Times: Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion

Times (London)
November 09, 2004

Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
From Adam LeBor in Budapest

BUDAPEST¹S historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and
conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless
against the latest invaders: property developers.


Map:
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/pic...,158839,00.jpg


The combination of high housing density and a booming property market has
triggered a controversial wave of demolitions. Art Nouveau buildings and
tree-lined courtyards are being razed to make way for modern residential and
office blocks. Empty plots mar the historic streets and squares of Elizabeth
Town, as the area is known.

Local activists have launched Ovas (Hungarian for ³protect²), a campaign to
save the area. Peter Marinov, its spokesman, told The Times: ³Budapest¹s
Jewish quarter is a unique part of Europe¹s heritage. It is rich in
religious and cultural roots, and architecturally unique. It is the only
surviving Jewish quarter that dates from the 19th century.²

Istvan Fenyo, 75, grew up at 29 Wesselenyi Street in Elizabeth Town, and
survived the wartime ghetto. He said: ³This whole area brought
multiethnicity and colour to Budapest. This was a very diverse Jewish
quarter, and it helped to shape the city¹s landscape.² The Jewish quarter
was fenced and turned into a ghetto after the Nazis invaded in March 1944.
Budapest is still home to one of Europe¹s biggest Jewish communities, about
80,000 strong, and many still live in the heart of District VII, the last of
Eastern Europe¹s Jewish quarters still to boast a substantial Jewish
community.

Developers and municipal officials say that they have no choice. Many
apartments have not been repaired since before the Second World War and
would eventually collapse.

Ovas has already scored a significant victory. It applied for a temporary
preservation order on the whole quarter, which was granted in June. The
Jewish quarter is now designated a cultural heritage area and no new
demolitions can take place unless they were already agreed before June.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...350517,00.html

On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said:

Times (London)
November 09, 2004
Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
From Adam LeBor in Budapest

BUDAPEST¹S historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and
conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless
against the latest invaders: property developers.

Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses
while the inhabitants only have moments to flee.

Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that.

J;

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Jeremy Henderson wrote:

On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said:

Times (London)
November 09, 2004
Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
From Adam LeBor in Budapest

BUDAPEST¹S historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and
conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless
against the latest invaders: property developers.

Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses
while the inhabitants only have moments to flee.

Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that.

Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied
territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

On 2004-11-09 21:12:47 +0100, Padraig Breathnach said:

Jeremy Henderson wrote:

On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said:

Times (London)
November 09, 2004
Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
From Adam LeBor in Budapest

BUDAPEST¹S historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and
conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless
against the latest invaders: property developers.

Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses
while the inhabitants only have moments to flee.

Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that.

Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied
territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel.

Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a
suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow
worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond
out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no.

And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories -
how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian
Christian community in Jerusalem?

Maybe I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but what happened in
the 1930's and 40's happened. I'm not responsible for it.

J;
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On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:19:00 +0100, Jeremy Henderson
wrote:

On 2004-11-09 21:12:47 +0100, Padraig Breathnach said:

Jeremy Henderson wrote:

On 2004-11-09 19:05:46 +0100, Sufaud said:

Times (London)
November 09, 2004
Budapest's Jewish quarter fights a new invasion
From Adam LeBor in Budapest

BUDAPEST¹S historic Jewish quarter has survived wars, revolutions and
conquest. Now much of its architectural heritage is proving defenceless
against the latest invaders: property developers.

Could be worse - could be bulldozers coming and tearing down the houses
while the inhabitants only have moments to flee.

Oh, sorry, I forgot - it's just the Israelis who do that.

Please, Jeremy! While I deplore the actions of the IDF in the occupied
territories, I wish people would not identify all Jews with Israel.

Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a
suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow
worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond
out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no.

And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories -
how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian
Christian community in Jerusalem?

Maybe I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, but what happened in
the 1930's and 40's happened. I'm not responsible for it.

I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that
everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the
whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either
forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were
occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely
forgotten.

In addition, it seems that many people who ask "Could it happen
again?" assume that means in Europe, to the Jews, and in a highly
organised fashion. Of course it could happen again, and it has, and it
is, but people can't see the forest for the trees.
---
DFM

Jeremy Henderson wrote in message ...

Agreed, but my observation is this: there seems to me to be a
suggestion that the destruction of an old part of Budapest is somehow
worse because it's the Jewish quarter, and that people should respond
out of a sense of guilt about the history of that area. Sorry, but no.

It is not "guilt" at all -- I don't think most Hungarians feel such
guilt. Rather it is realism: Jews who want to see the lost history of
the Jews, as documented in Roman Vishniac's wonderful photos flock to
the old European centers of Jewry and spend tourist dollars. So do
Germans, some of whom may actually have read Bernt Engelmann's book
"Germany Without Jews" and regret the loss.

If you go, say, to Bialystok, Poland, once a thriving center of Jewry
(and the source of the bialy bread roll, now found mainly in Brooklyn)
you will see firsthand what it means to bulldoze a (former) Jewish
community, concrete over it, and make it a culture-less "Socialist
paradise".

In London, there is irony that some 1960s buildings (including Clore
House, 17 Russell Square) have been given protected status. Because
they are, in general, so ugly that they are in danger of demolition --
but they represent an era and we, as people, have the right to our
past.


And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories -
how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian
Christian community in Jerusalem?

Huh? Christians are leaving the Middle East and changing the
demographics of Palestine and Lebanon, and probably other places as
well. But you seem to have another agenda. Turkey was nasty to its
Christians forever, and particularly vicious in its expulsion of
ethnic Greeks. And Greece has reciprocated; indeed Greeks have
reciprocated, bringing on the Cyprus tragedy. But this isn't a history
site, it's a discussion place for European tourism. If you want to get
into polemic, go to soc.culture.greek where you can blow off all the
steam you want. It's best to use an anonymizer though, or some Greek
may come to your home and blow you up.

Deep Frayed Morgues wrote in message . ..

I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that
everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the
whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either
forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were
occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely
forgotten.

Actually the issue is even more sensitive when it concerns indigenous
peoples. The whole issue of lost civilizations (and lost languages,
lost cultures) is indeed sensitive in Europe, as elsewhere. For one
thing, modern consumer society is attractive, and the tug between the
old culture (and preserving it) and the new economy is very strong. In
the USA, the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to prevent Native
American babies from being adopted out of the tribe "in the interest
of the child". In other words: the society (or culture) of origin has
rights too.

Where all (or most of) the members of a group have been killed, and
not simply elected to abandon the culture, the issue takes on further
sensitivity.

As for Jews: the fact that many survivors have done well economically
and wish to recapture, or at least see, their historical culture; the
fact that so many are articulate and politically aware, makes them
"noisy". In their own way, Armenians, Muslims, Blacks and other
self-defined groups do the same. To the extent that they are able.

You're not going to resolve this with a sound bite. A bit of Googling
on European "minority cultures" would tell you a lot more that's
useful.

In parts of Europe, the issue is cultural history and environmental
preservation vs. corruption. Just as George W. Bush's constituency is
happy to steamroll the environment of the spotted owl and to tar over
all of Alaska to get at a few barrels of oil, there are corrupt
politicians in Europe who will commit the same or similar crimes.

Deep Frayed Morgues wrote in message . ..

I certainly here your point of view on this one. It does seem that
everytime something negative happens to anything or anyone Jewish, the
whole holocaust thing is immediately dragged out again. People either
forget, or don't know, that many similar attrocities, some worse, were
occuring around the same time in history, and they have been largely
forgotten.

Actually the issue is even more sensitive when it concerns indigenous
peoples. The whole issue of lost civilizations (and lost languages,
lost cultures) is indeed sensitive in Europe, as elsewhere. For one
thing, modern consumer society is attractive, and the tug between the
old culture (and preserving it) and the new economy is very strong. In
the USA, the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted to prevent Native
American babies from being adopted out of the tribe "in the interest
of the child". In other words: the society (or culture) of origin has
rights too.

Where all (or most of) the members of a group have been killed, and
not simply elected to abandon the culture, the issue takes on further
sensitivity.

As for Jews: the fact that many survivors have done well economically
and wish to recapture, or at least see, their historical culture; the
fact that so many are articulate and politically aware, makes them
"noisy". In their own way, Armenians, Muslims, Blacks and other
self-defined groups do the same. To the extent that they are able.

You're not going to resolve this with a sound bite. A bit of Googling
on European "minority cultures" would tell you a lot more that's
useful.

In parts of Europe, the issue is cultural history and environmental
preservation vs. corruption. Just as George W. Bush's constituency is
happy to steamroll the environment of the spotted owl and to tar over
all of Alaska to get at a few barrels of oil, there are corrupt
politicians in Europe who will commit the same or similar crimes.

On 2004-11-10 09:25:59 +0100, (Sufaud) said:

Jeremy Henderson wrote in message
...

And by the way, I'm not just referring to the occupied territories -
how many Jews are shedding a tear for, to take an example, the Armenian
Christian community in Jerusalem?

Huh? Christians are leaving the Middle East and changing the
demographics of Palestine and Lebanon, and probably other places as
well.

True, but in the specific example I mentioned they are being helped
along their way by the survivors of Adolf's ethnic cleansing, who
should know better. An interesting account of this, and travels in the
region, is given in William Dalrymple's book.

But you seem to have another agenda.

Do I? What is it?

It's best to use an anonymizer though, or some Greek
may come to your home and blow you up.

Too late - my wife is Greek, so the Greeks already have their revenge :-)

J;


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