home in
Boise, Idaho. The evil eyes are more acute when families upgrade to
first class, she and Ms. Hull agree. Malaysia Airlines decided this year
to ban babies from first-class cabins of its Boeing 747 jets and next
year in its new Airbus A380 super-jumbos because of passenger complaints
of crying children in the expensive seats.

Ms. Hoobing thinks the hardest part of travel with kids is boarding.
Airlines typically no longer let families with small children board
first on flights. Instead, they often come after first class and
top-tier frequent fliers. Kids and parents—lugging car seats, diaper
bags, videogames and toys—clog the aisles and delay general boarding.
Though airlines provide leniency, such as exempting diaper bags for
carry-on bag limits and waiving checked-baggage fees for car seats and
strollers, they have tightened restrictions.

On June 1, for example, American stopped letting parents check jogging
strollers, non-collapsible strollers or strollers heavier than 20 pounds
at the gate. United already bans gate-checking strollers that don't
collapse.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...627445348.html

 




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