safety in Nairobi

In message
Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

men wrote:

Hans-Georg Michna wrote:

"kees" wrote:

I have been mugged once in my life, in Rome, during the day. Well, at least
they tried to....

Me too, by a gang of children in front of the main station. I
had to shake them off somewhat vigorously, but the biggest
surprise for me was that the adult people around obviously saw
this as absolutely normal.

Totally unimaginable in Germany, for example, where there is a
"culture" of people watching over each other (which sometimes
goes too far in the other direction for some peoples' taste).

Get real. Wake up.
In Germany you can rob someone and no one reacts, afraid that they
themselves are assaulted. All you can hope others call the police.

True, but not when the misbehaving persons are children.

I couldn't understand why the children in question in Rome aren't rounded up
by police at the very least for not being in school.

Liz

--
Virtual Liz at http://www.v-liz.co.uk
Kenya; Tanzania; India; Seychelles
New Aug '03: Namibia
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Hans-Georg Michna wrote in message . ..
Gary,

don't play it down. Nairobi has had around 10 carjackings per
day in recent times and now shares its reputation as one of the
most crime-ridden cities in the world only with Johannesburg.

Talk to people who have lived there for a little longer, and
they will all tell you stories of what happened to
them---robberies with the car owner tied and stuffed into the
trunk, people trying to stop your car with gun in hand, things
like that.

Nowadays when I look back at the 80s when I could walk through
Nairobi with my camera equipment, a fairly big box, without the
least worry, this seems hard to believe from today's point of
view. I hope I'll get to scanning my photos soon, scanner
already slowly on the way, then I can show you what Nairobi was
like in those days, a very pleasant, peaceful city in Africa.

Nairobi has sunk very low.

Hans-Georg

Hans-Georg,

I assure you, I do not play down the dangers of Nairobi. My website
has a places devoted to security and safety. My company gives a
brochure called "Safe Driving in Kenya" to everyone that hires a car
from us. Each one of my drivers undergoes quarterly training sessions
in safety and security including a recent addition regarding
anti-terrorism.

And I do know people that have had robberies and their cars
car-jacked. I have been a victim of an armed robbery - in a small
town in Connectiicut. I have had my car stolen and my house robbed -
in Houston Texas.

Security has improved. Especially at hotels and areas where
international visitors might go. Carjacking have reduced. As owner
of a fleet of new vehicles including Pajeros, Prados, and 1.6 litre
Nissans I am very aware of the risks of car jacking and (touch wood)
we have not had one in a year. This is in part because we started
educating our renters. The last customer to have a car stolen was
trying to pick up a prostitute in a risky area at 1AM.

As to the people that fall victim to crime here - I am talking now of
expats and non-indigenous Africans (Asian Indian, colonial ancestory,
etc.) - almost all of the crimes they are victim of are connected to
someone inside such as a house staff member or involve some business
dealing gone bad.

But yes, there are a lot of risks in Nairobi and if my earlier posting
led people to think it is completely safe, I hope this has clarified
it. It is not the city it was in the 80's. But then I did not have
to put my shoes through a bomb detector before boarding an aeroplane
in the 1980's either.

Gary

Tips on safety in East Africa - www.safari.cc

Gary,

thanks for your interesting message! Good to read.

Maybe somebody should compose a traveller security FAQ
particularly for east Africa. I won't find the time, but some of
it is in my travel plan web page.

Hans-Georg

--
No mail, please.

I couldn't understand why the children in question in Rome aren't rounded
up
by police at the very least for not being in school.

Probably they're gipsies. I can assure you that any child in Italy is
obliged to go to school.
Regarding gipsies (who represent a serious pickpocket problem here), the
government want their children to go to school, but the parents refuse to
let them go, so the result is that they hang around in town in spite of the
law.
Police, somehow tries to grab them and send them to school, but after a
couple of days they're out again.

OK, maybe I was not clear.
Liz, you got ripped off by a taxi driver in Rome... this is not a problem of
safety. Any "REGULAR" taxi in Rome has a meter, so probably you chose a
private cab, or maybe the taxi driver himself was a dork. But this does not
mean Rome isn't safe, it just means that some romans cheat tourists.
I got the same problem the first time I visited London.

You are supplying examples of the risk anyone could encounter in a normal
big city: anyone can have problems in ANY big town (would you say that
London is safer than Rome? Or Berlin safer than Paris? or New York safer
than Amsterdam?), but Nairobi is another stuff.
What I was talking about is SAFETY. Try to walk around at night in Rome and
compare it to Nairobi. I know that, as almost any capital, anything CAN
happen (as it can happen in Paris, London, Amsterdam), but please DO NOT
compare any of these capitals to Nairobi.
In Nairobi you risk to be killed at night. In Rome or Paris THERE IS the
risk to be mugged or robbed, but my opinion is that it is not comparable IN
ANY CASE.

Talking about safety in Germany, I was also mugged in Berlin some time ago,
but I would NEVER say that Berlin is as dangerous as Nairobi. I was in
Nairobi not for such a long time, but I still remember the feeling of danger
when I leaved the hotel for a walk. People watching and TOUCHING at you,
some men following you in the streets... really it was scarying. And I have
visited other african capitals, so I don't get easily impressed only by
atmospheres.

Ciao

Maurizio

(I hope I was clear with my bad english)

SNIPOn Sun, 09 Nov 2003 20:47:18 GMT, "Glendon"
wrote:


Got a problem with carjackers? Fit your car out with this little device!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/232777.stm



I would like to point out that this article was published in december
1998. The device that it talks about never went into production, and
would NOT be legal in South Africa.

It's strange, but very often the only thing some people know about
South Africa is that infernal anti-hijacking device that they saw on
television.

Marc - Johannesburg