a plea to all americans

when is someone going to get around to trying george bush, and his
cronies for their crimes against the rest of the world, there is now
talk of charging saddam hussain with 'agression towards foreign land'
when he waged war on iran, does america and its convient foreign
policy forget that they backed iraq through this war, for their own
'personal benift' as did they back the taliban against russia (tut tut
tut... u thought they would atleast learn then!!)

the u.s has to sit up n start to think, (n i mean really think... not
the type g.b is used to doing!!) why are they drawing such hatred from
the rest of the world? its not just one country.. but growing public
sentiment that the current american government is nothing more than a
bull in a china shop!!!

my plea to all americans would be to please sit up and think... ur
country has produced many a great men in the past, ull can do much
better than george bush for a president, ull are can do much more than
just sit and buy the load of crap ull are force fed daily by your
media

ray wrote:
as did they back the taliban against russia (tut tut
tut
The USA did not support the Taliban.


the u.s has to sit up n start to think, (n i mean really think... not
the type g.b is used to doing!!) why are they drawing such hatred from
the rest of the world? its not just one country.

You're forgetting the many countries that support the USA. You're also
under the dilision that the countries against the Iraq war must hate the
USA entirely. This is just not so. They may disagree with certain
policies and agree with others. The USA pandered to so many countries
over the decades it finally learned the high price paid.

ull are can do much more than
just sit and buy the load of crap ull are force fed daily by your
media

LOL....It's that very media that has spewed the crap you just reiterated
yourself. Seems like it is you that has been force fed by the media.

as did they back the taliban against russia
The USA did not support the Taliban.

He isn't very good with names (or grammar), but he's still right. The
USA backed the Mujahideen against the Soviets in their Afghanistan
war. The Mujahideen turned into the Taliban. Jimmy Carter took
the USA out of the Olympics because of that Soviet war.

And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed
Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Go back and read newspapers
during the 1980s (search on the USS Stark) and you will see that
the media portrayed Iraq as the USA's friend.

You don't know anything about history.


Casey

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:22:13 GMT, "Casey" wrote:

as did they back the taliban against russia
The USA did not support the Taliban.

He isn't very good with names (or grammar), but he's still right. The
USA backed the Mujahideen against the Soviets in their Afghanistan
war. The Mujahideen turned into the Taliban. Jimmy Carter took
the USA out of the Olympics because of that Soviet war.

And ten years later, the Soviet Union was history. Ten years after
that, the Taliban was rightly demolished. Looks like even Jimmy Carter
got some things right with a little help from his successor.

And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed
Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Go back and read newspapers
during the 1980s (search on the USS Stark) and you will see that
the media portrayed Iraq as the USA's friend.

And Stalin as well when it was necessary. Go figure. Didn't stop us
from ending the Soviet Union's reign of terror, did it? Naturally you
would have objected at the time to the cooperation of the Soviet and
American governments fighting Germany, correct? It was fitting and
proper to side with Iraq in a calculated manner against Iran just as
it was with the Soviet Union forty years earlier.

You don't know anything about history.

You sure don't.

Casey wrote:
And you conveniently forgot his other point, that the USA backed
Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war. Go back and read newspapers
during the 1980s (search on the USS Stark) and you will see that
the media portrayed Iraq as the USA's friend.


Ossama had direct help from the CIA. The problem started when Russia pulled
out of Afghanistan and the USA quietly widthdrew its suppor happy that the
enemy of communism had taken over and not thinking about the implications of
the taliban. On Sept 11 2001, the USA paid a high cost for this error. And you
will note that after 9-11, the USA repeated multiple times that this time
around, they wouldn't pull out prematurely. (and this applies to Iraq as well).

What I can't wait to see is Hussein picking up the video where Rumsfeld shakes
his hand to conclude the sale of biological arms and intelligence supply to
help Iraq combat Iran during the 1980s. With such a video in court, he could
then subpoena Rumsfeld and get the USA to publicly admit that it was the USA
who supplied WMD and WMD technologies to Iraq. If Franch television (france)
had a copy of that video, I would assume Hussein's lawyer could get such a copy.

That would be such egg on the face for the americans.

Also, don't forget that as part of the help by Americans to fight Iran, Iraq
got access to tons of US intelligence, satellite photos etc. The USA knew that
Hussein knew about US intelligence capabilities, so the USA knew that if Iraq
still covertly had WMD, it would know how to avoid satellite detection, so to
the USA, the lack of any evidence was interpreted in Hussein knowing how to
hide the stuff from the US's satellites. (The USA never found the UN
inspectors to be useful because they went against the Bush regime's political
goals as per the newamericancentury.org plans.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 03:19:18 -0500, nobody wrote:

What I can't wait to see is Hussein picking up the video where Rumsfeld shakes
his hand to conclude the sale of biological arms and intelligence supply to
help Iraq combat Iran during the 1980s. With such a video in court, he could
then subpoena Rumsfeld and get the USA to publicly admit that it was the USA
who supplied WMD and WMD technologies to Iraq.

Since there is no proof that the U.S. supplied WMD to Iraq in the 80's
or any other time, how would that be helpful to the mass-murderer
Sadam Hussein?

Of course, if you think there IS proof then show us, or be shown
to either be a liar or a pitiful propaganda dupe.

Where is your link to the 'truth'?

Go ahead, we'll wait..


--
* "We will direct every resource at our command - every means of
* diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law
* enforcement, every financial influence and every necessary weapon
* of war - to the disruption and to the defeat of the global terror
* network. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against
* another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or
* no rest." - President George W. Bush - September, 2001

"Mitch Farmer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 05:22:13 GMT, "Casey" wrote:

In Europe, we have a lot to be greatful for from the USA, not least for
helping us rebuild after WWII - a fact that is often forgotten. However,
there is a lot of ill-sentiment towards the US because American forgein
policy is very often extremely naive, and because the people are so
inward-looking. Good foreign policy doesn't win US voters. Take a look at a
US newspaper and you'll struggle to find the half of one page devoted to
world news. The fact that most Americans have never been outside their state
(why would they - America is a big place) also means that Americans (even if
they care) simply do not *realise* they are being overly naive.

As it was, IIRC Bill Clinton - despite his faults - was instrumental in
signing a series of global treaties, in helping secure peace in Northern
Ireland, and in getting the Israelis and Palestinians to the negotiation
table. This was partly because he had at least seen a bit of the world, and
had been able to recognise that each case was slightly more complicated than
good vs bad, white vs black, cowboys vs indians, or Christians vs Muslims.
Fast forward five years and it's all gone to ****, not least because George
Bush, who has barely been outside Texas, reflects this deeply naive
attitutde to the world. It worries the rest of us, because the USA is such a
powerful nation, and has the potential to be a great source of evil as well
as good.

As for the "War on Terror", don't make me laugh (are you listening too,
Blair?). We might as well all call ourselves Canute and command the tide to
stop coming in.


Oh, and:

And Stalin as well when it was necessary. Go figure. Didn't stop us
from ending the Soviet Union's reign of terror, did it? Naturally you

IIRC the USSR disbanded itself, and was largely down to Gorbarchev's brave
"Perestroika"- and at the very least it was more complicated than "The
Americans Won". This is *exactly* the sort of naive and arrogant
banner-waving that ****es off the rest of us.

On Tue, 16 Dec 2003 09:16:47 -0000, "Ken Catchpole" wrote:

This is *exactly* the sort of naive and arrogant
banner-waving that ****es off the rest of us.

Who cares.



--
* "We will direct every resource at our command - every means of
* diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law
* enforcement, every financial influence and every necessary weapon
* of war - to the disruption and to the defeat of the global terror
* network. We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against
* another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or
* no rest." - President George W. Bush - September, 2001

On 15 Dec 2003 19:38:31 -0800, (ray) wrote:

when is someone going to get around to trying george bush, and his
cronies for their crimes against the rest of the world,
(SNIP)
I can under stand your concern with the U.S. of A. With all our faults
we have one thing going for US that keeps any other country from
imposing there will on US. We are the most powerful country in the
history of the world. Iran and Iraq fought to a stand still over a
seven year period. The US Army Third Infantry Division went through
Iraq like "**** through a goose". If another country were that
powerful I would not like it either.

Some advice for you people, I do not care for George "W" but if any of
you people tried to remove him "for their crimes against the rest of
the world" your country would go the same way as Iraq except the U.S.
of A. has all new weapons now. Stock rotation keeps them fresh.

On 15 Dec 2003 19:38:31 -0800, (ray) wrote:


does america and its convient foreign
policy forget that they backed iraq through this war, for their own
'personal benift' as did they back the taliban against russia (tut tut
tut... u thought they would atleast learn then!!)

we havent backed iraq since the iran/iraq war. and taliban did not
exist when we helped liberate afghanistan from soviet imperialist
aggression

get your facts straight.


the u.s has to sit up n start to think, (n i mean really think... not
the type g.b is used to doing!!) why are they drawing such hatred from
the rest of the world?

because so much of the world is pathological. you suggesting the
toilet known as the 'middle east' is a valid representation of logical
thinking? you cant even think straight; why should they?



my plea to all americans would be to please sit up and think... ur
country has produced many a great men in the past, ull can do much
better than george bush for a president, ull are can do much more than
just sit and buy the load of crap ull are force fed daily by your
media


ah, the leftist cliche..."it's the MEDIA"....

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