"I Am Not American" Web Site Adds Designs, Languages, Merchandise

On 12 Dec 2003 08:56:32 -0800, in rec.travel.air you wrote:

wrote in message . ..
Itchy? Nah, it's okay with me if people want to be offensive. After
all, there are a couple of countries that I look upon with something
less than affection. And sometimes I'm not too happy with my own
country, either. I just get annoyed when people get all coy about it
like the t-shirt guy.
A recent news article showed Americans were getting upset at
how Canadians "dared" to sew the Canadian flag on their backpacks, etc
or were so proud of being Canadian when overseas, because the
Canadians were so obviously wanting to define themselves as not being
American. All this merely for pasting their national flag, as so many
citizens of other countries do as well. Yet go to any international
sporting event and who's the first to start chanting? Usually the
Americans with their "U-S-A! U-S-A!" chant. Americans are all for
'freedom of speech'...except when it's someone else doing the speech.

I find this whole Canadian flag on the backpack thing very
interesting. The only people I've ever heard even mention such a
thing are Canadians. They seem to be sure that it's a very important
thing to do and that Americans all do this, too, to hide their real
nationality. Yet, I've never known any Americans who have done so or
even considered it. Considering how showily patriotic most Americans
are (U-S-A! U-S-A!), I find it very unlikely that they would be
willing to pretend to be Canadian.

Well, context is everything. He's not saying I'm not an American as
a national identification.
How do you know this? You know him personally? You
interviewed him?

Just my opinion, based on the designs on his website.

He's saying " I don't belong to that
(insert insulting adjective) country, so don't associate me with
them."

I'm sorry, but I translated the Arabic, French and German (with
my friends doing the same for Chinese, Japanese and Dutch) and none of
those use any form of insulting adjective. Looks like it merely says
"I am not American". Okay statement of fact for me. I'm not American
either. And I just ordered one of the shirts myself. The version
with the Arabic translation, but I requested it without the English.
Apparantly I'm going to get it in a few days.

Good for you. Have fun with it. I trust that all the Arabic reading
public who see you will be interested to learn you are Canadian.
(Since you're posting from Canada, I'm assuming that is your
nationality.)

Okay, fair enough, but don't write on and on about how it's
not meant to be anti-American. Of course it is.

It is no more anti-American than it would be anti-Canadian for you
to say "I'm not Canadian".

Well, how about if I wore the one that says "Proud not to be
Canadian"? Would you say that is merely a statement that I'm proud
to be American, with no offense meant to Canada?

Turby wrote in message . ..
Balderdash. Fluency in a second language has almost nothing to do with
any outlook on international relations.

I wasn't referring to the element of fluency. I was referring to the
overall tone of the post. "We're so big and wonderful, we don't NEED
to X".

Karen wrote in message . ..
On 12 Dec 2003 08:47:12 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:
Because "I am Canadian" has been done and is generally accepted
these days to be an advertisement for a brand of beer. Therefore,
it's trademarked.

Uh huh.

Is that an "I don't have a clue" type response, or an
acknowledgement of my statement's accuracy?

I also didn't mention the one that says "Proud not to be an American".
No anti-Americanism there, either, huh?

I just noticed that one, it's new. Thanks. I think it looks
good, what with the red, white and blue.

I am an American. (Did you really think I'd fall for that?)

People have before, but do tell...do you think it would be so
bad to have responded with "I am not Canadian"? I certainly wouldn't
go getting all offended. I am not Canadian. I am not American. I am
not English. Am I offending all those countries? I doubt it. Am I
being anti-insert country here? No. I'm just stating a simple
fact.

Karen wrote in message . ..
I find this whole Canadian flag on the backpack thing very
interesting. The only people I've ever heard even mention such a
thing are Canadians.

You should read the New York Times then. They had the article I
was referring to. Overall, it was some survey. As for who does it, A
number of my non-Canadian friends (including those from European and
Pacific Rim countries) put their national flag on their packs (if they
have one) or carry it with them. I have a flag on my desk at the
office.

They seem to be sure that it's a very important
thing to do and that Americans all do this, too, to hide their real
nationality. Yet, I've never known any Americans who have done so or
even considered it.

I've met a number. Of the backpackers I've met over the last
14 years, I'd have to say about 25-30% have hid their national
identities in some way.

Considering how showily patriotic most Americans
are (U-S-A! U-S-A!), I find it very unlikely that they would be
willing to pretend to be Canadian.

Heh...you should get out more, then.

Good for you. Have fun with it. I trust that all the Arabic reading
public who see you will be interested to learn you are Canadian.
(Since you're posting from Canada, I'm assuming that is your
nationality.)
Bad assumption. But one of my Arabic reading friends
(Muslim) thought it was funny after I showed it to her to ensure I
understood it correctly and wasn't really going to be wearing
something that said "I have sex with my dog"

Well, how about if I wore the one that says "Proud not to be
Canadian"? Would you say that is merely a statement that I'm proud
to be American, with no offense meant to Canada?

I see your focus has changed onto the image you pointed out to
me earlier. That is extremely new and wasn't there the last time I
looked. If you want to wear a "Proud not to be Canadian" shirt, go
right ahead. I'm sure the general outlook would be "oh, really? I
feel sorry for you". :-) Having said that, I noticed a number of
Americans were likewise slamming the French...even boycotting their
products and insulting them. Of course, they've been doing that also
with people of Arabic backgrounds, throwing them in jail for weeks on
end without trial, while 'investigating' them. Kinda like the Salem
witch trials. Do you support those activities?

Maybe with the way the USA is treating foreign nationals (even
those who are now US citizens), it is a good time to identify as NOT
being from there.

The Proud not to be American design is good. Next time I get
some spare casherooni, I may by one. Thanks for pointing it out. :-)

Take care.
N

On 13 Dec 2003 08:27:17 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:

Karen wrote in message . ..

Well, how about if I wore the one that says "Proud not to be
Canadian"? Would you say that is merely a statement that I'm proud
to be American, with no offense meant to Canada?

I see your focus has changed onto the image you pointed out to
me earlier. That is extremely new and wasn't there the last time I
looked. If you want to wear a "Proud not to be Canadian" shirt, go
right ahead. I'm sure the general outlook would be "oh, really? I
feel sorry for you". :-)

Well, the whole point of this conversation was whether the shirts on
this site were made as an innocent manner of identification or they
were expressing anti-americanism. I think they're coming from an
negative point of view and the new shirt sort of makes it clearer.
Actually, I like this shirt more than the others. It's not ambiguous.
I'm not offended by the shirts themselves. I'm annoyed by the coy and
disingenuous disclaimers "This is only a means of identification,
nothing against Americans."

Having said that, I noticed a number of
Americans were likewise slamming the French...even boycotting their
products and insulting them. Of course, they've been doing that also
with people of Arabic backgrounds, throwing them in jail for weeks on
end without trial, while 'investigating' them. Kinda like the Salem
witch trials. Do you support those activities?

Maybe with the way the USA is treating foreign nationals (even
those who are now US citizens), it is a good time to identify as NOT
being from there.

I knew we'd get around this this point sooner or later. You'll
get no argument from me here. I don't agree with my government about
the war or about Guantanamo Bay. I didn't vote for Bush and will not
vote for him next time. However I AM an American and while I don't
appreciate or condone the things that are going on in my name right
now, there are many reasons that I am proud of my country and would
not mis-identify myself.

The Proud not to be American design is good. Next time I get
some spare casherooni, I may by one. Thanks for pointing it out. :-)

You know, Nathan, I have a feeling you get all the shirts you want
for free. You are the OP of this thread, according to your IP
address in the headers of the OP and the recent posts with your name.
You have sent announcements of the "I am not American" website to
numerous newsgroups and other internet forums. Are you perhaps the
owner of the site??? Are you genuinely interested in this discussion
or are you using it as a means of drumming up more interest--spamming?

On 13 Dec 2003 08:14:05 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:

Karen wrote in message . ..
On 12 Dec 2003 08:47:12 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:
Because "I am Canadian" has been done and is generally accepted
these days to be an advertisement for a brand of beer. Therefore,
it's trademarked.

Uh huh.

Is that an "I don't have a clue" type response, or an
acknowledgement of my statement's accuracy?

It's an "I don't buy it."

I am an American. (Did you really think I'd fall for that?)

People have before, but do tell...do you think it would be so
bad to have responded with "I am not Canadian"? I certainly wouldn't
go getting all offended. I am not Canadian. I am not American. I am
not English. Am I offending all those countries? I doubt it. Am I
being anti-insert country here? No. I'm just stating a simple
fact.

If somebody asked if I were Canadian , as you did, answering
negatively that I am not is not offensive. But if no one has asked
the question and you just feel the need to wear the negative
statement on your chest, you're making "a statement" IMO.

On 13 Dec 2003 08:07:48 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:

Turby wrote in message . ..
Balderdash. Fluency in a second language has almost nothing to do with
any outlook on international relations.

I wasn't referring to the element of fluency. I was referring to the
overall tone of the post. "We're so big and wonderful, we don't NEED
to X".

Perhaps you're just a bit sensitive. I saw nothing in his post about
wonderfulness, just the bigness.

As a sidelight - because there are so many immigrants, there are many
millions of Americans who do speak foreign languages. And that's not
just the Spanish contingent. In the company I work for, our employees
speak more than 50 languages, from Russian to Thai, from Urdu to
Romanian, and they all consider themselves American.

Turby the Turbosurfer

Karen wrote in message . ..

I'm annoyed by the coy and
disingenuous disclaimers "This is only a means of identification,
nothing against Americans."

Maybe they're not just disclaimers...just the truth? Ever stop
to think you're looking for something that just isn't there, but you
can't grasp the concept that someone may not hate/dislike/whatever
term you want to use folks from the USA yet may not want to be
identified as one?

You know, Nathan, I have a feeling you get all the shirts you want
for free.

Nope. Pay full price. In fact I got an Email saying my shirt
was being shipped. Would you like me to post it for you?

You are the OP of this thread, according to your IP
address in the headers of the OP and the recent posts with your name.

I have noticed that myself, actually. I thought it was because I
was posting through Google. My IP on my internet connection is
similar - different, but similar - and I'm not using any firewall.
Perhaps we're using the same ISP? Odds are good, because the high
speed options are limited

You have sent announcements of the "I am not American" website to
numerous newsgroups and other internet forums.

I've posted a few, because I have always thought it was a good
idea. As a traveller when I save up enough dollars, I like the idea.
I ordered a couple of the original and am checking back often to see
updates.

Are you perhaps the owner of the site???
Nope. Sorry to disappoint you.

Are you genuinely interested in this discussion
or are you using it as a means of drumming up more interest--spamming?

Well, if you think about it, if I was just spamming, I wouldn't be
checking back now, would I? :-) But hey, nice way to change the
topic. Beautiful weather we're having, isn't it? :-) Take care.

Karen wrote in message . ..
It's an "I don't buy it."

Visit www.iam.ca. I am. Canadian (tm)

If somebody asked if I were Canadian , as you did, answering
negatively that I am not is not offensive. But if no one has asked
the question and you just feel the need to wear the negative
statement on your chest, you're making "a statement" IMO.

So, it's not offensive to say "I am not Canadian", then?
What's the difference whether it's written or verbal? There is no
difference. To say there is makes no sense. Saying "I don't want to
go to your party" is not different to sending a card decling. Saying
you're against the war is no different to wearing a t-shirt with the
same message.

There is only a difference because you are looking at the
negative side of the message, and for you to say that one medium is
acceptable but another is not, is hypocritical.

Turby wrote:

On 13 Dec 2003 08:07:48 -0800, (Nathan Rebney)
wrote:


Turby wrote in message . ..

Balderdash. Fluency in a second language has almost nothing to do with
any outlook on international relations.

I wasn't referring to the element of fluency. I was referring to the
overall tone of the post. "We're so big and wonderful, we don't NEED
to X".


Perhaps you're just a bit sensitive.

Well "those cute little European nations" surely sounds bloody
condescending....

Nils