Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:51:24 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert
my surname here.uk.com wrote:


"ocelot" wrote in message
roups.com...
Eurostar generates ten times less CO2 than flying the same routes

Having used Eurostar once, I intend to fly in future.

From London to Paris. Hm. A lot cheaper to fly, but not time
saving.

For me, Gatwick is a lot closer than Ashford International Station.

Colin Bignell

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:37:26 +0200, Martin
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 10:15:33 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

On 3 Apr 2007 09:18:55 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 11:13 am, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 08:33:03 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 10:21 am, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote:
"Iceman" wrote in message

I wrote:
I wonder if the rails have the capacity to carry all the extra
traffic now carried by short-haul airlines?

Well, if there was more investment in rails there would be.

At what cost, especially if the amortization is factored in as
part of the rail fare?


Well, better localized mass transit would have massive benefits to
people who wouldn't need cars. As for intercity rail, the investment
required would likely be quite small when compared to the potential
degree of usage.

Well, maybe. But that seems to be more hand waving.

What do you think should be the deciding distance? What is the
definition of short-haul? I've been on the ICE from Munich to
Berlin and at six or seven hours we began to think perhaps we
should have flown after all.

Isn't that going to be a high-speed route very soon? If there is a
3-4 hour train trip, then there shouldn't need to be a flight.

How high speed. The ICE is considered a high-speed train.


Well, at 6-7 hours by train versus a 1 hour flight it can make sense
to fly. At 3-4 hours by train versus a 1 hour flight from airports
well outside the city center with airport security, then it doesn't
make sense to have a flight.

One hour flights are never one hour trips. It's total time in
getting to and from airports, advance check-in time, baggage
retrieval, etc., that needs to be compared to train travel time.
I think a six hour train ride from Munich to Berlin compares more
or less favorably with a flight.

One hour train journeys also take longer than one hour.

A few minutes longer. But a one hour flight can take four hours.

I can do and have done day trips from A'dam to Milan I can't do that by rail.

Of course you can. That's not the point here.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:35:05 +0200, Martin
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 10:10:56 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:19:59 +0200, Martin
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:10:57 -0700, Hatunen wrote:

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:38:01 +0200, Martin
wrote:

On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 16:26:11 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:


"Hatunen" wrote in message
news:vtr413d5dnecvcc35000u7e9l509m9q86a@4ax. com...
On 3 Apr 2007 08:08:59 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:02 am, "William Black"
wrote:
Two weeks ago, it cost my daughter more for a single train ticket from Stoke on
Trent to Scarborough than for a return flight to Amsterdam from Manchester.

So long as you are comparing apples and apples the comparison
would be fair. But there's a tendency to cite costs of an advance
air fare against the cost of not-so advance rail fares.

This was the cheapest train fare for the route available it's more than the
average airfare from Manchester to A'dam.

I suspect using UK rail fares for this is probably apples and
oranges. I see that trip requires a change of trains and train
companies.

and ? Even the trip from Manchester to Scarborough costs more than from
Manchester to A'dam by air.

If you believe what *you* read in the press, UK railways have the highest
average charge per mile in Europe, based on how many miles you can travel for
GBP10.

Tht's what I meant by "I suspect using UK rail fares for this is
probably apples and oranges."


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 3 Apr 2007 10:38:49 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 12:18 pm, Hatunen wrote:
On 3 Apr 2007 09:13:12 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:
That's not true at all. Factory farming of beef and pork in
particular is tremendously polluting.

Frankly, I don't see how raising one thousand cows at a central
location results in more total pollution than raising one
thousand cows at one thousand places.


Small-scale livestock raising can usually feed off the local
vegetation without destroying it. Factory farming requires feeding
the cows huge amounts of (usually) corn brought in from elsewhere,
which requires fertilizers, tractors, etc., and shipping the corn.

That still doesn't actually answer the question as far as
pollution goes.

The waste produced by small-scale livestock raising can usually be
absorbed by the local environment, while factory farming produces
massive waste pools.

That doesn't mean that there is more rtotla pollution; it jsut
means that small scale framing can hide it bettter.

But it would be impossible to produce anywhere
near the amount of beef which the US does now through free range,
small-scale natural-grass methods, or to produce it as cheaply.
Americans would have to consume far less beef and be willing to pay
much more for each pound they would consume.

That would reduce pollution in either case.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:56:22 +0200, Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote:

Both Iran and Pakistan welcome visitors, but suspect the passage would
be hard and hazardous. Not one for the faint hearted.

At this moment, Brits might not be so welcome in Iran.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote:
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:06:09 +0100, "Miss
L. Toe" has scripted:

and whilst we are at it - the biggest contibution to the human causes of
global warming must be the growing population - we need a plan to reduce the
population by 75%

Countries like Italy and Japan are suffering greatly from their
attempts at breeding less.


It's not a national policy - most governments with very low birthrates
want to raise them, and in the case of Italy and Japan have so far
been unsuccessful.

Various factors contribute to low birth rates in countries like Italy
and Japan - people staying single longer and marrying later, much
increased cost of raising children, career women finding it difficult
to have a child without giving up their careers and being unwilling to
do so, difficulty of finding child care and decent schools,
preferences for smaller family sizes among women who do want children.

Iceman wrote:

On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote:
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:06:09 +0100, "Miss
L. Toe" has scripted:

and whilst we are at it - the biggest contibution to the human causes
of
global warming must be the growing population - we need a plan to
reduce the
population by 75%

Countries like Italy and Japan are suffering greatly from their
attempts at breeding less.


It's not a national policy - most governments with very low birthrates
want to raise them, and in the case of Italy and Japan have so far
been unsuccessful.

Various factors contribute to low birth rates in countries like Italy
and Japan - people staying single longer and marrying later, much
increased cost of raising children, career women finding it difficult
to have a child without giving up their careers and being unwilling to
do so, difficulty of finding child care and decent schools,
preferences for smaller family sizes among women who do want children.


Well, in Japan's case they don't want any muzlim scum coming in and
infesting the place and breeding like rabbits. An example that Europe
would be wise to follow...

--
Best
Greg

On Apr 3, 4:59 pm, Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote:
Make credence recognised that on Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:06:09 +0100, "Miss
L. Toe" has scripted:

and whilst we are at it - the biggest contibution to the human causes of
global warming must be the growing population - we need a plan to reduce the
population by 75%

Countries like Italy and Japan are suffering greatly from their
attempts at breeding less.


It's not a national policy - most governments with very low birthrates
want to raise them, and in the case of Italy and Japan have so far
been unsuccessful.

Various factors contribute to low birth rates in countries like Italy
and Japan - people staying single longer and marrying later, much
increased cost of raising children, career women finding it difficult
to have a child without giving up their careers and being unwilling to
do so, difficulty of finding child care and decent schools,
preferences for smaller family sizes among women who do want children.

On Apr 4, 12:52 am, Hatunen wrote:
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:56:22 +0200, Deeply Filled Mortician

wrote:
Both Iran and Pakistan welcome visitors, but suspect the passage would
be hard and hazardous. Not one for the faint hearted.

At this moment, Brits might not be so welcome in Iran.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

It depends on how many camels they are worth.....

"Hatunen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 22:56:22 +0200, Deeply Filled Mortician
wrote:

Both Iran and Pakistan welcome visitors, but suspect the passage would
be hard and hazardous. Not one for the faint hearted.

At this moment, Brits might not be so welcome in Iran.

This being travel group an all...

The FCO warning page doesn't say 'Don't go to Iran' yet...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.