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The Tanzanian Change Mystery



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 16th, 2004, 10:49 AM
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In article ,
Hans-Georg Michna wrote:
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:12:11 -0700, "None" wrote:


This does not "feel" true. I never felt like anyone was
anything but being honorable to me. Even if I left the vendor
and sat down nearby they would locate me and deliver the
change.


Oh, sure. If you insist and wait for the charge, you will get
it. But some customers, particularly tourists, give in and
renounce the change, and that's what the trader is hoping for.


If it is dishonorable, it must at least be deniable. There are
some fine lines in the behavioral code that aren't usually
crossed.


Hans-Georg


From experience in Morocco I think the situation is physically
created by the fact that there isn't a large amount of small
change minted in the first place because its expensive to produce
coins and for some countries coin may be imported from foreign
mints.

As many people are poor they tend to save change and they don't
tend to have bank accounts therefore the change gets hidden away
as savings, further reducing the amount in circulation. This also
accounts for the fact that many countries aren't keen on you
taking currency out of the country.

--
besters..
Ned
===
  #22  
Old August 16th, 2004, 11:11 AM
Marc Lurie
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Hans-Georg,

I absolutely aggree with you about tourist oriented shops selling
curios etc. Their markups are enormous.

I was referring to shops that deal in local trade, such as those that
you find in trading posts along major routes, and in small villages
and towns etc. The places where tourists seldom visit...

Your last paragraph about the reasons for the tiny shop phenomenon are
spot-on.

Regards,
Marc

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:58:37 +0200, Hans-Georg Michna
wrote:

Marc,

I don't generally believe these low markup percentages. In many
cases the profit is low because of low trading volume. There are
often very many, very small traders, all competing for the same
business.

In many businesses, like tourist souvenirs, the markups are very
high, several hundred percent, if not several thousand, but the
volume is extremely low.

Reminds me of the peanuts cartoon where Charlie Brown opens a
little booth with just one tin of Coca Cola with a $100 price
sign.

So Lucy passes by and says, Charlie, you're crazy. Nobody's
going to buy a Coca Cola at that price.

Answers Charlie Brown, "But think of it, I only need to sell one
to be rich!"

Reasons for this tiny shop phenomenon are several, one being bad
economic policy (no land rights, extortional taxes, etc.),
others being lack of education (can't calculate the business
properly) that makes it very difficult for small traders to
expand their business. So most of them can never run an
efficient business, like a real, normal-sized shop.

Hans-Georg


  #23  
Old August 16th, 2004, 11:11 AM
Marc Lurie
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Posts: n/a
Default

Hans-Georg,

I absolutely aggree with you about tourist oriented shops selling
curios etc. Their markups are enormous.

I was referring to shops that deal in local trade, such as those that
you find in trading posts along major routes, and in small villages
and towns etc. The places where tourists seldom visit...

Your last paragraph about the reasons for the tiny shop phenomenon are
spot-on.

Regards,
Marc

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:58:37 +0200, Hans-Georg Michna
wrote:

Marc,

I don't generally believe these low markup percentages. In many
cases the profit is low because of low trading volume. There are
often very many, very small traders, all competing for the same
business.

In many businesses, like tourist souvenirs, the markups are very
high, several hundred percent, if not several thousand, but the
volume is extremely low.

Reminds me of the peanuts cartoon where Charlie Brown opens a
little booth with just one tin of Coca Cola with a $100 price
sign.

So Lucy passes by and says, Charlie, you're crazy. Nobody's
going to buy a Coca Cola at that price.

Answers Charlie Brown, "But think of it, I only need to sell one
to be rich!"

Reasons for this tiny shop phenomenon are several, one being bad
economic policy (no land rights, extortional taxes, etc.),
others being lack of education (can't calculate the business
properly) that makes it very difficult for small traders to
expand their business. So most of them can never run an
efficient business, like a real, normal-sized shop.

Hans-Georg


  #24  
Old August 16th, 2004, 11:11 AM
Marc Lurie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hans-Georg,

I absolutely aggree with you about tourist oriented shops selling
curios etc. Their markups are enormous.

I was referring to shops that deal in local trade, such as those that
you find in trading posts along major routes, and in small villages
and towns etc. The places where tourists seldom visit...

Your last paragraph about the reasons for the tiny shop phenomenon are
spot-on.

Regards,
Marc

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:58:37 +0200, Hans-Georg Michna
wrote:

Marc,

I don't generally believe these low markup percentages. In many
cases the profit is low because of low trading volume. There are
often very many, very small traders, all competing for the same
business.

In many businesses, like tourist souvenirs, the markups are very
high, several hundred percent, if not several thousand, but the
volume is extremely low.

Reminds me of the peanuts cartoon where Charlie Brown opens a
little booth with just one tin of Coca Cola with a $100 price
sign.

So Lucy passes by and says, Charlie, you're crazy. Nobody's
going to buy a Coca Cola at that price.

Answers Charlie Brown, "But think of it, I only need to sell one
to be rich!"

Reasons for this tiny shop phenomenon are several, one being bad
economic policy (no land rights, extortional taxes, etc.),
others being lack of education (can't calculate the business
properly) that makes it very difficult for small traders to
expand their business. So most of them can never run an
efficient business, like a real, normal-sized shop.

Hans-Georg


  #25  
Old August 16th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Hans-Georg Michna
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Default

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:49:11 +0100,
wrote:

From experience in Morocco I think the situation is physically
created by the fact that there isn't a large amount of small
change minted in the first place because its expensive to produce
coins and for some countries coin may be imported from foreign
mints.

As many people are poor they tend to save change and they don't
tend to have bank accounts therefore the change gets hidden away
as savings, further reducing the amount in circulation. This also
accounts for the fact that many countries aren't keen on you
taking currency out of the country.


Ned,

this is not so in Kenya and probably not in Tanzania either. The
central banks usually know very well how much cash to print and
mint. There is certainly no lack of coins in Kenya, for which I
can vouch.

Also, Kenya has long abandoned controlling the exchange rate.
They are now using a floating rate and actually appreciate if
you take their money with you and keep it as a souvenir, which
is pure income for the government, because they can reprint it.

Again I don't have the details for Tanzania.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #26  
Old August 16th, 2004, 02:45 PM
none
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So far there are many hypotheses, but no evidence.

Is there not anyone living in Africa, who personally knows a vendor or two,
who can find out?

The reason I persist is the answer(s) will be in a travelogue that may be
published.

"none" wrote in message
...
I was recently visiting Tanzania and encountered a mystery for which I can
find no answer. It is about getting change for small purchases from street
vendors. It was especially noticable when buying food from vendors in
Zanzibar. Here is the typical scenario:

I am in line behind several people buying seafood barbeque at a very busy
waterfront market. This is the place where hundreds of tourists find
wonderful food in Stonetown, Zanzibar. The vendor is doing a very brisk
business. I order perhaps 1,500 shillings worth of something, get it, and
here is the mystery - he never has change. I know he has been stuffing

money
hand over fist under the table cloth or into his pockets. He does not
usually even need to look in these places, but knows he does not have
change. I get my food and stand around waiting while the vendor disappears
off into the darkness and returns in a minute or two with change. I was
never cheated, so short or no change was not what was going on. I was

never
able to figure out where the vendor went or who he met. This happened over
and over, not only on the waterfront, but at other vendors as well. In
Arusha I met a German expat whom I asked about this. He said he had been

in
Tanzania for 3 years and had still not figured it out. Is it some kind of
underground banking going on? Is there a money holder off site for robbery
protection?

Can anyone explain this??????




  #27  
Old August 16th, 2004, 02:45 PM
none
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

So far there are many hypotheses, but no evidence.

Is there not anyone living in Africa, who personally knows a vendor or two,
who can find out?

The reason I persist is the answer(s) will be in a travelogue that may be
published.

"none" wrote in message
...
I was recently visiting Tanzania and encountered a mystery for which I can
find no answer. It is about getting change for small purchases from street
vendors. It was especially noticable when buying food from vendors in
Zanzibar. Here is the typical scenario:

I am in line behind several people buying seafood barbeque at a very busy
waterfront market. This is the place where hundreds of tourists find
wonderful food in Stonetown, Zanzibar. The vendor is doing a very brisk
business. I order perhaps 1,500 shillings worth of something, get it, and
here is the mystery - he never has change. I know he has been stuffing

money
hand over fist under the table cloth or into his pockets. He does not
usually even need to look in these places, but knows he does not have
change. I get my food and stand around waiting while the vendor disappears
off into the darkness and returns in a minute or two with change. I was
never cheated, so short or no change was not what was going on. I was

never
able to figure out where the vendor went or who he met. This happened over
and over, not only on the waterfront, but at other vendors as well. In
Arusha I met a German expat whom I asked about this. He said he had been

in
Tanzania for 3 years and had still not figured it out. Is it some kind of
underground banking going on? Is there a money holder off site for robbery
protection?

Can anyone explain this??????




  #28  
Old August 16th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Hans-Georg Michna
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 06:45:28 -0700, "none" wrote:

So far there are many hypotheses, but no evidence.

Is there not anyone living in Africa, who personally knows a vendor or two,
who can find out?

The reason I persist is the answer(s) will be in a travelogue that may be
published.


If you ask vendors, you will be told stories, but not
necessarily the truth.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #29  
Old August 16th, 2004, 03:14 PM
Hans-Georg Michna
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 06:45:28 -0700, "none" wrote:

So far there are many hypotheses, but no evidence.

Is there not anyone living in Africa, who personally knows a vendor or two,
who can find out?

The reason I persist is the answer(s) will be in a travelogue that may be
published.


If you ask vendors, you will be told stories, but not
necessarily the truth.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.
  #30  
Old August 16th, 2004, 04:56 PM
Pat Anderson
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Posts: n/a
Default

In message , none
writes
So far there are many hypotheses, but no evidence.

Is there not anyone living in Africa, who personally knows a vendor or two,
who can find out?

The reason I persist is the answer(s) will be in a travelogue that may be
published.

"none" wrote in message
...
I was recently visiting Tanzania and encountered a mystery for which I can
find no answer. It is about getting change for small purchases from street
vendors. It was especially noticable when buying food from vendors in
Zanzibar. Here is the typical scenario:

I am in line behind several people buying seafood barbeque at a very busy
waterfront market. This is the place where hundreds of tourists find
wonderful food in Stonetown, Zanzibar. The vendor is doing a very brisk
business. I order perhaps 1,500 shillings worth of something, get it, and
here is the mystery - he never has change. I know he has been stuffing

money
hand over fist under the table cloth or into his pockets. He does not
usually even need to look in these places, but knows he does not have
change. I get my food and stand around waiting while the vendor disappears
off into the darkness and returns in a minute or two with change. I was
never cheated, so short or no change was not what was going on. I was

never
able to figure out where the vendor went or who he met. This happened over
and over, not only on the waterfront, but at other vendors as well. In
Arusha I met a German expat whom I asked about this. He said he had been

in
Tanzania for 3 years and had still not figured it out. Is it some kind of
underground banking going on? Is there a money holder off site for robbery
protection?

Can anyone explain this??????




I don`t think that you will find anyone who can explain it, it is quite
simply part of the African way of life! There is no grand mystery,
it`s part of what happens in the daily life amongst small traders and
in village markets.
Pat
--
Pat Anderson
 




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