New Trend? or Old News? ~~Mandatory~~ self check-in

In message irwell
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:50:40 -0600, DevilsPGD
wrote:

In message br wrote:

But what if you are just a lazy swine, and can't be arsed to do it on a
particular day?
When did we slip into a world where we cannot "push back" against the
MAN who wants us to be just like ants to their desired machinations?

Sure. What if you don't want to check in at all, or bother with
security? Should you be able to skip whatever portions of the check-in
process you want?

That's how it used to be, not too long ago.
Check in at curbside, or check in at the counter,
or go straight to the gate were all common options.

And heck, why bother with the gate? Just drive your car out to the
tarmac and board the plane.

--
You can get more with a kind word and a 2x4 than just a kind word.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 18:16:47 -0600, DevilsPGD
wrote:

In message irwell
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:50:40 -0600, DevilsPGD
wrote:

In message br wrote:

But what if you are just a lazy swine, and can't be arsed to do it on a
particular day?
When did we slip into a world where we cannot "push back" against the
MAN who wants us to be just like ants to their desired machinations?

Sure. What if you don't want to check in at all, or bother with
security? Should you be able to skip whatever portions of the check-in
process you want?

That's how it used to be, not too long ago.
Check in at curbside, or check in at the counter,
or go straight to the gate were all common options.

And heck, why bother with the gate? Just drive your car out to the
tarmac and board the plane.

Used to be able to do that also, at one time
Think 'Casablanca'.

Apart from everything else we obviously have a generational issue.
The trouble is that whereas us "old duffers" do not begrudge the young turks
their preference for no "queue for me, I'll do-it-myself",
the same young turks seem to want to force their preferred ways way upon
said old duffers.

This essentially is my point.
It is that it is progress to offer choice: it is nazism to frog march
agitated old ladies from familiar procedures even under protest.

The man with the tag about 2 by 4 and kind words has it 100% the wrong way
around. There are people (myself included) for whom the added 2 by 4 is
counterproductive.
I think (I feel a swathing comment coming on) the younger generation have
bought into the powers that be's divine wish that we behave like obedient
little good boys and girls, and have no power to fight back.

They rationalize their compliance, and even booster it as the "rather cool
way" to check-in, rather than fight it.

Swathing comment over.

bb


"Craig Welch" wrote in message
...
DevilsPGD said:

And heck, why bother with the gate? Just drive your car out to the
tarmac and board the plane.

Shhh. Moran might hear you.
--
Craig http://www.wazu.jp/
1,239 Unicode fonts for 82 written language groups:
Price your own web plan: http://www.wazu.jp/hosting/

"Mr Travel" wrote in message
...
SBC News wrote:
Apart from everything else we obviously have a generational issue.
The trouble is that whereas us "old duffers" do not begrudge the young
turks their preference for no "queue for me, I'll do-it-myself",

For the times when I haven't printed out my BP at home, or left it there,
I find kiosks very useful. Why wait in line for a human to take minutes to
do something that takes seconds at the kiosk?

If you want to pay a phone fee or in-person ticketing fee, go right ahead.
If you don't want to use the kiosk to check in, I am not about to force
you to do it, but anticipate that airlines will someday charge for that.
It's not a matter of forcing you to do something you don't want to do. For
the airlines, it is about saving money. Ticket prices in your lifetime
have fallen far below the rate of inflation.

Maybe you could learn a few things. I guess if you feel people like me are
"young turks", then maybe I should try to wean you off of Ma Bell either.
My monthly phone service cost less than some of my domestic phone calls
did in my younger days. I see no reason to go back that monopoly.

Problem is simple: "Value." Some of us would gladly pay a bit more for an
inclusive economy class fare with some of the amenities we used to consider
normal - i.e., decent room, a smile from the flight crew, perhaps even meals
on domestic flights. Kinda like "Premium Economy" on some of the
international segments (i.e., Virgin Atlantic, British Airways, Eva Air,
etc.) or even United's Economy Plus (which a non-elite can purchase on an
annual or on-check-in per segment basis). If you consider apples-to-apples,
I'm not sure that fares are that much lower than they would be otherwise.
But the level of service IS significantly less than it used to be. An
un-bundling is just part of the problem when some airlines are now nickeling
and diming for everything from checking baggage at curbside to peanuts to
pillows and blankets.

In the U.S., to a degree, I think United and Continental are the only two
"legacy" carriers that have realized this, with Continental still serving at
least snacks in Economy on mealtime flights, and United offering the option
of Economy Plus - look at their "Premium Service" between JFK and the West
Coast, which has been very successful.

If you want to fly RyanAir, Southwest, or the like, that's great. But there
should be an option for those who want a bit more service and are willing to
pay a "reasonable" premium for it.

On 17 Oct, 16:56, "SBC News" wrote:
I travel internationally (live in the US) quite often but not exactly every
week.

I saw an astonishing new trend at NCL (Newcastle UK) Air France check-in the
other morning though.

In the wee-small pre-dawn hours checking in for the 6:20 NCL to CDG the
people in the check-in line (yes, those with luggage to check!) were being
forcibly removed by an attendant and forced (literally no choice) to do a
self-check-in at a machine first. Then they were "allowed" to go back in
line and check their bags.

I noted an old lady saying something like "Ooh no, pick someone else PLEASE"
but her pleas fell on deaf ears of the gestapo-ish attendant. Help and
assistance -was- given but seeing old ladies with poor eyesight and zero
computer skills being forced to try and enter passport numbers or scan
passports etc. etc. on touch screens they obviously had no clue how to use .
. . was very painful and I am sure embarrassing and stressful for them. It
was bad enough for me and I am 50 and very computer savvy. I was not
expecting this and did not have my reading glasses handy. I also had carry
on and 2 bags to check and no spare hands at all to fart around with all
that stuff.

I was required to enter Green Card info and a lot of very persnickety stuff
which was a strain for me both in terms of not being able to see well (!)
and having to remove documents from safe places in a confusing environment.
A recipe, in short, for lost passports, dropped valuables, and what have
you.

Is this mandatory self-check-in common in Europe *even* for those checking
baggage? Is it unique to good old Air France?

Either way: it sucks imho. I was only dispensed one boarding pass from the
machine anyhow, for a 2-leg flight to IAH, and confusion ensued.

I am interested to hear feedback from the group. I think those who are
machine-o-phobic, old, or have baggage to check should be allowed to choose.

It is a growing trend to insist on on-line check-in or check-in at the
kiosk. Several times I have been 'hectored' to the kiosk.

The problem is if you use a travel agent, then the system may not
recognise you. So you can end up being forced to wait to check-in the
old way just because you are a frequent business traveller who has to
use an agent.

Some airlines require the full e-ticket # for on-line check-in
Others require the 6 digit reservation code
Others require the id to be entered in a separate box during booking
(e.g. FF#), it is not sufficient that your FF# is entered to make the
reservation as the on-line and kiosk will not recognise this.
....and then you find that if you print your boarding pass it cannnot
be scanned so you have go go back to check-in to get a proper boarding
pass and re-join the queue all over again.

In some cases there seems to be resistance from passengers; I see the
express bag drop counter completely empty but the old fashioned check-
in having a huge queue.

And don't forget telephone check-in.

In the old days check-in was so simple... I'm sure the new methods are
a whole lot better when they work.. Problem is it seems a whole lot
more complicated and every airline is different.













bb

On 21 Oct, 20:52, Mr Travel wrote:
wrote:

The problem is if you use a travel agent, then the system may not
recognise you. So you can end up being forced to wait to check-in the
old way just because you are a frequent business traveller who has to
use an agent.

If the system doesn't recognize you because you made a reservation
through a TA, then you TA made a mistake.

They enter the FF# and everything else is correct. However, they need
to enter this # in another box to show the airline this # is used as
the means of id for on-line check-in or check-in at the kiosk.

Yes it is partly that the TA make mistakes. But the airlline still
has your FF# in their reservation system, it is just they don't
recognise it as a form of id so on-line or kiosk check-in does not
work.

Your are "recongized" to the
airline by the code given when the reservation is made.
Have you personally experienced this? On what carrier?
What was the cause of the problem?

Ill thought out/incompatible computer systems of TA and airlines and
the fact that all airlines are different in requirements.

Some airlines require the full e-ticket # for on-line check-in
Others require the 6 digit reservation code

Which airline requires the e-ticket number for check-in?

For on-line check-in. Read what I wrote..!

Which airline requires you know the confirmation code?

For on-line check-in, again read what I wrote.

A couple of years ago, AS required it, but I found out back then that I
could enter any 6 characters and get to a screen that would let me check
in. That problem is no longer there. It sounds like you are trying to
make the process sound far mor difficult than it is.

If you use a travel agent, the new check-in methods can be
impossible.

Others require the id to be entered in a separate box during booking
(e.g. FF#), it is not sufficient that your FF# is entered to make the
reservation as the on-line and kiosk will not recognise this.
...and then you find that if you print your boarding pass it cannnot
be scanned so you have go go back to check-in to get a proper boarding
pass and re-join the queue all over again.

I have never had a problem where scanning the boarding passed caused any
problem other than needing the gate agent to manually override the
problem it when boarding. I have had misreads on AS, AA, WN, UA, and
DL, so maybe your experience is not with an American carrier.

Nothing to do with the gate agent. It is scanned at security (and
your photo taken). There is usually a queue for this queue which can
be quite long. It never happened to me because I listened to the
check-in agent who had already had people sent back and insisted on
printing me a 'proper' boarding pass.

wrote:


Which airline requires the e-ticket number for check-in?


For on-line check-in. Read what I wrote..!

Read what I wrote. Does the word "which" have a different meaning in the UK?


Which airline requires you know the confirmation code?


For on-line check-in, again read what I wrote.


Read what I wrote. Does the word "which" have a different meaning in the UK?



A couple of years ago, AS required it, but I found out back then that I
could enter any 6 characters and get to a screen that would let me check
in. That problem is no longer there. It sounds like you are trying to
make the process sound far mor difficult than it is.


If you use a travel agent, the new check-in methods can be
impossible.

Your travel agent should be able to find out the correct booking number
the airline recognizes, no matter which system the TA uses.
If your TA is using an Apollo systems and is too stupid to get you a
Sabre confirmation code from the airline you are booked on (if the
airline uses Sabre), then you should consider using another agent.



I have never had a problem where scanning the boarding passed caused any
problem other than needing the gate agent to manually override the
problem it when boarding. I have had misreads on AS, AA, WN, UA, and
DL, so maybe your experience is not with an American carrier.


Nothing to do with the gate agent. It is scanned at security (and
your photo taken).

Not in the US, and you will notice I said "maybe your experience is NOT
with an American carrier"?

On 22 Oct, 08:53, mrtravel wrote:
wrote:

Which airline requires the e-ticket number for check-in?

10 For on-line check-in. Read what I wrote..!

Read what I wrote. Does the word "which" have a different meaning in the UK?

Goto 10

Which airline requires you know the confirmation code?

For on-line check-in, again read what I wrote.

Read what I wrote. Does the word "which" have a different meaning in the UK?

Goto 10

A couple of years ago, AS required it, but I found out back then that I
could enter any 6 characters and get to a screen that would let me check
in. That problem is no longer there. It sounds like you are trying to
make the process sound far mor difficult than it is.

If you use a travel agent, the new check-in methods can be
impossible.

Your travel agent should be able to find out the correct booking number
the airline recognizes, no matter which system the TA uses.
If your TA is using an Apollo systems and is too stupid to get you a
Sabre confirmation code from the airline you are booked on (if the
airline uses Sabre), then you should consider using another agent.

Not always sufficient... The 6 digit booking code or full e-ticket #
are not required or recognised by some on-line/kiosk check-in systems,
but are essential for others. So if the agent does everything the
same for all bookings, the result can be different. It may have
escaped you but people who travel on business don't always get a
choice of travel agents.. if there was a choice I would not use a
travel agent at all of 90% of flights.

I have never had a problem where scanning the boarding passed caused any
problem other than needing the gate agent to manually override the
problem it when boarding. I have had misreads on AS, AA, WN, UA, and
DL, so maybe your experience is not with an American carrier.

Nothing to do with the gate agent. It is scanned at security (and
your photo taken).

Not in the US, and you will notice I said "maybe your experience is NOT
with an American carrier"?

I guess there is still fairly sloppy security in the US, despite the
huge hike in taxes..!

wrote:

I guess there is still fairly sloppy security in the US, despite the
huge hike in taxes..!

I see. So, you believe 9/11 could have been prevented if only security
had checked the boarding passes of the hijackers? Do you think the shoe
bomber, who did NOT start his flight from the US, have his boarding pass
checked by security?

So, there you have it.
2 prime examples of how validating a bording pass doesn't make flying
safer.

In one case, the boarding pass wasn't checked, but there have been no
ceeditable reports of the 9/11 hijackers using fake boarding. In the
other case, we have a dangerous person who had his boarding pass checked
by security and still got on the plane.

Security isn't about checking boarding passes.
The purpose of boarding pass checking in the US is to reduce the number
of people that have to be screened by TSA. It is not a barrier to
terrorsts wanting to board a plane anymore than putting SSSS on a BP for
a flight purchased as one way.

schrieb:
On 21 Oct, 20:52, Mr Travel wrote:
wrote:

The problem is if you use a travel agent, then the system may not
recognise you. So you can end up being forced to wait to check-in the
old way just because you are a frequent business traveller who has to
use an agent.
If the system doesn't recognize you because you made a reservation
through a TA, then you TA made a mistake.

They enter the FF# and everything else is correct. However, they need
to enter this # in another box to show the airline this # is used as
the means of id for on-line check-in or check-in at the kiosk.

Yes it is partly that the TA make mistakes. But the airlline still
has your FF# in their reservation system, it is just they don't
recognise it as a form of id so on-line or kiosk check-in does not
work.

Your are "recongized" to the
airline by the code given when the reservation is made.
Have you personally experienced this? On what carrier?
What was the cause of the problem?

Ill thought out/incompatible computer systems of TA and airlines and
the fact that all airlines are different in requirements.

Some airlines require the full e-ticket # for on-line check-in
Others require the 6 digit reservation code
Which airline requires the e-ticket number for check-in?

For on-line check-in. Read what I wrote..!

Which airline requires you know the confirmation code?

For on-line check-in, again read what I wrote.

A couple of years ago, AS required it, but I found out back then that I
could enter any 6 characters and get to a screen that would let me check
in. That problem is no longer there. It sounds like you are trying to
make the process sound far mor difficult than it is.

If you use a travel agent, the new check-in methods can be
impossible.

Ok I understand now what the problem is. You didn't book the flight in
person.
I always book my flights myself online and pay with a credit card. At
the airport I just put my CC in the machine and my flight of the day
pops up. It's easier than drawing money out of a cash machine.

T.


Others require the id to be entered in a separate box during booking
(e.g. FF#), it is not sufficient that your FF# is entered to make the
reservation as the on-line and kiosk will not recognise this.
...and then you find that if you print your boarding pass it cannnot
be scanned so you have go go back to check-in to get a proper boarding
pass and re-join the queue all over again.
I have never had a problem where scanning the boarding passed caused any
problem other than needing the gate agent to manually override the
problem it when boarding. I have had misreads on AS, AA, WN, UA, and
DL, so maybe your experience is not with an American carrier.

Nothing to do with the gate agent. It is scanned at security (and
your photo taken). There is usually a queue for this queue which can
be quite long. It never happened to me because I listened to the
check-in agent who had already had people sent back and insisted on
printing me a 'proper' boarding pass.