The "Real" question regarding such passengers

Noticing the discussion on the Qantas Flight Crew incident with the Arab
passengers raises what i think is a real question:

When do Arab passengers go from non-suspicious to suspicious?

Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

But how do you deal with that fear, especially vis-a-vis the passenger(s) ?

Personally speaking, it's different for me each time. If a Middle Eastern
person wearing western clothing, t-shirts, a suit, etc. boards my plane, I
may not be so concerned. However, replace that with traditional Arab
clothing and a beard or a woman with a headscarf and I DO get concerned.

I'm being honest and I think a lot of Americans feel this way. We are humans
and Arabs with long beards and robes are not 'comforting' post-911. I just
can't see around it.
And respectfully, I do have Arab/Muslim acquaintances but they all are
professional types with total western outlooks.

So what do I and many, many others do when in a plane and confronted with
someone who fits the 'worrisome' description?

-Avian

Avian wrote:
Noticing the discussion on the Qantas Flight Crew incident with the Arab
passengers raises what i think is a real question:

When do Arab passengers go from non-suspicious to suspicious?

Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

No, Avian, not everyone. I


But how do you deal with that fear, especially vis-a-vis the passenger(s) ?

Personally speaking, it's different for me each time. If a Middle Eastern
person wearing western clothing, t-shirts, a suit, etc. boards my plane, I
may not be so concerned. However, replace that with traditional Arab
clothing and a beard or a woman with a headscarf and I DO get concerned.

I'm being honest and I think a lot of Americans feel this way. We are humans
and Arabs with long beards and robes are not 'comforting' post-911. I just
can't see around it.
And respectfully, I do have Arab/Muslim acquaintances but they all are
professional types with total western outlooks.

I guess you don't deal with professionals that dress differently.


So what do I and many, many others do when in a plane and confronted with
someone who fits the 'worrisome' description?

There is a difference between being a little bothered and refusing to
fly with them. It's not like there was a massive rebellion by the
passengers not to fly with them.

Avian wrote:
When do Arab passengers go from non-suspicious to suspicious?


The same as the question "when do passengers go from non-suspicious to
suspicious ?"

Look at the very first Airport movie. It wasn't an arab, it was a normal white
american. But on the plane, his nervous attitude, clutching his briefcase etc etc.

As far as women wearing veils on a plane, they wouldn't worry me a bit. A
woman with dynamite sticks strapped around her waist might worry me though.

Have you seen the picture of that shoe bomber ? Would you have rung an alarm
because he looked arab ? He didn't look arab.

If I see an arab looking guy interacting normally with fellow passengers, I'd
be more interested in meeting him and getting his opinions on what is
happening in the world than calling the FA to raise suspicions.

I think it all has to do with understanding a person's body language. If you
can't read it, then you start to assume many things because arabs often have a
different body language and facial expressions.

If you see a black person on a plane, do you assume he will try to steal your
wallet ?

If you see a black person in a shady area of town, you may fear he will try to
steal from you. But when you see a black person in a plane, you assume he is
educated, well mannered and won't attack you.

The problem is that the cliché or "arabs" is that they are dangerous on
planes, but ok elsewhere.
It is a cliché. Not reality.

If I see male arab with the traditional arab clothing, then I assume he is
very rich, educated and someone I'd really like to meet. (But chances he would
be in 1st class).

It would be interesting to see how flight attendants react to flights in/out
of Detroit since Detroit has such a large arab population. I recall Northwest
had quite a few discriminatory actions against passengers due to their ethnic
look. You'd think that Northwest which has a hub at Detroit would have been
the last airline to have to fix discrimination problems since its FAs should
have been very accustommed to having arab looking passengers.


How many incidents has British Airways had at Heathrow due to FAs
over-reacting to arab looking passengers ? There are tons of folks of middle
eastern origins in the UK. Heck, even the venerable BBC has news
reporters/anchors which have arabic names but speek perfect BBC english. Are
they terrorists ?

I think that americans had denied the concept of immigration in their own
country (except for mexicans and asians). But after 9-11 they woke up and
thought that middle east people were something new in the USA. It wasn't new,
it was just that before, they were never noticed and folks thought they were
just americans with dark hair and strong beard (shaved with a mustache, of course).

But now, all of a sudden, those very people that had not been noticed before
turned out to all be terrorists.

Avian wrote:
Personally speaking, it's different for me each time. If a Middle Eastern
person wearing western clothing, t-shirts, a suit, etc. boards my plane, I
may not be so concerned. However, replace that with traditional Arab
clothing and a beard or a woman with a headscarf and I DO get concerned.

The 11-Sept hijackers were all wearing western clothing.

In the Gulf it's generally the well-to-do who wear traditional clothing
while the poorer people are more likely to wear western.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Site remodeled 10-Sept-2003: Hundreds of new photos, easier navigation.

"Avian" wrote in message
. net...
Noticing the discussion on the Qantas Flight Crew incident with the Arab
passengers raises what i think is a real question:

When do Arab passengers go from non-suspicious to suspicious?

Right after 9/11. (Been living in a cave the past 3 years?)


Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.


That is the definition of racism.

But how do you deal with that fear, especially vis-a-vis the passenger(s)
?


I don't have that fear, but for you, don't fly with any "Arab looking"
passengers. Better to stay home.

Personally speaking, it's different for me each time. If a Middle Eastern
person wearing western clothing, t-shirts, a suit, etc. boards my plane, I
may not be so concerned.

All the 9/11 terrorists wore western clothes.

However, replace that with traditional Arab
clothing and a beard or a woman with a headscarf and I DO get concerned.


None of the 9/11 terrorists were women.

I'm being honest and I think a lot of Americans feel this way. We are
humans
and Arabs with long beards and robes are not 'comforting' post-911. I just
can't see around it.
And respectfully, I do have Arab/Muslim acquaintances but they all are
professional types with total western outlooks.

Some of your best friends are Muslim, I am sure.


So what do I and many, many others do when in a plane and confronted with
someone who fits the 'worrisome' description?

Like I said before, don't fly.


-Avian

I tried to discuss a real concern, that at least and I and others have
expressed. these are not just some concerns of luxury, but what many believe
as matters of national and personal security.

instead, most of the responses have been poking fun and ridiculing me for
even thinking this way. if the idea is to simply marginalize people with my
thoughts and accuse of them of being the very thing they are trying not to
be (paranoid racists), than that's a pretty sad state of affairs.

we can be very intolerant in our spirit to promote "tolerance."

-Avian


"Craig Welch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:52:53 GMT, "Avian"
wrote:

Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

What utter nonsense. Your 'everyone' is certainly different to my
'everyone'. Thank goodness.

--
Craig

I tried to discuss a real concern, that at least and I and others have
expressed. these are not just some concerns of luxury, but what many believe
as matters of national and personal security.

instead, most of the responses have been poking fun and ridiculing me for
even thinking this way. if the idea is to simply marginalize people with my
thoughts and accuse of them of being the very thing they are trying not to
be (paranoid racists), than that's a pretty sad state of affairs.

we can be very intolerant in our spirit to promote "tolerance."

-Avian


"Craig Welch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:52:53 GMT, "Avian"
wrote:

Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

What utter nonsense. Your 'everyone' is certainly different to my
'everyone'. Thank goodness.

--
Craig

Avian wrote:
I tried to discuss a real concern, that at least and I and others have
expressed. these are not just some concerns of luxury, but what many believe
as matters of national and personal security.

Maybe many, but certainly not "everyone" gets "worried" whem a person
from the mideast boards the plane.


instead, most of the responses have been poking fun and ridiculing me for
even thinking this way. if the idea is to simply marginalize people with my
thoughts and accuse of them of being the very thing they are trying not to
be (paranoid racists),

It is paranoid when you have a fear of people wearing traditional
mideast clothing, when common sense would dictate terrorists would try
to blend in, as they did on 9/11.

This whole thread started due to 4 paranoid flight attendants. There
appeared to be no action by passengers to boycott this flight.
I anxiously await the cabin crew's side of the story about what the men
did that caused them to think they were terrorists.

Avian writes
Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

Like everyone else who has travelled around the Middle East, I've been
on plenty of planes where I was the only non Middle Eastern looking
person. The only thing I was nervous of was the comparatively poor
maintenance standard of some of the aircraft.
--
Simon Elliott
http://www.ctsn.co.uk/

Simon Elliott wrote in message ...
Avian writes
Everyone, whether they openly admit it or not, gets at least slightly
worried if they see a Middle-Eastern looking person on a flight. It's
natural and I don't think there is any racism on that level about it.

Like everyone else who has travelled around the Middle East, I've been
on plenty of planes where I was the only non Middle Eastern looking
person. The only thing I was nervous of was the comparatively poor
maintenance standard of some of the aircraft.

Yeh, maybe not racism - more like xenophobia (fear of foreigners or
strangers).

You don't even need to travel around the Middle East (or insert your
favourite country here) to see people of that culture. Just
live/travel out of a cosmopolitan city that has large multicultural
populations or flight connections to Asia, Middle-East, etc and it is
easy to find yourself seated on a plane full of all sorts of
interesting people.