Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

On 4/04/07 16:55, in article ,
"Hatunen" wrote:

I'd like to see the source for your figures first.

http://www.earthfuture.com/stormyweather/numbers/

The most energy efficient method of traveling is the bicycle.
Even more efficient than walking since the wear and tear on
shoe leather turns out to be expensive.

You've found a bicycle with tires that never wear out?

No. I remember reading this in a Scientific American article.

A bicycle tire turns and last longer that shoe leather since shuffles
and scrapes will cause fast wear.

On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:38:44 +0200, Earl Evleth
wrote:

On 4/04/07 16:55, in article ,
"Hatunen" wrote:

I'd like to see the source for your figures first.

http://www.earthfuture.com/stormyweather/numbers/

The most energy efficient method of traveling is the bicycle.
Even more efficient than walking since the wear and tear on
shoe leather turns out to be expensive.

You've found a bicycle with tires that never wear out?

No. I remember reading this in a Scientific American article.

A bicycle tire turns and last longer that shoe leather since shuffles
and scrapes will cause fast wear.

Especially if you never use the brakes.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Martin schrieb:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:35:46 +0200, Tom Peel wrote:

ocelot schrieb:
Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

At Eurostar being green is important so we've commissioned some
detailed research on the subject. Our findings show that passengers
who fly between London, Paris and Brussels generate ten times more
emissions of the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide (CO2) than travellers
who go by rail.

Yes, but if Eurostar is powered by electricity, and that electricity
comes from a French nuclear power station, how come it produces any CO2
at all?

A good point!
Maybe it is powered by Feelthy(TM) British electricity generated using
sulphurous coal mined by children in South America?
Maybe they go feefty-feefty, feefty percent for youra stinkanda coal,
feefty for mya stinkanda nucleara power, bueno? ca va?
Salvatore, comma here diss guy needa gooda offer he canna refusa

"Deeply Filled Mortician" wrote
in message ...
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:27:29 +0100,
"nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com has scripted:
.....
I didn't like the train journey.

I can't imagine why. I found it very pleasant all the times I did it.

I prefer the baggage handling facilities on an air flight and do not enjoy
the company of uncontrolled and noisy children.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Deeply Filled Mortician" wrote
in message ...
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:27:29 +0100,
"nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com has scripted:
....
I didn't like the train journey.

I can't imagine why. I found it very pleasant all the times I did it.

I prefer the baggage handling facilities on an air flight and do not enjoy
the company of uncontrolled and noisy children.

You enjoy being treated as if you're halfway between a disobedient child and
a deranged suicide bomber?

You enjoy hanging about in a departure area (I refuse to call it a
'lounge'.) for an hour and a half because the security systems are so
inefficient?

You enjoy being patted down by a bored and inefficient security guard while
being watched by heavily armed cops?

You enjoy being limited in the amount of luggage you can take and being
charged punitive amounts of money if you dare transgress that limit(outside
the US anyway)?

My experience with children is that they're just as noisy on an airplane as
anywhere else, and much more prone to tears...

Trains every time for me.

You can get up and walk away from noisy children, nobody every tried to stop
me taking loads of luggage and, so far, nobody with a gun has taken any
interest whatsoever in my activities before boarding a long distance train,
including in India, where the trains do get blown up now and again by
terrorists...


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:55:12 +0100, "William Black"

wrote:


"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
om...

"Deeply Filled Mortician"
wrote
in message ...
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:27:29 +0100,
"nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com has scripted:
....
I didn't like the train journey.

I can't imagine why. I found it very pleasant all the times I did it.

I prefer the baggage handling facilities on an air flight and do not
enjoy
the company of uncontrolled and noisy children.

You enjoy being treated as if you're halfway between a disobedient child
and
a deranged suicide bomber?

You enjoy hanging about in a departure area (I refuse to call it a
'lounge'.) for an hour and a half because the security systems are so
inefficient?

You enjoy being patted down by a bored and inefficient security guard
while
being watched by heavily armed cops?

You enjoy being limited in the amount of luggage you can take and being
charged punitive amounts of money if you dare transgress that
limit(outside
the US anyway)?

My experience with children is that they're just as noisy on an airplane
as
anywhere else, and much more prone to tears...

Trains every time for me.

You can get up and walk away from noisy children, nobody every tried to
stop
me taking loads of luggage and, so far, nobody with a gun has taken any
interest whatsoever in my activities before boarding a long distance
train,
including in India, where the trains do get blown up now and again by
terrorists...

I had a French colleague who thought like you. His carriage was blown up
on a
journey between Paris and Toulouse in the nineteen seventies. He woke up
on the
track and spent a couple of months in hospital afterwards. AFAIR people in
the
next compartment were killed. Trains are just as vulnerable to terrorists
as
planes, better to have stringent security checks and a short flight than
no
security and a long train journey.

This year I took the train from Bombay to Goa, last year I flew.

Last year the plane was four hours late taking off 'Because of fog in
Delhi'. I don't know if you've much experience of the mosquito
concentration areas they call 'air-ports' in India but hanging about in one
for seven hours is pretty close to hell for me and the wife.

This year we took the train.

To be more precise we took an air conditioned private sleeping compartment
on the Konkan Express, complete with leather seats, hanging cupboard,
sink with running water, private attendant, excellent food and an
overnight journey.

The train was cheaper and much more comfortable. The food was an order of
magnitude better with six vegetarian and six non-veg options for dinner,
early morning coffee delivered to the compartment before breakfast and
excellent service all round.

If you're worried about terrorists blowing you up you'd never go anywhere
because you're a damn sight more likely to go under a bus than get blown up.

You're also letting the *******s win because changing your lifestyle because
of terrorism puts the terrorist in charge...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Apr 5, 4:06 am, Martin wrote:
On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:55:12 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:





"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
m...

"Deeply Filled Mortician" wrote
in messagenews:t55713dqeq0bbvo0ai1jgvuj8ojqitafhu@4ax .com...
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 23:27:29 +0100,
"nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname here.uk.com has scripted:
....
I didn't like the train journey.

I can't imagine why. I found it very pleasant all the times I did it.

I prefer the baggage handling facilities on an air flight and do not enjoy
the company of uncontrolled and noisy children.

You enjoy being treated as if you're halfway between a disobedient child and
a deranged suicide bomber?

You enjoy hanging about in a departure area (I refuse to call it a
'lounge'.) for an hour and a half because the security systems are so
inefficient?

You enjoy being patted down by a bored and inefficient security guard while
being watched by heavily armed cops?

You enjoy being limited in the amount of luggage you can take and being
charged punitive amounts of money if you dare transgress that limit(outside
the US anyway)?

My experience with children is that they're just as noisy on an airplane as
anywhere else, and much more prone to tears...

Trains every time for me.

You can get up and walk away from noisy children, nobody every tried to stop
me taking loads of luggage and, so far, nobody with a gun has taken any
interest whatsoever in my activities before boarding a long distance train,
including in India, where the trains do get blown up now and again by
terrorists...

I had a French colleague who thought like you. His carriage was blown up on a
journey between Paris and Toulouse in the nineteen seventies. He woke up on the
track and spent a couple of months in hospital afterwards. AFAIR people in the
next compartment were killed. Trains are just as vulnerable to terrorists as
planes, better to have stringent security checks and a short flight than no
security and a long train journey.


Air travel is the safest form of travel given the distances and number
of people involved - only the crappiest Third World airlines have any
statistically noticeable risks. But trains are also very safe. The
danger of a car or bus accident is much greater than the danger of
terrorism or a crash while traveling by plane or train. The biggest
danger on trains is that you'll get robbed while asleep or distracted.

On Apr 3, 4:08 pm, "Iceman" wrote:
On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote:

"Iceman" wrote in message

I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus.

However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or twice a
year.

Suggestions anyone?

Get a flight from Manchester that stops in an efficient, medium-size
European airport - can you fly SAS through Copenhagen, or Austrian
through Vienna? Lufthansa flies to a couple Indian airports, just
connect through Munich or Dusseldorf instead of Frankfurt if you can
help it.

Or there should be quite a lot of options connecting through the Gulf.

(Having said which, I flew Emirates Dubai-Mumbai a few weeks ago and
it was one of the horridest flights I've ever suffered in terms of
cabin accommodation and service - particularly disappointing as the
airline has such a good rep. I guess that's short-haul for them,
though - maybe the longer routes are better.)

On Apr 5, 9:11 am, Martin wrote:
On 5 Apr 2007 06:59:04 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:
On Apr 5, 4:06 am, Martin wrote:

Air travel is the safest form of travel given the distances and number
of people involved

Number of journeys is a better criteria than distance. The space shuttle is the
safest form of transport by distance, but not for number of passengers carried.


If you have to get from A to B, the safest way is plane. Even if you
don't look at the distances involved, you're probably at greater risk
on your morning commute than on a typical plane trip.

- only the crappiest Third World airlines have any
statistically noticeable risks.

The plane I saw at Rome airport with the top of the fuselage burnt off as the
result of a terrorist's grenade belonged to Pan Am.


One incident doesn't prove anything. You better avoid the London and
Madrid subways, and all buildings in New York. I took a Cambodian
motorcycle taxi once and somehow didn't crash. Therefore Cambodian
motorcycle taxis have a 100% safety rate.

But trains are also very safe. The
danger of a car or bus accident is much greater than the danger of
terrorism or a crash while traveling by plane or train.

It's not just either/or, both are possible.


All kinds of things are possible, but unless you never leave your home
you will always have some risks and it's a matter of being smart about
them. Almost all forms of commercially available transport are
extremely safe statistically except in some of the world's poorest
countries (dodgy airlines, overcrowded ferries, motorcycle taxis,
amphetamine-using bus drivers driving all night on poorly-maintained
mountain roads...)

The biggest
danger on trains is that you'll get robbed while asleep or distracted.

I've never been robbed on a train or anywhere else, except at home.


I've never been robbed either, but robberies on trains are a problem
in parts of Eastern Europe and Asia. In parts of Latin America they
warn you not to take buses at night, since a lot of them get
roadblocked and robbed by bandits. In Mexico City there are a lot of
crimes involving unlicensed taxi drivers, so travelers are told to
only use official taxis. In South Africa travelers are advised to
avoid unlicensed van taxis. You have to know what risks you are
dealing with in each country you travel to.

On 5/04/07 9:55, in article , "William
Black" wrote:

My experience with children is that they're just as noisy on an airplane as
anywhere else, and much more prone to tears...

Depends on the age, babies if they are unhappy are a big problem. Less
that about 2-3 years old are hard to control. It is hell for the parents
since they would like not to cause problems.

Ironically, animals, which many people object to, cause the least problems
if they are not large (cats too).

Our dachs would just go to sleep the whole trip, curled up in a dog ball
in his bag.