Smoking Restrictions in Europe

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:40:41 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:

"vmkng3" wrote:

I am wandering what others feel on this issue?

Some mind; some don't.

Very few people who post in threads such as this are temperate. Let's
sit back and enjoy the row.

Can't we jsut reprint one of the previous very long threads on
this subject? It would save everybody repeating themselves.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

This, unfortunately, is the uneducated and self-centred attitude of a lot of
people here is Europe. Your freedom ends when it infringes on other people's
freedom. Your rights do not include the right to harm others, and that's
just what smoking is. Whether it's long term health damage, or just having
to go home and wash their clothes from 1 night in a stinky pub.

We are far behind North America in terms of getting rid of smoking. It will
still take years to catch up, but I believe we will do it.


"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...

"Malcolm Stewart" schreef in
bericht ...
"vmkng3" wrote in message
...
Hello, fellow travelers:

We just came from trip to Europe, and our biggest disappointment is
that
while in Europe we have had constantly endanger our health by
breathing
second hand smoke because smoking in Europe is widespread and
unrestricted.
snip
Do not Europeans understand that second hand smoke is dangerous?

Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health. However,
Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we can and can
not
do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody. Live and let live.

Sjoerd (non-smoker)

"Sjoerd" wrote in message
...

"Malcolm Stewart" schreef in
bericht ...
"vmkng3" wrote in message
...
Hello, fellow travelers:

We just came from trip to Europe, and our biggest disappointment is
that
while in Europe we have had constantly endanger our health by
breathing
second hand smoke because smoking in Europe is widespread and
unrestricted.
snip
Do not Europeans understand that second hand smoke is dangerous?

Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health. However,
Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we can and can
not
do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody. Live and let live.

Sjoerd (non-smoker)

Utter bull****! Europe is extremely backward in this regard - about time
you and the EU woke up to themselves - what about the right of others to
breathe clean air! You may call yourself a non-smoker but you breathe in
heaps of second hand smoke which is very dangerous.

David Bennetts
Australia

"Casey" wrote in message
k.net...
... There
are many studies showing that breathing second-hand smoke for
an extended period is definitely detrimental to good health.

There are also studies that show it has absolutely no effect whatsoever. I
am always deeply suspicious of studies that 'show' something is or is not
harmful to health. I can, for example, choose from different studies to show
that eating chocolate, consuming salt or drinking red wine are both good for
me and bad for me.

While a few are indisputable, a lot of the conclusions depend on detailed
and important sub-clauses, defining the conditions of the study, which never
get mentioned when people quote them. On issues like smoking, the studies
are usually carried out by parties with a strong interest in one side or the
other of an argument and, unsurprisingly, the ones they publish are the ones
that support their viewpoint.

For the record, I am a non-smoker.

Colin Bignell

"vmkng3" wrote in message
...
....
Being from Canada, and non-smokers, we really enjoy the clean air and
smoke-free environment we have here thanks to our smoke-control
regulations.

Being from a country that has few smokers, have you considered the
possibility that you may find even a fairly small number of smokers more
noticable than the locals do? I have place in France, which I visit quite
frequently, but, while France is often claimed to be a bastion of smokers, I
don't recall seeing many people smoking, except in a few bars.

Do not Europeans understand that second hand smoke is dangerous?

The most recent report published in Britain, probably one of the most
anti-smoking countries in Europe, are that there is no evidence to support
that claim.

Our desire to avoid endangering our health with second smoke may be the
reason we are very hesitant to travel to Europe again until they introduce
some reasonable smoking restrictions.

The existing ones are reasonable, by the standards of the people who live
there.

BTW I am a non-smoker.

Colin Bignell

Sjoerd wrote:

Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health. However,
Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we can and can not
do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody. Live and let live.

Your typical dutch liberalism and easiness really (if you#ll ecuse
the expression) seems to really step on the nerves of some of the dogged
addicts of principles here.

The North American culture (?) and attire seems to be based pretty much on
dogma and due to a mostly rather low historical and international
awareness some people tend to forget that truth is a quantity dependent on
time and place.

My experience showed me that there are pretty other truths in North
America, Africa, Asia or elsewhere than in Europe. If you are not ready
to tolerate or even enjoy and learn from this, travelling seems a waste of
time for yourself and a burden for the locals whereever you go.

Jens (casual smoker andf smoke hater :-)

... There are
many studies showing that breathing second-hand smoke for
an extended period is definitely detrimental to good health.

There are also studies that show it has absolutely no effect whatsoever.

That statement is totally false. I challenge you to find a study that
found second-hand smoke to be completely neutral. There have
been studies that disagree on the level of damage done by second-
hand smoke, but none have said it is neutral. The knowledge base
on smoking goes back many decades, long before warnings were
printed on cigarette packages. Use some common sense: do you
really think every particle of chemicals is absorbed by the smoker
before he/she exhales? Also, the smoke from the cigarette that is
not inhaled is virgin smoke, containing all of its chemicals.


Casey

If second-hand smoke bothers you...buy stock in one of the tobacco
companies and collect the dividend. That will help you overcome the
nuisance. You might even be able to use those dividends for a trip where
there was no smoking allowed such a a Carnival cruise.
~~DORIS~~

In article . net,
"Casey" wrote:

... There are
many studies showing that breathing second-hand smoke for
an extended period is definitely detrimental to good health.

There are also studies that show it has absolutely no effect whatsoever.

That statement is totally false.


So I guess you are just the 'concept' guy and leave the specifics to
others. You bring few facts to the table... despite your reading....

jay
Sat, Oct 18, 2003




I challenge you to find a study that
found second-hand smoke to be completely neutral. There have
been studies that disagree on the level of damage done by second-
hand smoke, but none have said it is neutral. The knowledge base
on smoking goes back many decades, long before warnings were
printed on cigarette packages. Use some common sense: do you
really think every particle of chemicals is absorbed by the smoker
before he/she exhales? Also, the smoke from the cigarette that is
not inhaled is virgin smoke, containing all of its chemicals.


Casey



--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Sjoerd wrote:

Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health. However,
Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we can and can not
do.

Yet that is exactly what a smoker does, not telling but actually forcing
everyone around to breathe smoke.