Report from the US, a nice but somewhat backward country.

Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

Your description doesn't compute. With 'shelf' do you mean a moving,
probably metal, plate in the 'output pipe' (don't know the right term
for the latter? Or do you mean the bottom of a US-style toilet, but
without the few gallons of water, i.e. the 'shelf' is not a seperate
component, but just the bottom of the ceramic toilet?

This website describes it, with pictures:

http://www.alldownunder.com/oz-k/rea...an-toilets.htm

You probably mean another page or a subpage, because that page doesn't
contain the quote you give. Perhaps you browsed and the address bar
didn't change? (That happens on some pages.)

Quote:

"Not so the German toilet. The excrement lands on a bone-dry horizontal
shelf, mere inches beneath one's posterior. Repeated flushings are
required to slide the ordure off the shelf into a small water-filled
hole, from which it hopefully disappears. See?"

I still don't understand it! The "shelf" is a little hollow, not flat.
Do the Germans use special water which magically flows *up*hill?

So the bottom :-) line question is: Is there water on top of the
"shelf"? If not, *why* not?

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

John Kulp wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:09:48 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:


Which is exactly why we exclude it here, keeping our taxes much lower
than yours by constantly pointing out how much of the total price it
is.

Well, your *product* (i.e. sales, VAT, whatever) taxes are not that
much lower. You are probably thinking about income tax, social
securrity, etc..

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%. In Sweden,
they are something like 25%. According to a search I did, the general
VAT in The Netherlands is 19%. Just how is that not much different
from ours?

I'm confused! When you're talking about "ours" are you talking about
the US or Canada? *I* am obviously talking about the US and specifically
about California (and a little about Nevada).

The US in general. California is just another socialist state, which,
btw, is drowning in debt in spite of its ridiculous taxes.


I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention. The
*second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%! The *third*, a motel bill, is
12%. Doesn't really stimulate me to look any further, does it? And I
know for sure that in San Francisco we paid 14% on the motel bill. What
I remember was mostly around 12%, hence my comment ("not that much
lower").

See above. If California is your only standard, then you are right.


So either there's some confusion somewhere, or that "constantly
pointing out how much of the total price it [the tax] is", isn't really
working, is it?

On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:24:08 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Reposted. Please don't cut the newsgroups (without saying so).]

pltrgyst wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%....

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention.

The US generally has state sales taxes. The California state sales tax is 7.25%.

On top of this, you may have smaller district, county, or city sales taxes
(generally less than 1%). The total of all sales taxes may indeed range as high
as 8.5%.

The *second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%!

Many cities have special restaurant taxes in addition to the general sales tax.

The *third*, a motel bill, is 12%.

Most cities have special occupancy taxes for hotels in addition to the general
sales tax.

Thanks! So the *total* *tax* is indeed often much higher than what
John said. That was my point. I already knew that *sales* tax wasn't the
only tax, that why I *started* by saying "your *product* (i.e. sales,
VAT, whatever) taxes", i.e. *any* tax which is added to the listed/
advertized price.

No, its not often, it's rare and restricted to taxes like the hotel
tax, the object being to stick tourists like you who can't vote in the
state so they can get away with it.

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
.home.nl...
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
Frank Slootweg wrote:

It's North America, but if the information is uninteresting, feel free
to ignore it.

I think the Canucks (sp?) would probably take offense at the "North
America" classification! :-)

Not at all. "North America" is merely a geographical designation. Their
trade and economies are very closely linked in many ways, including
their cellphone services.

Tough crowd, this is! I'm just echoing what Canucks have repeatedly
said (mostly in rta+n) and I *did* add a smiley, i.e. it was tongue in
cheek.

Bull****. You were called on your bull**** and you are now trying to weasel
out from what you said.

"Mike O'Sullivan" wrote in message
...
John Kulp wrote:
The Dutch should talk. I have never seen so many different types of
toilets as I have in The Netherlands. You think you're turning on the
light and the toilet flushes.

Their toilets are strange. When you take a crap, the turds sit on a sort
of shelf, so you can contemplate it for a couple of minutes before
flushing. (BTW, Flushing is in Holland too)

Ah, there's a whole bunch of Dutch **** in and around New York. Figures.
They actually HAVE flush toilets in the Netherlands? I thought
that they used chamber pots which they then emptied into the canals.

"Alan S" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:50:32 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Disclaimer: I can't believe I'm actually reading/writing this stuff!
:-)]

Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
John Kulp wrote:

The Dutch should talk. I have never seen so many different types of
toilets as I have in The Netherlands. You think you're turning on the
light and the toilet flushes.

Their toilets are strange. When you take a crap, the turds sit on a sort
of shelf, so you can contemplate it for a couple of minutes before
flushing. (BTW, Flushing is in Holland too)

Your description doesn't compute. With 'shelf' do you mean a moving,
probably metal, plate in the 'output pipe' (don't know the right term
for the latter? Or do you mean the bottom of a US-style toilet, but
without the few gallons of water, i.e. the 'shelf' is not a seperate
component, but just the bottom of the ceramic toilet?

I found them to be common in parts of Germany and parts of
the Nederlands near the German border.

This guy describes it in detail:
http://www.asecular.com/~scott/misc/toilet.htm

I had the same aversion to that design as he did. I presume
they were designed to allow some anally-obsessed people to
check stools for health purposes on a daily basis.

If the former, then those kind of toilets are *not* common in The
Netherlands, i.e. there might be some in some places, but they would be
an exception.

As to strange, *we* find having them float around in a few gallons of
water both strange and disgusting!

The American system of the bernoulli suction effect was
equally strange to us, with their high waterline and an
unfortunate tendency to block easily. Again, someone else
has described it better than I could:

The regular toilets in N.A., until they downsized their capacity, rarely
clog. The effing p.c. ones, with only 6 litre capacity,
are the total ****s, no pun intended. They clog up very easily, requiring
many litres to unclog them. So, to save water, in the end, the water
conserving ones actually USE more water. Typical LIEbrawl politically
correct logic, I guess!




http://www.alldownunder.com/oz-k/rea...an-toilets.htm

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com
Latest: Two Indian Hotels: to Sleep, Perchance...

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 22:24:08 +0100, Frank Slootweg
wrote:

[Reposted. Please don't cut the newsgroups (without saying so).]

pltrgyst wrote:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:10:37 +0100, Frank Slootweg

wrote:

John Kulp wrote:

Excuse me? Our sales taxes range from zero to around 8%....

I just took the stack of receipts we have. The *very first*, a toy
car, is already 8.5%, i.e. already *above* the maximum you mention.

The US generally has state sales taxes. The California state sales tax
is 7.25%.

On top of this, you may have smaller district, county, or city sales
taxes
(generally less than 1%). The total of all sales taxes may indeed range
as high
as 8.5%.

The *second* one, a meal, is already 12.3%!

Many cities have special restaurant taxes in addition to the general
sales tax.

The *third*, a motel bill, is 12%.

Most cities have special occupancy taxes for hotels in addition to the
general
sales tax.

Thanks! So the *total* *tax* is indeed often much higher than what
John said. That was my point. I already knew that *sales* tax wasn't the
only tax, that why I *started* by saying "your *product* (i.e. sales,
VAT, whatever) taxes", i.e. *any* tax which is added to the listed/
advertized price.

No, its not often, it's rare and restricted to taxes like the hotel
tax, the object being to stick tourists like you who can't vote in the
state so they can get away with it.

An excellent idea, I say!

"Frank Slootweg" wrote in message
.home.nl...
pltrgyst wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:48:49 GMT, "Sharx35" wrote:

Well, I have travelled in the U.S., too. After several dozen trips to
the U.S.,
**MY** bad experiences are a fraction of yours. I suspect it might be
due to
your arrogant Eurocentric, obviously chip on the shoulder attitude to
U.S.
culture. I am not a U.S. resident nor a U.S. citizen, however I much
prefer
to travel in the U.S., compared to the continent of Europe where the
common
attitude is that "WE are the centre of the cultural universe
and the rest of the world are wannabes or boors". :Hell will freeze over
before I travel to the continent of decay, Europe.

Well, I'm pretty sure that at least 99% of us here in the US would rather
have
Frank visit than you.

I'm not quite sure if that was a compliment or not! Afterall, all is
relative, isn't it? :-) I.e. something like "I would rather have a
broken leg than a missing eye!". :-)

Close. Schizekopf.

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:11:29 GMT, "Sharx35"
wrote:


(Without looking them up,) Most of the places you mention don't ring a
bell. To be clear, we visited only California (and a tiny bit (Pahrump)
of Nevada) and only a *part* of CA (see above).


It's obvious how low Colorado has sunk when one examines the results of
the
Nov./08 election.



Not as low as Canada which allows foul-mouthed cretins like you
around.

Sad to say but, legally speaking, freedom of speech/expression is much
better protected in the U.S. than here in Canada. In the U.S.,
truth is a defense, here in Canada, not necessarily so.

This is now off-topic for both newsgroups, but in the hope of ending
the subthread quickly...

Mike O'Sullivan:
"Not so the German toilet. The excrement lands on a bone-dry horizontal
shelf, mere inches beneath one's posterior. Repeated flushings are
required to slide the ordure off the shelf ..."

Frank Slootweg:
I still don't understand it! The "shelf" is a little hollow, not flat.
Do the Germans use special water which magically flows *up*hill?

When you flush, the flush water is dumped onto the "shelf", moving
fast enough to overcome the slight slope of the hollow and wash it
(hopefully) clean.

So the bottom :-) line question is: Is there water on top of the
"shelf"?

No, only when you flush.

If not, *why* not?

What I've read is: so that dirty water won't splash up when the next
chunk falls in, as it can in the design the rest of us are used to.
--
Mark Brader | "When I was 10 years old, all I gave my sweetheart was
Toronto | a pair of projections that turned the group of rotations
| in 4 dimensions into principal bundles over the 3-sphere."
| -- Yann (Greg Egan: "Schild's Ladder")