Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

On 3 Apr 2007 09:18:55 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 11:13 am, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 08:33:03 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 10:21 am, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Iceman" wrote in message

I wrote:
I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra
traffic now carried by short-haul airlines?

Well, if there was more investment in rails there would be.

At what cost, especially if the amortization is factored in as
part of the rail fare?


Well, better localized mass transit would have massive benefits to
people who wouldn't need cars. As for intercity rail, the investment
required would likely be quite small when compared to the potential
degree of usage.

Well, maybe. But that seems to be more hand waving.

What do you think should be the deciding distance? What is the
definition of short-haul? I've been on the ICE from Munich to
Berlin and at six or seven hours we began to think perhaps we
should have flown after all.

Isn't that going to be a high-speed route very soon? If there is a
3-4 hour train trip, then there shouldn't need to be a flight.

How high speed. The ICE is considered a high-speed train.


Well, at 6-7 hours by train versus a 1 hour flight it can make sense
to fly. At 3-4 hours by train versus a 1 hour flight from airports
well outside the city center with airport security, then it doesn't
make sense to have a flight.

One hour flights are never one hour trips. It's total time in
getting to and from airports, advance check-in time, baggage
retrieval, etc., that needs to be compared to train travel time.
I think a six hour train ride from Munich to Berlin compares more
or less favorably with a flight.


We did fly from Helsinki to Bonn. What would you suggest as the
train route to have taken? (Of course, if Estonia would develop
passenger service to the south we'd be willing to try that.)

That's why I said "domestic" flights. Obviously Lisbon to Athens is
not a doable rail journey for most people.

So by "domestic" you mean within a single European country? or
within the EU?

Within a single European country.

Ah. Well that's a horse of different color. Like calling American
domestic flights those within single states. In general, though,
air traffic in Europe is being treated muuch more like US
domestic flights these days.



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 3 Apr 2007 09:13:12 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 11:08 am, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:52:57 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:

As far as carbondioxide is concerned,
exhalation naturally emits it. Which way conserves nature better: walking
or
running. Man also farts around 300 milliliters of gas per day. In order to
maintain decent digestion we must leak a bit. This should be an excellent
opportunity for tax collection: more energy flows through man's system,
more
he pollutes and pays for the "keep the environment tidy" tax.

On a serious note, cows produce more greenhouse gases than air travel, maybe
we should all be forced to become veggies, and put the cows on a train to
India.

Veggies produce more green house gasses than carnivores.


That's not true at all. Factory farming of beef and pork in
particular is tremendously polluting.

Frankly, I don't see how raising one thousand cows at a central
location results in more total pollution than raising one
thousand cows at one thousand places.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:28:38 +0200, Martin
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:16:30 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

I have to ask: Why is this not "crap" as cited in your previous
post? Please refer to my post pointing out that for most people
"crap" is something they don't agree with.

The article explained how reservoirs generate lots of CO2 in warm climates. You
can probably work it out for yourself if you think about it.

Sure depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it?

But you didn't answer my question: "Why is this not "crap" as
cited in your previous post?"

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:51:24 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert
my surname here.uk.com wrote:


"ocelot" wrote in message
oups.com...
Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

Having used Eurostar once, I intend to fly in future.

From London to Paris. Hm. A lot cheaper to fly, but not time
saving.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:06:09 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
wrote:

and whilst we are at it - the biggest contibution to the human causes of
global warming must be the growing population - we need a plan to reduce the
population by 75%

Where are Josef Stalin and Adolf Hitler when you really need
them?

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Apr 3, 6:51 pm, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my surname
here.uk.com wrote:
"ocelot" wrote in message

ups.com...

Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

Having used Eurostar once, I intend to fly in future.

Colin Bignell

and the reason is .....

On Apr 3, 12:18 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 09:13:12 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:
That's not true at all. Factory farming of beef and pork in
particular is tremendously polluting.

Frankly, I don't see how raising one thousand cows at a central
location results in more total pollution than raising one
thousand cows at one thousand places.


Small-scale livestock raising can usually feed off the local
vegetation without destroying it. Factory farming requires feeding
the cows huge amounts of (usually) corn brought in from elsewhere,
which requires fertilizers, tractors, etc., and shipping the corn.
The waste produced by small-scale livestock raising can usually be
absorbed by the local environment, while factory farming produces
massive waste pools. But it would be impossible to produce anywhere
near the amount of beef which the US does now through free range,
small-scale natural-grass methods, or to produce it as cheaply.
Americans would have to consume far less beef and be willing to pay
much more for each pound they would consume.

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:26:11 +0100, "William Black"

wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
. ..
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Iceman" wrote in message

I'm all in favour of travelling by train, or even bus.

However I have to travel from the North of England to India once or
twice a
year.


Over that distance it is unrealistic to travel any other way besides
plane. But trains should replace most short-distance flights. There
should hardly be any domestic flights anywhere in Western Europe.

I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra
traffic now carried by short-haul airlines?

Price is an issue as well.

Travelling on the train across borders in Europe is an expensive way to
travel compared to low cost air travel.

I can fly to Prague for £40, I can't get to a UK point of exit for France
on a train for that ...

Two weeks ago, it cost my daughter more for a single train ticket from
Stoke on
Trent to Scarborough than for a return flight to Amsterdam from
Manchester.

That's a scary reply.

I travel from Scarborough to Stoke-on-Trent several times a year...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...

Also by the by, this thread is about short-haul flights, not
London-Prague flights. Unless that is a short haul flight, which
is what I'm asking.

Anything in Europe is a short haul flight.

If they're not dishing out the sleep masks and the blankets it's short
haul...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

"William Black" kirjoitti
...

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...

Also by the by, this thread is about short-haul flights, not
London-Prague flights. Unless that is a short haul flight, which
is what I'm asking.

Anything in Europe is a short haul flight.

I guess you knew that distance from Helsinki to Baghdad is shorter than to
Lisbon.