"Mother, may I?"

Martin D. Pay wrote:
On 18 Oct 2006 01:36:39 -0700, "-L."
mangled uncounted electrons thus:


DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!

Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too? Bush and his
asshole cronies will erode every single personal freedom we have until
we have none whatsoever.

To quote Ben Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Damn right. We have a similar problem in the UK, with the
National Identity Card Scheme that's about to be foisted on us.
Which is why I'm going to forgo international travel from 2008,
when my passport expires, as I refuse to renew it if the price is
a compulsory ID card as well.

Martin D. Pay
Uncle Joe would have loved the ways we're devising of monitoring
our citizens 'for the common good'. (There is no practical
difference between a right-wing totalitarian regime and a
left-wing totalitarian regime except the excuses they use.)

I don't get the wild resistance to a national ID card. In the US
everyone has a Social Security Number. I live in Thailand. Everyone
citizen over 14 is required to have his national ID card on his person
at all times. So what? I have my driver's license on me at all times.
How does that hurt me or interfere with any of my freedoms?

On 18 Oct 2006 17:44:24 -0700, "Tchiowa"
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

Martin D. Pay wrote:

snip

Uncle Joe would have loved the ways we're devising of monitoring
our citizens 'for the common good'. (There is no practical
difference between a right-wing totalitarian regime and a
left-wing totalitarian regime except the excuses they use.)

I don't get the wild resistance to a national ID card. In the US
everyone has a Social Security Number. I live in Thailand. Everyone
citizen over 14 is required to have his national ID card on his person
at all times. So what? I have my driver's license on me at all times.
How does that hurt me or interfere with any of my freedoms?

It doesn't, if you don't mind doing it. I simply don't trust the
UK government to keep my personal data secure, nor do I trust
'chipped' systems to be secure from remote chip readers. The
technology to do this may or may not exist yet in a practical
form, but you can be sure that the crooks will get one step ahead
of the security protocols at some point. And we'll all be playing
catch-up from then on...

Martin D. Pay
The UK has *never* been a "Show me your papers!" society, and an
awful lot of us would like to keep it that way...

Martin D. Pay wrote:

The UK has *never* been a "Show me your papers!" society, and an
awful lot of us would like to keep it that way...

Never?
Just today, while searching through the safe where family papers are
stored, I came across my old National Identity Card.

Martin D. Pay wrote:
On 18 Oct 2006 17:44:24 -0700, "Tchiowa"
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

Martin D. Pay wrote:

snip

Uncle Joe would have loved the ways we're devising of monitoring
our citizens 'for the common good'. (There is no practical
difference between a right-wing totalitarian regime and a
left-wing totalitarian regime except the excuses they use.)

I don't get the wild resistance to a national ID card. In the US
everyone has a Social Security Number. I live in Thailand. Everyone
citizen over 14 is required to have his national ID card on his person
at all times. So what? I have my driver's license on me at all times.
How does that hurt me or interfere with any of my freedoms?

It doesn't, if you don't mind doing it. I simply don't trust the
UK government to keep my personal data secure,

Well, neither do I. But the fact is that they have it with or without
ID cards.

nor do I trust 'chipped' systems to be secure from remote chip readers.

I agree that this is rather worrisome. I wouldn't want data on the chip
beyond the basics of who I am.

I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the debate in
the US about illegal immigration and employing illegals. No ID card, no
job. Anyone employing someone without an ID goes to jail for it.

The
technology to do this may or may not exist yet in a practical
form, but you can be sure that the crooks will get one step ahead
of the security protocols at some point. And we'll all be playing
catch-up from then on...

Unfortunately you're right.

Tchiowa wrote:
-----snip--------
I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the debate in
the US about illegal immigration and employing illegals. No ID card, no
job. Anyone employing someone without an ID goes to jail for it.
-----snip--------

This already exists. At least, in the State of Illinois, to get
employment in a state or state-related job, you must show an SS card
plus either a birth certificate or passport.

JimL wrote:

Tchiowa wrote:
-----snip--------

I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the debate in
the US about illegal immigration and employing illegals. No ID card, no
job. Anyone employing someone without an ID goes to jail for it.
-----snip--------


This already exists. At least, in the State of Illinois, to get
employment in a state or state-related job, you must show an SS card
plus either a birth certificate or passport.


So an alien with a work visa cannot be employed in Illinois. I really
really do not believe you.

Unless, of course, you simply did not mean US passport and a Mexican or
Bulgarian one or the appropriate birth certificate from Villahermosa or
Russe would suffice. I suppose that in the later case they would also
want some form of visa permitting work in the US. Perhaps a student
visa if the state-related job were on campus.

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
JimL wrote:

Tchiowa wrote:
-----snip--------

I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the
debate in the US about illegal immigration and employing
illegals. No ID card, no job. Anyone employing someone without an
ID goes to jail for it. -----snip--------


This already exists. At least, in the State of Illinois, to get
employment in a state or state-related job, you must show an SS card
plus either a birth certificate or passport.


So an alien with a work visa cannot be employed in Illinois. I really
really do not believe you.

Unless, of course, you simply did not mean US passport and a Mexican
or Bulgarian one or the appropriate birth certificate from
Villahermosa or Russe would suffice. I suppose that in the later
case they would also want some form of visa permitting work in the
US. Perhaps a student visa if the state-related job were on campus.

Aliens with permission to work have a SS card, and of course they have a
passport. It contains their visa.

--
ant
Don't try to email me;
I'm borrowing the spammer du jour's addy

Tchiowa wrote:
Martin D. Pay wrote:
On 18 Oct 2006 01:36:39 -0700, "-L."
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

DevilsPGD wrote:
Sounds perfectly reasonable. To do any less would be to let the
terrorists win!
Oh FFS! Do you bend over and take it up the ass too? Bush and his
asshole cronies will erode every single personal freedom we have until
we have none whatsoever.

To quote Ben Franklin:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Damn right. We have a similar problem in the UK, with the
National Identity Card Scheme that's about to be foisted on us.
Which is why I'm going to forgo international travel from 2008,
when my passport expires, as I refuse to renew it if the price is
a compulsory ID card as well.

Martin D. Pay
Uncle Joe would have loved the ways we're devising of monitoring
our citizens 'for the common good'. (There is no practical
difference between a right-wing totalitarian regime and a
left-wing totalitarian regime except the excuses they use.)

I don't get the wild resistance to a national ID card. In the US
everyone has a Social Security Number. I live in Thailand. Everyone
citizen over 14 is required to have his national ID card on his person
at all times. So what? I have my driver's license on me at all times.
How does that hurt me or interfere with any of my freedoms?


There is a difference - quite a big difference - between a driver's
license and the kind of biometric ID card that's on the table in the UK.

And that's without getting into my absolute loathing of the idea of
"your papers, please" - something we do not and should not have in Britain.

--

Stephen

I don't care if it's an orgy of death, there's still such a thing as a
napkin.

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
JimL wrote:

Tchiowa wrote:
-----snip--------

I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the debate in
the US about illegal immigration and employing illegals. No ID card, no
job. Anyone employing someone without an ID goes to jail for it.
-----snip--------


This already exists. At least, in the State of Illinois, to get
employment in a state or state-related job, you must show an SS card
plus either a birth certificate or passport.


So an alien with a work visa cannot be employed in Illinois. I really
really do not believe you.

IIUC the law says that to work you have to have a Social Security card
to that the tax can be deducted and credited to you. Even if you're an
alien.

Unless, of course, you simply did not mean US passport and a Mexican or
Bulgarian one or the appropriate birth certificate from Villahermosa or
Russe would suffice. I suppose that in the later case they would also
want some form of visa permitting work in the US. Perhaps a student
visa if the state-related job were on campus.

Tchiowa wrote:
Frank F. Matthews wrote:

JimL wrote:


Tchiowa wrote:
-----snip--------


I also think that a national ID card is a good way to end the debate in
the US about illegal immigration and employing illegals. No ID card, no
job. Anyone employing someone without an ID goes to jail for it.
-----snip--------


This already exists. At least, in the State of Illinois, to get
employment in a state or state-related job, you must show an SS card
plus either a birth certificate or passport.


So an alien with a work visa cannot be employed in Illinois. I really
really do not believe you.


IIUC the law says that to work you have to have a Social Security card
to that the tax can be deducted and credited to you. Even if you're an
alien.

OK.. But there is no requirement to be a citizen to get one.