America travel pointers

On 18 Aug 2006 11:14:45 -0700, wrote:


ROD wrote:


have tips for me to share. She won't listen but I can plant a seed of some

If she won't listen to you, I don't know why she'd listen to me G
but:

http://www.fema.gov/areyouready

Be aware of the hazards around where she'll be traveling. The American
Red Cross and the local Emergency Manager can help with that.

Prepare a plan for dealing with the hazards one might face.

Build a kit for supporting the plan. Since she'll be traveling, this
should be a given, i.e. she'll have her supplies, etc. However, how
about if the restaurants are closed because of the disaster? Will she
have enough food to last until relief is stood up?

I don't know very many people who are going to travel with a
week's supply of food in their luggage. Do you?


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:49:34 -0700, Icono Clast
wrote:


Miriam Cohen wrote:

Any number of examples of why young women should not hitch hike
can be found he

http://www.crimelibrary.com/

You could put together a list of children murdered by their parents
to cite as "Any number of examples of why" children should not have
parents.

You could put together a list of people killed in pedestrian zones to
cite as "Any number of examples of why" people shouldn't cross
streets, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

My relevant boilerplate says:

Your concern is unanswerable because an Earthquake could happen at
any instant. Fires happen. Cyclones, floods, tornadoes, tsunami,
hurricanes. Bad guys might be at the corner. If they're not involved
with someone else, they might want to get involved with you. You
could be mistakenly arrested and charged with a serious crime.
Traffic lights get out of order. People ignore STOP signs and lights.
Safety isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere. What scares you might
differ from what scares me. Statistics indicate that your bathroom is
the most dangerous place you can be. Better watch out!


But none of those involve deliberately placing yourself in a
small closed environment less than a handspan away from a
possible wrong-doer.

Why is this so obvious to everyone except "Icono Clast"?

I could be struck down as I cross the street in a marked
crosswalk, that is true. But it is not an excuse to walk across a
busy freeway even though I may safely make it to the other side.

Not to mention that if I am struck down on a busy street the EMTs
will no doubt be arriving in short order, and my family will be
quickly notifed. Crimes against hitchhikers usually actually
occur out in hidden places such as dark country lanes where the
victim may be unceremoniously dumped at the end, and not found
for days, if at all, leaving the victim's family distraught with
not knowing..

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *


--
L'Chaim

Miriam

In the beginning
the Word already was.

On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:42:17 -0700, Hatunen
wrote:

On 18 Aug 2006 11:14:45 -0700, wrote:


ROD wrote:


have tips for me to share. She won't listen but I can plant a seed of some

If she won't listen to you, I don't know why she'd listen to me G
but:

http://www.fema.gov/areyouready

Be aware of the hazards around where she'll be traveling. The American
Red Cross and the local Emergency Manager can help with that.

Prepare a plan for dealing with the hazards one might face.

Build a kit for supporting the plan. Since she'll be traveling, this
should be a given, i.e. she'll have her supplies, etc. However, how
about if the restaurants are closed because of the disaster? Will she
have enough food to last until relief is stood up?

I don't know very many people who are going to travel with a
week's supply of food in their luggage. Do you?

Boy, was that ambiguous. Let me rephrase: Do *you* carry a week's
supply of food in your luggage when you travel?

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

In article , Hatunen at
says...
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:49:34 -0700, Icono Clast
wrote:

Miriam Cohen wrote:
Any number of examples of why young women should not hitch hike
can be found he

http://www.crimelibrary.com/

You could put together a list of children murdered by their parents
to cite as "Any number of examples of why" children should not have
parents.

You could put together a list of people killed in pedestrian zones to
cite as "Any number of examples of why" people shouldn't cross
streets, etc., etc., ad infinitum.

My relevant boilerplate says:

Your concern is unanswerable because an Earthquake could happen at
any instant. Fires happen. Cyclones, floods, tornadoes, tsunami,
hurricanes. Bad guys might be at the corner. If they're not involved
with someone else, they might want to get involved with you. You
could be mistakenly arrested and charged with a serious crime.
Traffic lights get out of order. People ignore STOP signs and lights.
Safety isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere. What scares you might
differ from what scares me. Statistics indicate that your bathroom is
the most dangerous place you can be. Better watch out!

But none of those involve deliberately placing yourself in a
small closed environment less than a handspan away from a
possible wrong-doer.

Even more reason to put a TV in your closet and stay there until the
Good Guys come to tell your it is safe to venture out.

--

"The way of the superior man is threefold, but I am not equal to it.
Virtuous, he is free from anxieties; wise, he is free from
perplexities; bold, he is free from fear." - Confucius

Icono Clast wrote:
My relevant boilerplate says:

Your concern is unanswerable because an Earthquake could happen at any
instant. Fires happen. Cyclones, floods, tornadoes, tsunami,
hurricanes. Bad guys might be at the corner. If they're not involved
with someone else, they might want to get involved with you. You could
be mistakenly arrested and charged with a serious crime. Traffic
lights get out of order. People ignore STOP signs and lights. Safety
isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere. What scares you might differ
from what scares me. Statistics indicate that your bathroom is the
most dangerous place you can be. Better watch out!

Hatunen wrote:
But none of those involve deliberately placing yourself in a small
closed environment less than a handspan away from a possible
wrong-doer.

Excellent point.


Miriam Cohen wrote:
Why is this so obvious to everyone except "Icono Clast"?

I'm aware of the dangers from personal experience, "Miriam". They are
to be neither discounted nor exaggerated.

Well that was a completely irrelevant screed, do you have a point

Why, yes, "Miriam", I do. And it's a quite simple one:

Safety isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere.

California has not had more than it's "fair share" of serial
killers who have chosen their victims from young women standing by
roads with their thumbs out?

It happens. And by no means do I make light of it. But homes are
invaded, too, and people sometimes die when that happens. But if we
avoided doing things because someone got hurt doing it, we'd do nothing.

I think what [the original poster] was trying to do for his little
sister was really cool, trying to make sure she's safe in a
foreign country and I thought he deserved an honest answer that
hitch hiking is dangerous for young women and should never be
attempted because some guy says it's safe when there's no way he
can guarantee that.

I don't remember anyone saying that hitch-hiking anywhere is "safe".
Nor do I recall anyone saying that picking up hitch-hikers is "safe".
Whichever side one is at a particular moment, it ain't "safe". But so
is everything else one does.


Iceman wrote:
Hitchhiking doesn't guarantee that you will be harmed or robbed,
but it massively increases the risk that you will.

I wouldn't say "massively".

-- __________________________________________________ ______________
"San Francisco is a pleasure. Los Angeles is a headache" Rita (NYC)
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 ------- IClast at Gmail com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Miriam Cohen" wrote in message
news:K7oFg.1817$rT5.790@fed1read01...
Hatunen wrote:
On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 04:49:34 -0700, Icono Clast
wrote:


Miriam Cohen wrote:

Any number of examples of why young women should not hitch hike
can be found he

http://www.crimelibrary.com/

You could put together a list of children murdered by their parents to
cite as "Any number of examples of why" children should not have parents.

You could put together a list of people killed in pedestrian zones to
cite as "Any number of examples of why" people shouldn't cross streets,
etc., etc., ad infinitum.

My relevant boilerplate says:

Your concern is unanswerable because an Earthquake could happen at any
instant. Fires happen. Cyclones, floods, tornadoes, tsunami, hurricanes.
Bad guys might be at the corner. If they're not involved with someone
else, they might want to get involved with you. You could be mistakenly
arrested and charged with a serious crime. Traffic lights get out of
order. People ignore STOP signs and lights. Safety isn't anywhere. Danger
is everywhere. What scares you might differ from what scares me.
Statistics indicate that your bathroom is the most dangerous place you
can be. Better watch out!


But none of those involve deliberately placing yourself in a
small closed environment less than a handspan away from a
possible wrong-doer.

Why is this so obvious to everyone except "Icono Clast"?


He obviously doesn't have any daughters.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:43:51 -0700, Icono Clast
wrote:

Icono Clast wrote:
My relevant boilerplate says:

Your concern is unanswerable because an Earthquake could happen at any
instant. Fires happen. Cyclones, floods, tornadoes, tsunami,
hurricanes. Bad guys might be at the corner. If they're not involved
with someone else, they might want to get involved with you. You could
be mistakenly arrested and charged with a serious crime. Traffic
lights get out of order. People ignore STOP signs and lights. Safety
isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere. What scares you might differ
from what scares me. Statistics indicate that your bathroom is the
most dangerous place you can be. Better watch out!

Hatunen wrote:
But none of those involve deliberately placing yourself in a small
closed environment less than a handspan away from a possible
wrong-doer.

Excellent point.


Miriam Cohen wrote:
Why is this so obvious to everyone except "Icono Clast"?

I'm aware of the dangers from personal experience, "Miriam". They are
to be neither discounted nor exaggerated.

Well that was a completely irrelevant screed, do you have a point

Why, yes, "Miriam", I do. And it's a quite simple one:

Safety isn't anywhere. Danger is everywhere.

California has not had more than it's "fair share" of serial
killers who have chosen their victims from young women standing by
roads with their thumbs out?

It happens. And by no means do I make light of it. But homes are
invaded, too, and people sometimes die when that happens. But if we
avoided doing things because someone got hurt doing it, we'd do nothing.

I think what [the original poster] was trying to do for his little
sister was really cool, trying to make sure she's safe in a
foreign country and I thought he deserved an honest answer that
hitch hiking is dangerous for young women and should never be
attempted because some guy says it's safe when there's no way he
can guarantee that.

I don't remember anyone saying that hitch-hiking anywhere is "safe".
Nor do I recall anyone saying that picking up hitch-hikers is "safe".
Whichever side one is at a particular moment, it ain't "safe". But so
is everything else one does.

We all deal every day in personal assessments of risk (which we
frequently get wrong). We balance the risk against the
desirability of facing that risk. One can get run down while
crossing in a crosswalk with the traffic signal, but the risk is
fairly small and we need to get to the other side.

I have a pilots license but I stopped flying decades ago. I
discovered the risk in flying is greater than the pleasure I got
from it, so I stopped.

Back in the 1950s in my late teens I was without a car and did a
lot of long distance travel in the USA's norhteast by
hitch-hiking. But this was only a decade after the end of WW2 and
its gas rationing. And many people had depended on their thumbs
to get around during the preceding Great Depression (a la the
film "It Happened One Night").

The risk seemed lower at that time, and the goal - to get around
with no money - seemed worth the risk. Today the same balancing
act is still required: the risk is perceived as higher; is the
goal worth it? There are a number of arguments pro and con as to
whether any given risk is acceptable, and whether the risk as
perceived is the actual risk. But I think your argument that the
risk from a tornado is somehow eauivalent to the risk of
hitch-hiking is specious.

As I said in my other response to you: I could be struck down as
I cross the street in a marked crosswalk, that is true. But it is
not an excuse to walk across a busy freeway even though I may
safely make it to the other side.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 17 Aug 2006 06:17:43 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

The distances between major cities are much shorter in Europe. And a
large part of the population doesn't have cars.

Where in Europe does a large part of the population not have cars?

The US should have much better urban mass transit and regional rail
systems, but a national rail system doesn't make sense.

The main problem with all mass transit in the US is low population
density.
--
Barbara Vaughan

My email address is my first initial followed by my last name at libero dot it.

B Vaughan wrote:
On 17 Aug 2006 06:17:43 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

The distances between major cities are much shorter in Europe. And a
large part of the population doesn't have cars.

Where in Europe does a large part of the population not have cars?

London, Paris, Berlin, Madrid, and probably a few other large cities.

The US should have much better urban mass transit and regional rail
systems, but a national rail system doesn't make sense.

The main problem with all mass transit in the US is low population
density.

Deliberate policies of the last fifty years have left US cities with a
much lower density than cities in Europe or the richer parts of Asia.
It doesn't have to be that way. It's a chicken and egg problem -
without mass transit you can't have higher density.

On 21 Aug 2006 11:07:22 -0700, "Iceman"
wrote:

B Vaughan wrote:

The main problem with all mass transit in the US is low population
density.

Deliberate policies of the last fifty years have left US cities with a
much lower density than cities in Europe or the richer parts of Asia.
It doesn't have to be that way. It's a chicken and egg problem -
without mass transit you can't have higher density.

"Deliberate policies"?? People have wanted to escape the cities
and own a piece of the countryside for almost as long as the
republic has existed. They started moving out to the suburbs when
rapid transit was developed and moved in hordes once most people
had an automobile. The same trend is happening in Europe.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *