Drive rental car from US to Mexico??

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:37:31 +0200, Tom P
wrote:

the Usenet timelag means I replied to you before this thread showed up.
It sounds like the Mex immigration procedures are not much different
from the US immigration, as far as arrivals from outside N America are
concerned, meaning you get a tourist card on arrval, and if you're
having a bad hair day or whatever, you might just miss returning it when
you exit. (used to be the airlines did all this leaving the US, and
sometimes screwed up.)
To return to subject, if you drive into Mex from San Diego, and if you
intend staying longer than 3 days, and intend to drive more than 100Km,
do you have to go and look for immigration at the border or does it just
happen?

I can't speak for San Diego and south since I've never gone down
into Baja, but my understanding is that all of Baja is frontier
zone, but I could be wrong.

The frontier zone isn't a constant 100 mile band, more like 20 or
thirty miles, but varies to fit the geography of towns and
highways and all. When you are leaving the frontier zone you will
find a checkpoint and usually a permit office. You need to get a
car permit and a tourist permit (except in Sonora which has
special rules).

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:22:40 +0200, Tom P
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:37:56 +0200, Tom P
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:

I suggest you contact the rental companies and ask them for an
unequivocal answer. And you will have to buy Mexican auto
insurance from a Mexican company (but sold by American agents,
including AAA affiliates). In theory, if you remain in Mexico for
over 72 hours you will also need a visitor's card even though you
will be in the frontier zone.

Thanks.
I just found this link:
http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/?p=1398
T.

Cool. But do check on the Tourist Card (not mentioned on that web
site): http://www.mexonline.com/visamex.htm

The 72-hour requirement is stated a bit ambiguously, but the card
is required, even in the border zone. On the other hand, you are
quite unlikely to be detected without one if don't encounter any
internal check points.

When I fly to Mexico, I declare how long I'm staying, and I get a
tourist card. Are you saying that if I drive into Mexico, I don't go
through immigration?

Not at the border itself. We take European visitors down to
Nogales all the time; no one looks at a thing going into Mexico,
although there are usually some guys in uniforms that could
probably give you a hard time if they thought something fishy was
going on. But at Nogales we usually walk across the border.

Driving you do go through a sort of filtering system. There's a
red/green light. When the light is green you go through, no
problem. If it stays red they'll direct you over to an inspection
lane. We've never had to do that ourselves.

The real checks occur when you are leaving the Zona Frontera and
going deeper into Mexico. Staying in the Zona Frontera is
hassle-free.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:57:54 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:44:14 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
m...

Cool. But do check on the Tourist Card (not mentioned on that web
site): http://www.mexonline.com/visamex.htm

The 72-hour requirement is stated a bit ambiguously, but the card
is required, even in the border zone. On the other hand, you are
quite unlikely to be detected without one if don't encounter any
internal check points.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but there is NO
requirement for a tourist card in the border zone, which includes
Ensenada.

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/me...exico_visa.htm

So, ok, I did a bit more digging. Online I can find support for your
version and support for my version. As a technical matter you might be
right. As a practical matter no one gets an FMT for the border zone.
Here's
the thing: The tourist card has to be stamped at an entry point.

Huh? Nobody stamped our FMTs when we entered Mexico on our recent
trip down to Guaymas.

If they didn't the procedure has changed in the last year. You can get
an FMT form at the Sonora tourism office in Tucson, but the last time I got
one there they couldn't stamp it. That was done at the little office at the
21km checkpoint.

They couldn't have, because we didn't have
them yet. We go our FMTs at the south end of the border zone. You
cna drive across the border, park, and get your FMTs there at the
border, tough.

When you
drive in this has to be done before you can get the FMT validated at a
bank.
The OP isn't going to see an entry point. The entry points are on the
south
side of the border zone and at airports.

Oh. Ambiguity alert. The "entry point" is at the actual border.
The things at the south edge of the frontier zone are
checkpoints.

Actually not, but I'm not going to argue semantics.

Take here locally in Southern AZ
for example. If I wanted to get a tourist card to stay in Nogales Sonora I
would have to drive down to the 21km checkpoint on the south side of the
border zone to get it stamped and then return to Nogales.

No you wouldn't. I'm almost certain you can get FMTs at the
downtown Nogales crossing.

You might be able to get the form, but they won't be able to stamp it
there.

There's no record
that you entered Mexido until you go through an entry point. Up until that
point the Mexican government has no way of knowing how long you've been in
the country.

That part's true, which is why I advised originally that it was
unlikely anyone would notice you'd been there more than 72 hours.

While I was digging I also found sites that claim it's important to
return your tourist card. I've had quite a few of them. The only time I've
ever returned one was when I left Mexico through an airport.

You could be in deep doo-doo if for some reason the Mexicans
discover you hadn't turned in the card, though. How they would
find out baffles me, though, unless you said something stupid.

LOL, I don't know anyone who returns them except at airports. If you
fail to get an FMT and get caught the worst the "deep doo-doo" gets is a $40
fine. I know an idiot online who didn't get his FMT validated at a bank
because he didn't understand the instructions and then got all panicked and
caused a scene on his way out of Mexico--otherwise they would have never
noticed him. The authorities scolded him for being an idiot, took his name
and address, told him they would send instructions for straightening it
out--and that was the last he heard of it.

Thirty some years ago there was a flap here because a UofA
professor had failed to turn in his car permit at Nogales when
returning to the USA. He called the Mexican consul here in Tucson
and asked what to do about it. The consul suggested he simply go
down and turn it in. The damn fool drove across the line into
Sonora, did a U-turn and drove back to the crossing. He handed in
the permit and apologized and explained that no one had asked for
it before. So the Mexicans impounded his car!

I myaelf had recently returned from Rocky Point and at Gringo
Pass had waited for a Mexican official to come out and take my
permit (we needed them back then). No one came so I drove home.
On seeing that story in the newspaper I was kind of worried until
I realized that at that time the Mexicans had no way of tracking
this sort of thing.

You are talking about two--actually three--different things and they
*do* keep track of temporary import permits. If you don't return the
temporary import permit it causes problems. For one thing they will not
issue two permits to one person at the same time. If you don't return the
old temporary import permit they will require you to pay the duty on the car
as if you had imported it into Mexico before they will give you another
temporary import permit. This can run up to $400.

Several years ago my girlfriend and I drove across Texas to Matamoros
Mexico in a motorhome we had purchased to tour Mexico with. She had a
vehicle at home with a temporary import permit on it. At that time we were
spending so much time in Mexico that we never returned a temporary import
permit until it expired. The motorhome was in her name. She couldn't get a
temporary import permit for the motorhome until she cleared the temporary
import permit on the vehicle sitting in Tucson. Reasoning that the Mexican
beauracracy isn't particularly well organized we went to a second entry
point and managed to get a temporary import permit on the motorhome, but we
have asked at other entry points and been told that they would not issue a
second permit until the first one was cleared.

And just to make things more complicated: Most of Sonora is now covered
by a different set of red tape. They have the Sonora Only Free Pass for
vehicles that you can get instead of the temporary import permit. The Free
Pass has to be returned to the same place that you got it. I'm not going to
try to go into all the ins and outs of this one, particularly as they change
it regularly. I assume the Sonoran state government is trying to keep track
of these because the Federal government does and has tried to collect the
duties from Sonora on cars for which the Free Pass wasn't returned. I never
did hear what they did to take care of that, but the Fed's were asking for a
substantial sum of money.

TB

"Tom P" wrote in message
...

the Usenet timelag means I replied to you before this thread showed up.
It sounds like the Mex immigration procedures are not much different from
the US immigration, as far as arrivals from outside N America are
concerned, meaning you get a tourist card on arrval, and if you're having
a bad hair day or whatever, you might just miss returning it when you
exit. (used to be the airlines did all this leaving the US, and sometimes
screwed up.)

Immigration procedures are different if you're driving instead of
flying. If you're flying the tourist card is usually paid for when you buy
your airline ticket and someone at the airport will ask for it when you
leave. When you're walking or driving it's stamped at the entry point, which
can be at the border or the checkpoint where you leave the border zone,
depending on where you are. You're required to stop at a bank to pay for the
visa and have it validated. Here in Tucson most folks use the truck by-pass
around Nogales and go through immigration at the 21km checkpoint at the end
of the border zone. No one asks for it when you drive out and I don't even
know where you would turn it in. I've never seen anyone turning one in at
any of the immigration offices on the highway.

To return to subject, if you drive into Mex from San Diego, and if you
intend staying longer than 3 days, and intend to drive more than 100Km, do
you have to go and look for immigration at the border or does it just
happen?

You aren't going to see an immigration office because in Baja it's south
of Ensenada.

http://octopup.org/mexico2005/ensenada.htm

TB

Maybe this link will help.

http://www.cabaja.com/

Bart


"Tom P" wrote in message
...
We need to visit Ensenada in Baja California, and it looks like the
easiest way to do it would be to fly to San Diego and drive the 80 odd
miles.
Is there a problem taking a rental car over the border? Any specialist
rental companies?

TIA
T.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:25:47 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:57:54 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:44:14 -0700, "Technobarbarian"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
om...

Cool. But do check on the Tourist Card (not mentioned on that web
site): http://www.mexonline.com/visamex.htm

The 72-hour requirement is stated a bit ambiguously, but the card
is required, even in the border zone. On the other hand, you are
quite unlikely to be detected without one if don't encounter any
internal check points.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but there is NO
requirement for a tourist card in the border zone, which includes
Ensenada.

http://studenttravel.about.com/od/me...exico_visa.htm

So, ok, I did a bit more digging. Online I can find support for your
version and support for my version. As a technical matter you might be
right. As a practical matter no one gets an FMT for the border zone.
Here's
the thing: The tourist card has to be stamped at an entry point.

Huh? Nobody stamped our FMTs when we entered Mexico on our recent
trip down to Guaymas.

If they didn't the procedure has changed in the last year. You can get
an FMT form at the Sonora tourism office in Tucson, but the last time I got
one there they couldn't stamp it.

There is no logner a Sonoran tourist office in Tucson.

That was done at the little office at the 21km checkpoint.

Which, as noted before, I would not take as an entry point ot
Mexico; the entry point would be at the downtown crossing or the
Mariposa crossing.

They couldn't have, because we didn't have
them yet. We go our FMTs at the south end of the border zone. You
cna drive across the border, park, and get your FMTs there at the
border, tough.

When you
drive in this has to be done before you can get the FMT validated at a
bank.
The OP isn't going to see an entry point. The entry points are on the
south
side of the border zone and at airports.

Oh. Ambiguity alert. The "entry point" is at the actual border.
The things at the south edge of the frontier zone are
checkpoints.

Actually not, but I'm not going to argue semantics.

To me, an "entry point" is where you enter the country, not some
internal check point. To say other wise would be saying that when
I went down into Nogales Sonora last week I didn't enter Mexico.

You can skip the semantic argument, but if you want to avoid
misunderstanding I think it should be clear what you mean.


Take here locally in Southern AZ
for example. If I wanted to get a tourist card to stay in Nogales Sonora I
would have to drive down to the 21km checkpoint on the south side of the
border zone to get it stamped and then return to Nogales.

No you wouldn't. I'm almost certain you can get FMTs at the
downtown Nogales crossing.

You might be able to get the form, but they won't be able to stamp it
there.

The stamp is done at a bank, and the office I saw that seems to
be the permit office had a bank next door. Next time I go to
Nogie I'll check.


You could be in deep doo-doo if for some reason the Mexicans
discover you hadn't turned in the card, though. How they would
find out baffles me, though, unless you said something stupid.

LOL, I don't know anyone who returns them except at airports. If you
fail to get an FMT and get caught the worst the "deep doo-doo" gets is a $40
fine. I know an idiot online who didn't get his FMT validated at a bank
because he didn't understand the instructions and then got all panicked and
caused a scene on his way out of Mexico--otherwise they would have never
noticed him. The authorities scolded him for being an idiot, took his name
and address, told him they would send instructions for straightening it
out--and that was the last he heard of it.

Thirty some years ago there was a flap here because a UofA
professor had failed to turn in his car permit at Nogales when
returning to the USA. He called the Mexican consul here in Tucson
and asked what to do about it. The consul suggested he simply go
down and turn it in. The damn fool drove across the line into
Sonora, did a U-turn and drove back to the crossing. He handed in
the permit and apologized and explained that no one had asked for
it before. So the Mexicans impounded his car!

I myaelf had recently returned from Rocky Point and at Gringo
Pass had waited for a Mexican official to come out and take my
permit (we needed them back then). No one came so I drove home.
On seeing that story in the newspaper I was kind of worried until
I realized that at that time the Mexicans had no way of tracking
this sort of thing.

You are talking about two--actually three--different things and they
*do* keep track of temporary import permits. If you don't return the
temporary import permit it causes problems.

Not for me, it didn't.

For one thing they will not
issue two permits to one person at the same time. If you don't return the
old temporary import permit they will require you to pay the duty on the car
as if you had imported it into Mexico before they will give you another
temporary import permit. This can run up to $400.

At the time in question that obviously wasn't true, since I
re-entered Mexico a number of times thereafter. I reckon, though,
that these days even the mexicans have computer systems.

Several years ago my girlfriend and I drove across Texas to Matamoros
Mexico in a motorhome we had purchased to tour Mexico with. She had a
vehicle at home with a temporary import permit on it. At that time we were
spending so much time in Mexico that we never returned a temporary import
permit until it expired. The motorhome was in her name. She couldn't get a
temporary import permit for the motorhome until she cleared the temporary
import permit on the vehicle sitting in Tucson. Reasoning that the Mexican
beauracracy isn't particularly well organized we went to a second entry
point and managed to get a temporary import permit on the motorhome, but we
have asked at other entry points and been told that they would not issue a
second permit until the first one was cleared.

Did you notice that my incident was at the time of the
professor's incident, which was thirty-odd years ago? You reckon
things might be diffrerent today?



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *