Stupid european airlines require Thai visa before boarding

Thanks for the advice. Now, please tell me what a "refundable" ticket
is. (I don`t know much about airline ticket types.) My ticket is a
return ticket, yes, and it is also refundable if I pay a penalty of
130 euro, but I`m not sure that it`s "refundable" in the sense that
you mean (eg. fully refundable, like a business class ticket). (Also,
my ticket allows me to change my return date for 50 euro, if that`s
relevant.)

I called the Thai embassy this morning and they say what you say--if I
have a return ticket I can stay for 30 days without a visa. No mention
that the return ticket also had to be "refundable". The Thai embassy
person said that the airlines frequently get confused about Thai visa
requirements. (can`t imagine why)




"Sjoerd" wrote in message ...
"AsiaWanderer" schreef in bericht
om...
I`ve taken 2 r-t flights to Thailand from the US, one for 8 months and
one for 4, without any mention of a visa requirement by the US travel
agents or the airlines on which I flew (China Airways and EVA), so I
don`t know why this is such an issue in Germany. Thailand has the same
visa rules for both the US and Germany, I believe, so why don`t the US
travel agents mention this?

Also, I`ve never been turned back by the Thais at the BKK airport for
lack of visa or onward ticket, or even had the issue mentioned by Thai
immigration. I simply get the 30 day entry permit, so what`s said and
what`s done is very contradictory.

I`ll probably end up shelling out 25 USD for the 2 month Thai visa,
and hope that will be enough (though obviously it won`t cover a 6
month visit. I don`t think I can even get a 6 month visa). As I said,
I`ll only be spending a month in Thailand anyway. The rest will be
elsewhere. It still seems stupid.

It is not stupid at all.

READ THE RULES:

"Visa not required for a max. stay up to 30 days provided
holding confirmed return/onward ticket."

So just buy a refundable ticket out of Thailand and you are all set. And
you'll save USD 25.

The fact that China Airlines and EVA didn't enforce the rule doesn't mean
the rule didn't exist at that time. You were just lucky that they let you on
the plane. Also, recently Thai immigration has become much stricter
(terrorism scare) and this past August for the first time in over 15 years
of regular travel to Thailand they actually asked me some questions at Thai
immigration.

Sjoerd

"Thomas F. Unke" wrote in message
...

If I were you, I would not accept the hassle. If they won't let you

Your acceptance is not asked.

fly, ask to see the supervisor. Have enough funds ready to proof that

If I was the supervisor I would refuse to meet you.

you are not poor. Offer them an agreement to pay for all fines LH may

Don't believe this.

be forced to in BKK.

In my experience, they finally let you fly. Have done that discussion
several times.

Really?

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:09:15 GMT, Thomas F. Unke
wrote:

Chris Blunt writes:


The 30-day permission to enter is granted on the condition that the
passenger is holding an onward or return confirmed ticket for not more
than the 30-day period. If they don't meet that requirement then
technically they are not entitled to enter the country.

And people with "hippy look" are not allowed either. Do you expect the
airline to refuse people just because of their looks?

No, I wouldn't, because I've never seen any that in any official rules
as stated by the Thai government. Have you?

See, what I'm criticising here is only a small number of airlines who
do not use common sense, but stick to the letters. Most airlines don't
hassle their customers and do not have any disadvantage from that
(fines etc). Most airlines agree with my arguments here ;-)

Its true that the immigration authorities seldom check, but that's
probably because they believe the airline will have done that for
them at check-in.

When you enter via a land border, they do not check either. I have
done that dozens of time. It is not that they assume that the airline
has done that. Immigration officers never assume anything, they check
themselves if they need to.

I'm not sure what the actual legal requirement is in that situation.
Perhaps the law we're talking about only applies to passengers
arriving by air.

authorities there. If anyone, I think its the Thai immigration
authorities that you should be criticising.

Yep, the rules are stupid. But in any country, laws or rules will be
interpreted somehow. They are not necessarily enforced.

In Thailand, it is accepted practice not to enforce the rule on "hippy
look" and "onward reservation". Airlines have to consider that.

Yes, in the past it hasn't been a problem. I think this is happening
more now because Thailand has recently begun a policy of more strictly
enforcing its visa rules. I think the airlines know that and are being
more careful that they are following the rules.

"Spehro Pefhany" schreef in bericht
...

Can't they also be forced to take him right back again?

Yes.

Meaning that
they might have to bump a legitimate passenger (and presumably
compensate them) on their next flight back.

Yes, and they'll get a fine on top of all that.

Sjoerd

"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
"Sjoerd" writes:

Whatever. Again, you are totally ignorant about international travel.
Believe whatever you want to be believe. Du hast recht und ich meine
Ruhe.

The typical usenet reaction of a loudmouth who calls others "ignorant"
and "clueless" but cannot give any facts.

I have given very relevant "facts" (namely, the official rules from Thai
Immigration) on this thread.

Sjoerd

"AsiaWanderer" schreef in bericht
om...
Thanks for the advice. Now, please tell me what a "refundable" ticket
is. (I don`t know much about airline ticket types.)

A ticket that you can get all of your money back for if you give it back to
the airline. Usually a full fare ticket.

My ticket is a
return ticket, yes, and it is also refundable if I pay a penalty of
130 euro, but I`m not sure that it`s "refundable" in the sense that
you mean (eg. fully refundable, like a business class ticket). (Also,
my ticket allows me to change my return date for 50 euro, if that`s
relevant.)

I called the Thai embassy this morning and they say what you say--if I
have a return ticket I can stay for 30 days without a visa. No mention
that the return ticket also had to be "refundable".

It doesn't have to be, but it saves you money if you don't know your onward
travel plans yet.

Sjoerd

Markku Grönroos wrote:
"Thomas F. Unke" wrote:
fly, ask to see the supervisor. Have enough funds ready to proof that

If I was the supervisor I would refuse to meet you.

If I were the Pope, I'd move the Vatican to Bali.

you are not poor. Offer them an agreement to pay for all fines LH may
be forced to in BKK.

Don't believe this.

I agree that this is not going to be a very persuasive argument unless you
have a lawyer with you and Lufthansa has sent one along to the gate as well
and you draft a formal contract (i.e., this specific approach is going
nowhere).

In my experience, they finally let you fly. Have done that discussion
several times.

Really?

This I agree with Thomas on. I have never been excluded from a flight or
country for failure to have onward travel arrangements, despite it sometimes
being a temporary issue. With firm politeness and reasonable explanation it
works eventually.

miguel
--
Gator is spyware!

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...

In my experience, they finally let you fly. Have done that discussion
several times.

Really?

This I agree with Thomas on. I have never been excluded from a flight or
country for failure to have onward travel arrangements, despite it
sometimes
being a temporary issue. With firm politeness and reasonable explanation
it
works eventually.

Perhaps not this time. First of all I don't call anybody a liar (too
frequently anyways), but this time I *assume* there has been at least some
exaggeration around. Secondly, I find it difficult to believe that a company
always withdraws in it's decision concerning you just because you
want/demand it. If I was the company, I would sweep my arse by such a
demand. In this case company's decision is much/ultimately regulated by
decisions of the Thai authority. Perhaps the carrier is in position not to
behave in any other way. I can very well understand that the Thai
immigration is not too keen to see a foreign traveller without visa having
no proof that he/she is not going to spent the following six months in the
kingdom. I wouldn't, if I was the Thai immigration. I am convinced that the
Finnish authority at border can very well deny any foreign tourist to enter
Finland without travelling documents telling that he is about to leave the
country within a decent period of time. Actually I believe that a foreign
tourist can be returned even if he has a ticket out on next Sunday. I
believe that this applies to the American immigation as well.

"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
"Sjoerd" writes:


I have given very relevant "facts" (namely, the official rules from Thai
Immigration) on this thread.

No. You claimed that there are "fines" for tourist without onward
booking.

I never claimed that. Learn how to read, Thomas. I claimed that *airlines*
get fines for transporting people without the proper immigration documents.

I asked you how many tourists were recently refused entry and
how many fines the airlines paid.

You couldn't answer that.

Can you?

Sjoerd

"Thomas F. Unke" schreef in bericht
...
"Sjoerd" writes:

I never claimed that. Learn how to read, Thomas. I claimed that
*airlines*
get fines for transporting people without the proper immigration
documents.

From the beginning, the discussion was about the _concrete_ case of
airlines demanding onward/return tickets when going to Thailand. If
now you don't claim that airlines are fined when a tourist comes on a
30-days free visa - fine.

You still can't read. I still claim that *airlines* may be fined for people
they transport to a country without the proper immigration documents which
may (and for Thailand does) include an onward/return ticket.

This is exactly what I said.

It is not. You still can't read.


Anyway, we don't need to repeat that over and over again.

But out of curiosity - for all the readers he During more than 20
years of travelling to Thailand, I was never, ever, asked for a return
ticket. Not even to show my funds, and during younger times I was more
looking like a hippie than now. My last travel to Thailand is a bit
over 6 months ago, and of course nobody mentioned to see a return
ticket.

So I'd like to know: has anybody ever been asked for that?


Twice in approximately 40 visits. Once when arriving overland from Laos,
once this last August when arriving at BKK from Singapore.

By the way, you forgot to answer my question if *you* can quote any reliable
data if airlines have ever been fined by Thai authorities for transporting
people without proper immigration documents.

Sjoerd