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KLM-Air France
Anybody have thoughts on this deal? I've heard rumors that the E.U. has
already given an informal - or formal - greenlight to the deal. This seems kinda odd given the E.U.'s tendency to scrutinize deals that create BIG companies. Rich -- Visit America's Aviation Headquarters: www.usaviation.com |
#2
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KLM-Air France
"ITRADE" wrote...
Anybody have thoughts on this deal? There are multiple threads of discussions on: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/ I've heard rumors that the E.U. has already given an informal - or formal - greenlight to the deal. I believe it's informal. The CEO of KLM said in a Dutch programme that they checked with several EU agencies and discussed them. So, the interviewer asked hhim if he had gotten the green light... his reply was that he was sure there wouldn't be any problems, because they (Air France + KLM) wouldn't have made the public announcement just to withdraw it later. Something like that... Greetz, *tada!* |
#3
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KLM-Air France
Anyone heard anything about what they'll do with their frequent flyer
programs? Merge? Scrap? Leave as they are? Gerry "AJC" wrote in message ... On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:27:20 GMT, "ITRADE" wrote: Anybody have thoughts on this deal? I've heard rumors that the E.U. has already given an informal - or formal - greenlight to the deal. This seems kinda odd given the E.U.'s tendency to scrutinize deals that create BIG companies. Rich |
#4
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KLM-Air France
In article ,
AJC wrote: On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:27:20 GMT, "ITRADE" wrote: Anybody have thoughts on this deal? I've heard rumors that the E.U. has already given an informal - or formal - greenlight to the deal. This seems kinda odd given the E.U.'s tendency to scrutinize deals that create BIG companies. Rich Mixed reactions here. Sadness that a national institution, and the world's oldest airline (yes, I know Qantas claims the same) is going actually they do recoqnize they started a few months after KL to lose it's independance, but acceptance that something had to happen in today's climate. Concerns about the very different working characteristics of the two nationalities, but also positive views on the potential of such an alliance, both hubs with room for expansion, both linked with the European high speed rail network, networks with very little direct overlap, they compete directly on just two routes I believe. Hopefully the EU will require slots being made available for other carriers in the NL-F market, in which case I would expect to see Easyjet start AMS-CDG. Apparently the KL/NW partnership is continuing as usual, it will be interesting to see how this all fits together, will NW join Sky Team, what about KL's other partners, MH, KQ, etc? Interesting times ahead. --==++AJC++==-- |
#5
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KLM-Air France
Same here - we should be so lucky!
Gerry "AJC" wrote in message ... On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:07:14 +0100, "Gerard Farrell" wrote: Anyone heard anything about what they'll do with their frequent flyer programs? Merge? Scrap? Leave as they are? Gerry No news yet, I'm a member of both, ideally I'd like the opportunity to combinethe two in to one account. --==++AJC++==-- |
#6
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KLM-Air France
AJC wrote:
Mixed reactions here. Sadness that a national institution, and the world's oldest airline (yes, I know Qantas claims the same) is going to lose it's independance, but acceptance that something had to happen in today's climate. In a way, I admire Air France. In the face of Oneworld and Star, Air France decided to start its own alliance, and contrary to others such as Swissair or KLM, they persevered and grew Skyteam into something that is now quite respectable. Meanwhile, Oneworld was resting on its laurels, even going as far as telling Swiss last year that it wasn't interested in growing. But with criticisms that BA was now shrinking and becoming irrelevant compared to Skyteam and Star on the one hand, and to Easyjet/Ryanair on the other hand, BA made a 180 and scrambled to accept Swiss. Looking back, it would be interesting to look at whatever decision KLM took (or didn't take) which lead that airline becoming a "beggar" instead of a leader. What happened to prevent KLM from growing its alliance after it got Northwest ? Concerns about the very different working characteristics of the two nationalities, The french can provide the food/wine/FAs, the dutch can provide the mature, serious management. On the other hand, for all its flaws Air France has managed to transform itself from the ultimate civil service organisation with frequent strikes, overstaffed, unlimited subsidies etc into a respectable corporation ready to be privatised. And they have managed to grow a small alliance into something respectable. So one has to admit that AF may be better than KLM. Again, what went wrong with KLM ? It used to be the respectable airline with AF being the basket case. but also positive views on the potential of such an alliance, both hubs with room for expansion, I think that the big potential is the potential for NW, Continental and Delta all being part of Skyteam. Skyteam will have a great sales force which will give a USA face to flights transiting through CDG or AMS. And it will be a far greater force than United or American. Also, United is in a bind. Its european partner is hubbed at Frankfurt, but United really wants to be hubbed at LHR. And American has consistently failed to leverage Oneworld because it always asked for too involved a wedding with BA , prompting refusal from authorities. This may be changing now though. Initially, the KLM routes may have much value because they can't be moved from AMS to CDG. But once the EU signs a new deal with the USA, Air France would be able to move KLM's routes to CDG. That is the danger. However, in a way, if the 2 remain distinct, perhaps each airport can bid for a flight and the lowest bidder wins, and this would instill competition and lower prices between CDG and AMS airports. But if it becomes apparent that Air France will want everything at CDG, then Aéroports de Paris won't feel the need to be very competitive, and Schiphol will end up shrinking. One big advantage for AMS is that it is a single airport. Paris has 2 main airports. Transit between the 2 is a pain. both linked with the European high speed rail network, networks with very little direct overlap, they compete directly on just two routes I believe. It will be interesting to see the impact of high speed rail and of course the low cost carriers. I have a feeling that AF/KLM's regional routes may be decimated by rail and low cost carriers. |
#7
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KLM-Air France
"Wet fart" wrote in message
... AJC wrote: SNIP Also, United is in a bind. Its european partner is hubbed at Frankfurt, but United really wants to be hubbed at LHR. And American has consistently failed to leverage Oneworld because it always asked for too involved a wedding with BA , prompting refusal from authorities. This may be changing now though. Well, its not that simple/extreme. With * UA has available hubs at LHR (BD), VIE (OS), and CPH (SK). Rich -- Visit America's Aviation Headquarters: www.usaviation.com |
#8
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KLM-Air France
"Gerard Farrell" schreef in bericht ... Anyone heard anything about what they'll do with their frequent flyer programs? Merge? Scrap? Leave as they are? I got an e-mail from KL informing me that changes will me made starting April 2004. Sjoerd |
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