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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA AJNAYA ORDER (2004) - Part 1
"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 1 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. Introduction: Let me say from the start of my essay that I am not a devotee-scholar and I wrote this essay because of my interest in His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada a spiritual-guru, who founded in the US the Hare Krishna Movement and made it into a household name. Actually this essay carries on from a series of essays that to put it mildly were revolutionary. These were from Gio Vani, Japa Meditation and Knowledge Management 108: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Process: I began to keep for my ready reference the famous May 28 1977 Conversation in the Hare Krishna Movement that both Japa Mediation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) essays were about. Based on these essays I tried to delve more into the Conversation, till I picked a sentence that I found exciting and challenging similar to deciphering stimulus that I liked in the above three essays. Thus there was more deciphering work that needed doing and so this essay is a continuation from these revolutionary (mild word) essays. In fact, I made the eye-opening words that I found special, "amongst our disciples," of Srila Prabhupada, part of the title of this essay. These words represent the Universal Guru Form. Obviously Srila Prabhupada is not saying that his disciples are also belonging also to some other of his disciples. It thus suggests that "our disciples" is being told by Srila Prabhupada because of the Founder's presence in all the columns of fiveization or the Amara Ajnaya Order, see Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) and that is also hence the Universal Guru Form. Presentation: I have presented the essay in an informal style. This is not to say that I want to short-change the work or that academic styles do not have merit. Quite the reverse, I want to make my points felt clearly and succinctly to the reader. Finding 1: 5 Alive Brand for Prabhupada, 2nd & 3rd Alive Brand for disciples I wanted to show the way I have arrived at some of my findings relating to The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation, so I have copied the Conversation below and inside square parenthesis in blue font italics, I have inserted my findings where I thought appropriate. Also I have bolded some words to tell or indicate their importance per se or in the findings within the square parenthesis. In case you want to look at this Conversation without the comments and findings, please go to the Appendices section. Please note that the findings here need to be seen with Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management (2003) essays. Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up [this signals establishing of the 'fixed' disciplic succession with Srila Prabhupada being the sole permanent eternal initiating spiritual master till humanity remains humanity as opposed to 'variable' disciplic succession] I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s). Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes. Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the... Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru. Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf. Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana, (he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order. Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples. Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa to, whose disciple are they? Prabhupada: They are his disciple. Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple. Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple. Satsvarupa: Yes. Tamala Krsna: That's clear. Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer... Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just see). Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in the future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally [Keywords are personal, reconfirmation of context and not impersonal at all] see these translations? [Keywords have the 3 'see' words and singular 'you' and also "personally see" context is not impersonal but personal context] Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly. [the " you" of Japa Meditation (2002), see essay chart/s] Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT could publish it. [Srila Prabhupada's books are bona fide Vedic reference-Srila Prabhupada understands like this in his answer - any other vedic books are not bona fide, BBT is Prabhupada's and bona fide] Prabhupada: That we [this is 'team-personal' not impersonal] are doing [thus this keep doing], just like Hindi. We ['team-personal' not impersonal] are doing other languages. [Thus this keep doing, Nothing / what is new] If it is properly translated, it can be... [Nothing / what is new. Use of "we" and also "our" (see later) signalling ' team.' Automatically 'team' also signal the Panca-Tattva, but note, Srila Prabhupada is not talking to himself in a 5-in-1 way excluding disciples from "we" and "our." Srila Prabhupada's answer is personal to his books not someone else books and is based on present. The communication of Srila Prabhupada is Internal-External (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) basis with (a) 5 in 1 Srila Prabhupada and also (b) 1 in 5 Srila Prabhupada. i.e. acinta beda beda tattva - "inconceivably simultaneously one and different" philosophy - also this answer is for the futu "we are doing" thus Srila Prabhupada is present in spiritual state permanently when not present physical state and the "doing" is because of Srila Prabhupada is present permanently thus if Srila Prabhupada is removed by coup and considered not present permanently then BBT and ISKCON are destroyed as they have almost] Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated yourself. [The choice here if Srila Prabhupada not personally see - How to insure in the future? Either: No Change to books/initiation system or there has to told the Concept/Test that has to match - with answer of No Change to books/initiation system being the conclusion in the May 28 1977 Conversation ] Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation, [signals also to "my purports," "my disciple[s]" - and is personalized] another person translating into Hindi or other languages, we ['team-personal' not impersonal] are publishing. [Nothings / what is new] Similarly, if somebody [body based language] has translated properly, it can be published. [Nothings / What's ne] But amongst our ['team-personal' not impersonal] disciples, [IMPORTANT: UNDERLINED WORDS signals UNIVERSAL GURU FORM (SEE FINDINGS), similar to Krishna showing in the Bhagavad-gita His Universal Form to Arjuna however are in the time/place/circumstance a Guru-Tattva level and implemented within the Conversation in a coded way for safety so that the records were not destroyed by the coup disciples. The Amara Ajnaya Verse Order is Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) and so to speak 'Universalization' (also symbolize the way to transcend the material realm) of Srila Prabhupada in this Fiveization/Presence/Association in each of 5 columns (Japa Meditation, 2002) - instead of localization into only "I" OR "MY" columns - thus Srila Prabhupada is saying "OUR"/"WE" because 5 entities are present. Also this represents the order of total Parampara was carried in a secure way for 'FIVEIZATION' (Thus there is use of words "ONE" and "INSTRUMENT" in the Conversation). The ownership and control of Amara Ajanya Order/ISKCON-BBT-Ritvik disciples--Other disciples are part of the AMARA AJNAYA INSTRUMENT, THE DIVINE PRABHUPADA SONG and the responsibility of disciples is to keep the instrument functioning. This also represents the total control and domination via Yoga-Maya, an alternative to the hellish Maya style via secret material fraternity informally and formally. "Our disciples" and later "Our translations" and extrapolately 'Our Purports' - this is a clue - the 5 in 1 and also 5 way for Srila Prabhupada though his disciples, future disciples and living humanity and other living entities are localized into particular columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Obviously some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples in this conversation also (via coup) had/have turned into initiating spiritual masters, translators or purporters was totally evil. This simultaneous oneness and difference in the columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002) ground-breaking because internal and internal-external and also for future the spiritual management view for ISKCON and BBT] I don't think there are many who can translate properly. [Words extrapolated or those that are not e.g. "my translation," " my disciple," 'my purports' are obviously personal to Srila Prabhupada and not impersonal concept, especially because of words "we" and "our"] Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the BBT. [Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and the adjective of "highest" shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] The name BBT means the highest standard right now in the world. [Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and disciple starts using "we" and Srila Prabhupada likes answer. There is also a risk that evil disciple/s can overstep the mark by trespassing into 'no go' columns (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Thus the clash of 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples on Srila Prabhupada's FIELD of UNIVERSAL GURU FORM, see Bhagavad-gita and Kauaravas army discussions on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra. Then the concept of 'world'used by the disciple with Srila Prabhupada saying "'mouth" signal the catholic symbol, possibly signalling the world conspiracy with the disciple's name having the word Ram - in November 1977, Srila Prabhupada tells of a clip from the Rama/Ravana story of war and battle between good and evil. Also, the same disciple's name has sound of war, Var - perhaps symbolizing the Internal-External unified war against Maya/Illusion. From this part of the Conversation starts the importance of Srila Prabhupada's books and also recordings, the no change to this and hence parampara sections in Srila Prabhupada's books as otherwise they would change into non-Srila Prabhupada books and recordings] Prabhupada: That is good answer. [Best decision of the future do not publish anything not Srila Prabhupada's own] Kirtanananda: Therefore [number 4], Srila Prabhupada, we think that you cannot leave us very soon. [Disciple starts using "we," 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada's disciples,, "Very Soon"has the adjective of 'very' shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] Prabhupada: I [personal not impersonal] don't want. But if I [personal not impersonal] am obliged, what can I [personal not impersonal] do? [There are 3 "I" here representing the, Vishnu-Tattva, Panca-Tattva symbols/responsibilities - 2nd I is risk factor (books) and if this goes 3rd I (ritvik) is also risked] Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want. Prabhupada: A realized soul [personal not impersonal], must be. [This is the 1st "must be"- relates to Srila Prabhupada with the 1st being "Our translations must be documents." Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D will not help. [Not imitate 5 in 1 or 5 that is against the Amara Ajnaya Instrument / thus Srila Prabhupada signals the status of Srila Prabhupada being the prophesized a self-effulgent initiating guru permamnt and eternal and tells the disciples not to imitate this position via books, recordings or initiating diksa gurus] My [personal not impersonal] purports are liked by people because it is presented as practical experience. [personalism/also signals perhaps Gaudiya Math 'practical' experiences after disappearance of 5 in 1 SBBT in the disunity and divide of property, literature and disciples amongst the senior disciples with preaching decrease due to lack of 5 concept internal, external and internal-external and Srila Prabhupada is the self-effulgent prophesized thus 5 concept - internal, external and internal-external] (aside It is within the mouth. [importance of practical experience - Srila Prabhupada's mass market way versus 'hindu, ' preplanned versus random/ "liked" words sounds like 'licked' signalling catholic and "mouth" link. Also it represents the individual or one initiating spiritual master for the universe that is predicted not group style that is foolish in comparison to the way that is united-unconfusedl-individual initiating guru-one logistics supply chain line leading to peoples mouths. Shows 'objective' for Srila Prabhupada precisely associating with Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya to make the 'purpose' to work. The link with "mouth" also suggests poisoning of Srila Prabhupada via "mouth" with the suspect of christian symbol of cross being involved triggered by the 'horizontal' and 'vertical' concepts in Japa Meditation (2002), choice of what type order Amara Ajnaya Order is, horizontal or vertical and conclusion is horizontal and the conflict in the Hare Krishna Movement because of this. "Realized soul" represents practical experience that is represented by a thing that goes into/must enter a "mouth" that is represented by an instrument (Krishna's Amara Ajnaya Order - Internal-External (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) concretized into an instrument and personalized). The famous instrument of Krishna is His personal transcendental flute-thus the flute represents experience-this instrument is passed to others to play too-thus use of these words in quotations and inverted commas to suggest extrapolation: 'acts'-'acting' acharya/ritvik/"officiating acharya"-"regular guru"-"not ordinary"-"documents"- are used in the Conversation with the bogus instrument not required-one flute that represents bona fide.] Bhavananda: I'm sorry. Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [5 in 1 and 5], (laughter) that it must enter into the mouth. [Ideas about the "mouth" can be stormed here --"I" and "My Disciple" are the emanators of the books and recording, ISKCON is the "mouth" for BBT publishing unit-ISKCON temples are inputted with the output of BBT, any other output from others is not emanating from Srila Prabhupada and thus is to kept away due to it being bogus. The "mouth" symbolises the centrality of for example: the (a) broadcaster, (b) television and (c) viewer with the 'objective' for precision matching docking connection to make the 'purpose' to work. Krishna's Pastimes record a failed attempt to poison of Krishna by Putana, the female demon, that resulted in Krishna killing Putana. Similarly, there was a failed attempt to kill Srila Prabhupada by some of the coup disciples with most of them falling down - the tamas/ignorant nature of coup disciples triggered them to poison Srila Prabhupada. The word "mouth" also signals: catholic / christian opposition to Krishna Consciousness, "my translation(disciple, purports)," dentistry/den-tistry with bias by dogmatic secretive professional types / opposition by material secret fraternity, Srila Prabhupada's medication to solve mankind's problems , importance of logistics-supply chain in Krishna Consciousness, books and recordings, instrument of flute, instrument versus internet viruses, Universes that there when Krishna opens his "mouth" and also shown to Advaita Acarya, the 3rd Column in the Panca-Tattva table (see Japa Meditation, 2002) by Lord Caitanya (see Appendix). Thus the "mouth" is quite important and this reflects the powerful determination of Srila Prabhupada to spread Krishna Consciousness] Then it will act. [signal of officiating or acting acharyas responsible for logistics supply chain to peoples mouths and also Srila Prabhupada's words matching precisely Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya] That kind of instrument not required. [not imitate that is a A-B-C-D instrument, Not imitate 5 in 1or trespass the columns of Amara Ajnaya Instrument, Not imitate Srila Prabhupada's realization, not use bad instruments, new non-SP / non-5 in 1 or non-fiveization or non-universal guru form books not required in BBT or ISKCON) It must remain three miles off. Our [team-personal not impersonal] translation [purports, disciples, Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order] must be documents. ["be" - the seed word to "become/s" shows importance of the books and recordings of Srila Prabhupada for him to "be" functioning as the sole permanent eternal diksha guru. This is the 2nd "must be" relates to books/recordings with the 1st being "A realized soul, must be." Documents= suggest the word doctor, a doctor represents 3 university degrees - called doctor with there being 3 letters for the GBC - the Governing Body Commission of ISKCON or Hare Krishna Movement that is there to make sure documents not myths. Even the coup disciples motive to poison Srila Prabhupada also became documented in this conversation due to Yoga Maya] They are not ordinary [Not non-fiveization translations]... One [Set of books or 1 person via the set of books] cannot become [5 in 1 Gaudiya Vaisnava Diksha Guru or new set of perfect books] unless one [Self] is very realized. ['very' is GOD HIMSELF - the next avatar of Krishna is Kalki avatar that appears later in the Age of quarrel and hypocracy or Kali] It is not A-B-C-D translation. [not a bogus Ravana demon (opposite to Lord Rama) 5 in 1] Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship. Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One [Self] can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [The "Very" and the "Grand"], he (See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1) can become guru. Or one [Self] who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he [See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1] can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums) - [5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples that have trespassed the columns of Srila Prabhupada's Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order instead of being subordinate to it (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003) It appears that in the May 28 1977 Conversation Srila Prabhupada talking in 3 ways: Internal, External and Internal-External. (1) - Internal through use of words such as "our" and "we" and "our translations" and "our disciples." (2) - External through use of words of "One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru." (3) - Internal-Externally through use of words "A B C D" , "liked by people", 'enter mouth then it will act' "documents" that tell the magnificence of SP books/translations/purports, extrapolated into initiation, disciples and purports, not "A B C D." On one hand Srila Prabhupada is incredibly defending his 5 IN 1 and his initiating/diksa guru service and product legacy to survive permanently in the future in comparison to any others except Krishna personally and on the other hand he is wanting his disciples to become gurus. These two views need compromising and the question and subsequent answer to what sort of gurus, Srila Prabupada wants his disciples to function is siksa or instructing gurus. This agrees with all three previous studies: Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003).] Satsvarupa: That's all the questions [Should the BBT publish new books not translated by Srila Prabhupada and hence Srila Prabhupada books overwritten? No - ".....One cannot become unless one is very realized....." Srila Prabhupada May 28 1977 "very realized" refers to Krishna because May 28 1977 is coded, see Japa Meditation 2002 and Knowledge Management 2003] HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ........... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. |
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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 2 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ....../Cont'd Finding 2: The Universal Guru Form We can see above in Finding 1, that Srila Prabhupada is 5 Alive in the Amara Ajnaya Order, Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) with the 5 Alive Features in the 5 Columns (Japa Meditation, 2002) signalled in May 28 1977 Conversation and is deciphered to Universal Guru Form and can be compared to an extent due to some commonality, with the Universal Form of Krishna seen in Srila Prabhupada's original Bhagavad-gita as It Is, Chapter 11. The 'commonality' is that both the Universal Form of Krishna and Universal Guru Form of Prabhupada represent the different 'Entities' in their variety being present in 'Orderly Way' that are linked to the 'Original Source' or 'Personality' either personally or in some other relationship with the individuality of Krishna and Prabhupada not being trespassed. Universal Forms & Krishna Please note that the author is not a devotee scholar and so this part is condensed, simplified and extrapolated to the points that are connected to this study. Thus to commence with Universal Forms & Krishna, relates to the Original Personality of Godhead, Krishna, Who also appears as Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva. Points: 1. Universal Form/s is in 'sub-set' in Krishna Pastimes (the 'eternal set') - there to symbolize that Krishna is God Himself. Universal Form (UF) is a composite image of His Universal actions. Also it is an identity test for any rascal that says they are God. The Krishna Pastimes (KP) are happening eternally from time immemorial in different planet and universes. KP={UF, KP1, 2, 3 etc} 2. Krishna Pastimes are in 'sub-set' of Universal Form (the 'eternal set') - Each component of Krishna Pastimes are and can be/were witnessed in the Universal Form because it is 'Universal.' The Universal Form represents the eternal with past, present and future of everything being presented there. UF= {KP1, 2, 3, Other UF things1, 2, 3 etc} 3. The acinta beda beda tattva principle is invoked - in relation to the Universal Form and Krishna Pastimes due to the inverse mirror image between (1) and (2) above, that they cancel each other out like an algebraic equation. By this it is meant that the concept of 'sub-set' and 'eternal-set' cancel each other and you are left with non-remainders of Krishna Pastimes and Universal Form components because outside (eternal-set) and inside (sub-set) for KP or UF does not make any difference to them for functioning with the source of KP or UF being the same, Krishna. KP1={UF, KP Part 1, 2, 3 etc} UF= {KP, KP2, KP3, Other UF things} "Krishna Caitanya is Krsna. That was observed by Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya. He composed one hundred verses praising the glories of Lord Caitanya, but because Caitanya Mahaprabhu was playing the part of a devotee, He thrown away the slokas, because "This is not for Me." That was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's humbleness. But the devotees know that Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself. Sri-krsna-caitanya radha-krsna nahe anya. Radha-Krsna combination of Sri Caitanya... Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu means Radha and Krsna combined..........God is one. Eka-brahma dvitiya nasti. There cannot be many Gods. So when God, Krsna, wants to enjoy His pleasure potency, that is Radharani. So He manifests Himself, manifests His energy... His energy and He, there is no difference. Sakti-saktimator abhedah. The sastra says sakti and the saktimat--means one who possesses the sakti (sakti means power, potency)--they are equal. There is no difference. Just like the sun. Sun is the powerful, and the sunshine is the power. So there is heat in the sun and there is heat also in the sunshine. There is light in the sun and there is light in the sunshine also. Therefore qualitatively they are one so far heat and light is concerned. But the temperature of the sun and the temperature of the sunshine may be different. May be not. Actually there is difference. This is the basic principle of all philosophies. Acintya-bhedabheda. Acintya means inconceivable, bheda means different, and abheda means nondifferent. The whole situation... The one is there, God, but He has expanded Himself in different way. Eko bahu syam." (750325CC.MAY Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.1 Mayapur, March 25, 1975 His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada) 4. Types of Universal Guru Form - It is said that the Master is Krishna and the Servant is Guru. "My Dear Isana and Vibhavati, Please accept my blessings. Lately there has been some misunderstanding amongst our devotees about our Krishna Consciousness philosophy. Particularly there has been some confusion about the relationship between the Spiritual Master and Krishna. The Vedas say that there is a Master Krishna. This Servant Krishna is the Spiritual Master and this is the conclusion. The Spiritual Master is the Mercy Representative of the Supreme Lord and as such He is given honor as good as Krishna, but He is never identical with Krishna. Perhaps you know the picture of Madhvacarya, one of the great Acaryas in our line, who is holding two fingers up to indicate Krishna and jiva. The impersonalists hold up one finger because their idea is that everything is one. So if we make the Spiritual Master identical with Krishna, then we will also become impersonalists. If we say that our Spiritual Master is Krishna, then the conclusion is that if we become Spiritual Master some day, then we will also become Krishna. Please try to understand how dangerous this kind of reasoning is. In my books I have tried to explain clearly this simultaneously one and different philosophy acinta beda beda tattva propounded by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu. But sometimes it happens that this philosophy is given a self-interested interpretation. As soon as personal motivation comes in it is not possible for one to understand our Krishna Consciousness philosophy." (S.P. Letter to: Isana, Vibhavati Calcutta 21 September, 1970) " Therefore Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura..., saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastraih: "All the sastras, the spiritual master is accepted as directly Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," because he is carrying directly the message of Hari. Then again it is explained... Then Mayavadi will say, "Then I am God. Because I am carrying the message of Krsna, therefore I am Krsna." No. Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya. Not that he has become Prabhu, or God, but he is very dear servitor. Kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya. Because He is carrying an important message, therefore he is very confidential. And because he is very confidential servitor, he is not different from Him. Suppose if I ask somebody to do something very confidential, so that means he is identical with me, because otherwise, how can I trust? Therefore it is clear, not like Mayavadis, that "Because I have been deputed by Krsna to carry some message," not that I have become. But I am equal because the business is the same. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja, and the spiritual master says the same thing, sarva-dharman parityajya: "Just surrender to Krsna." Therefore, message being the same, they are identical. The persons are identical. But not identical in the Mayavadi sense, that he has become now God. No. He is not God, but he is the most confidential servant of God. This is Vaisnava philosophy. Because spiritual master has to be accepted, saksad-dhari, directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore the so-called spiritual master should not be puffed up, that "Now I have become God." This is Mayavada. This is rascaldom. He is most confidential servant of God, Krsna. Therefore the disciple accepts him as good as God. Therefore the conclusion is simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bhedabheda. Bheda, different, means the spiritual master is a confidential servant, or the servant God. To the disciple he is servant God. Just like in Christian philosophy, they say, "The father and the son, the same." Is it not? Yes. So similarly, here the father and son, or the spiritual master and God, they are same, but at the same time not same. It is simultaneous." (Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture 2.9.7 Tokyo, April 24, 1972) In the Universal Guru Form there are also 2 sorts of Forms that can be classified into the following: 1. Krishnaization of the Guru-Tattva. This refers to the parampara or disciplic succession before Lord Caitanya. 2. Caitanyaization of the Guru-Tattva. This refers to the parampara or disciplic succession during and after the Advent of Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva There is an obvious difference here because with Krishnaization of the Guru-Tattva, the facsimile template in the Guru-Tattva was Krishna Himself, the Original Personality of Godhead and there could only be oneization of the Guru-Tattva. However with Caitanyaization of the Guru-Tattva, the facsimile template in the Guru-Tattva was Panca (5)-Tattva (Truths) - God in His 5 Features (see Japa Meditation, 2002). It was internal and carried securely in the parampara and then there was transformation or metamorphosis, internal-external from Srila Prabhupada (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) evidenced in the May 28 1977 Conversation. The 'opportunity' for transformation or the Universal Form of Guru was really only available in the Caitanyaization of the Guru-Tattva due to the Fiveization. The advent of technology in the Western World made this Universal Guru Form possible due to Srila Prabhupada being photographed, recorded, filmed, world-wide travelled, documented and mass-literatureized. Krishna Himself had planned the technology in the West to make this happen. There is thus going to always be some use of technology for Srila Prabhupada and with increase in popularity in Krishna Consciousness the technology will be directed and controlled properly rather than demonically. This is also proves that Srila Prabhupada is the Current Initiating / Diksha Spiritual Master permanently and eternally till humanity remains humanity. AVAILABLE AT http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 --Caitanyaization / Fiveization of Guru-Tattva: Srila Prabhupada's Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order With "Universal Guru Form" for ISKCON & BBT / Disciples of Srila Prabhupada / Occupants of ISKCON & BBT / Humanity, Based on May 28 1977 Conversation-- Table Index: Yellow bar represents deciphered keywords from May 28 1977 Conversation. LC=Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, LN=Lord Nityananda Prabhu, SAA=Sri Advaita Acarya Prabhu, SG=Sri Gadadhra Prabhu, SV=Srinivasa Prabhu (Adapted from Japa Meditation, 2002) ...... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. ----- Codey Ramone wrote: "amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 1 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. Introduction: Let me say from the start of my essay that I am not a devotee-scholar and I wrote this essay because of my interest in His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada a spiritual-guru, who founded in the US the Hare Krishna Movement and made it into a household name. Actually this essay carries on from a series of essays that to put it mildly were revolutionary. These were from Gio Vani, Japa Meditation and Knowledge Management 108: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Process: I began to keep for my ready reference the famous May 28 1977 Conversation in the Hare Krishna Movement that both Japa Mediation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) essays were about. Based on these essays I tried to delve more into the Conversation, till I picked a sentence that I found exciting and challenging similar to deciphering stimulus that I liked in the above three essays. Thus there was more deciphering work that needed doing and so this essay is a continuation from these revolutionary (mild word) essays. In fact, I made the eye-opening words that I found special, "amongst our disciples," of Srila Prabhupada, part of the title of this essay. These words represent the Universal Guru Form. Obviously Srila Prabhupada is not saying that his disciples are also belonging also to some other of his disciples. It thus suggests that "our disciples" is being told by Srila Prabhupada because of the Founder's presence in all the columns of fiveization or the Amara Ajnaya Order, see Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003) and that is also hence the Universal Guru Form. Presentation: I have presented the essay in an informal style. This is not to say that I want to short-change the work or that academic styles do not have merit. Quite the reverse, I want to make my points felt clearly and succinctly to the reader. Finding 1: 5 Alive Brand for Prabhupada, 2nd & 3rd Alive Brand for disciples I wanted to show the way I have arrived at some of my findings relating to The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation, so I have copied the Conversation below and inside square parenthesis in blue font italics, I have inserted my findings where I thought appropriate. Also I have bolded some words to tell or indicate their importance per se or in the findings within the square parenthesis. In case you want to look at this Conversation without the comments and findings, please go to the Appendices section. Please note that the findings here need to be seen with Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management (2003) essays. Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up [this signals establishing of the 'fixed' disciplic succession with Srila Prabhupada being the sole permanent eternal initiating spiritual master till humanity remains humanity as opposed to 'variable' disciplic succession] I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s). Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes. Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the... Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru. Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf. Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana, (he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order. Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples. Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa to, whose disciple are they? Prabhupada: They are his disciple. Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple. Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple. Satsvarupa: Yes. Tamala Krsna: That's clear. Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer... Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just see). Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in the future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally [Keywords are personal, reconfirmation of context and not impersonal at all] see these translations? [Keywords have the 3 'see' words and singular 'you' and also "personally see" context is not impersonal but personal context] Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly. [the " you" of Japa Meditation (2002), see essay chart/s] Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT could publish it. [Srila Prabhupada's books are bona fide Vedic reference-Srila Prabhupada understands like this in his answer - any other vedic books are not bona fide, BBT is Prabhupada's and bona fide] Prabhupada: That we [this is 'team-personal' not impersonal] are doing [thus this keep doing], just like Hindi. We ['team-personal' not impersonal] are doing other languages. [Thus this keep doing, Nothing / what is new] If it is properly translated, it can be... [Nothing / what is new. Use of "we" and also "our" (see later) signalling ' team.' Automatically 'team' also signal the Panca-Tattva, but note, Srila Prabhupada is not talking to himself in a 5-in-1 way excluding disciples from "we" and "our." Srila Prabhupada's answer is personal to his books not someone else books and is based on present. The communication of Srila Prabhupada is Internal-External (see Knowledge Management 108, 2003) basis with (a) 5 in 1 Srila Prabhupada and also (b) 1 in 5 Srila Prabhupada. i.e. acinta beda beda tattva - "inconceivably simultaneously one and different" philosophy - also this answer is for the futu "we are doing" thus Srila Prabhupada is present in spiritual state permanently when not present physical state and the "doing" is because of Srila Prabhupada is present permanently thus if Srila Prabhupada is removed by coup and considered not present permanently then BBT and ISKCON are destroyed as they have almost] Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated yourself. [The choice here if Srila Prabhupada not personally see - How to insure in the future? Either: No Change to books/initiation system or there has to told the Concept/Test that has to match - with answer of No Change to books/initiation system being the conclusion in the May 28 1977 Conversation ] Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation, [signals also to "my purports," "my disciple[s]" - and is personalized] another person translating into Hindi or other languages, we ['team-personal' not impersonal] are publishing. [Nothings / what is new] Similarly, if somebody [body based language] has translated properly, it can be published. [Nothings / What's ne] But amongst our ['team-personal' not impersonal] disciples, [IMPORTANT: UNDERLINED WORDS signals UNIVERSAL GURU FORM (SEE FINDINGS), similar to Krishna showing in the Bhagavad-gita His Universal Form to Arjuna however are in the time/place/circumstance a Guru-Tattva level and implemented within the Conversation in a coded way for safety so that the records were not destroyed by the coup disciples. The Amara Ajnaya Verse Order is Fiveization (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) and so to speak 'Universalization' (also symbolize the way to transcend the material realm) of Srila Prabhupada in this Fiveization/Presence/Association in each of 5 columns (Japa Meditation, 2002) - instead of localization into only "I" OR "MY" columns - thus Srila Prabhupada is saying "OUR"/"WE" because 5 entities are present. Also this represents the order of total Parampara was carried in a secure way for 'FIVEIZATION' (Thus there is use of words "ONE" and "INSTRUMENT" in the Conversation). The ownership and control of Amara Ajanya Order/ISKCON-BBT-Ritvik disciples--Other disciples are part of the AMARA AJNAYA INSTRUMENT, THE DIVINE PRABHUPADA SONG and the responsibility of disciples is to keep the instrument functioning. This also represents the total control and domination via Yoga-Maya, an alternative to the hellish Maya style via secret material fraternity informally and formally. "Our disciples" and later "Our translations" and extrapolately 'Our Purports' - this is a clue - the 5 in 1 and also 5 way for Srila Prabhupada though his disciples, future disciples and living humanity and other living entities are localized into particular columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Obviously some of Srila Prabhupada's disciples in this conversation also (via coup) had/have turned into initiating spiritual masters, translators or purporters was totally evil. This simultaneous oneness and difference in the columns (see Japa Meditation, 2002) ground-breaking because internal and internal-external and also for future the spiritual management view for ISKCON and BBT] I don't think there are many who can translate properly. [Words extrapolated or those that are not e.g. "my translation," " my disciple," 'my purports' are obviously personal to Srila Prabhupada and not impersonal concept, especially because of words "we" and "our"] Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the BBT. [Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and the adjective of "highest" shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] The name BBT means the highest standard right now in the world. [Nothing other than Srila Prabhupada then and disciple starts using "we" and Srila Prabhupada likes answer. There is also a risk that evil disciple/s can overstep the mark by trespassing into 'no go' columns (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003). Thus the clash of 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples on Srila Prabhupada's FIELD of UNIVERSAL GURU FORM, see Bhagavad-gita and Kauaravas army discussions on the Battlefield of Kurukshetra. Then the concept of 'world'used by the disciple with Srila Prabhupada saying "'mouth" signal the catholic symbol, possibly signalling the world conspiracy with the disciple's name having the word Ram - in November 1977, Srila Prabhupada tells of a clip from the Rama/Ravana story of war and battle between good and evil. Also, the same disciple's name has sound of war, Var - perhaps symbolizing the Internal-External unified war against Maya/Illusion. From this part of the Conversation starts the importance of Srila Prabhupada's books and also recordings, the no change to this and hence parampara sections in Srila Prabhupada's books as otherwise they would change into non-Srila Prabhupada books and recordings] Prabhupada: That is good answer. [Best decision of the future do not publish anything not Srila Prabhupada's own] Kirtanananda: Therefore [number 4], Srila Prabhupada, we think that you cannot leave us very soon. [Disciple starts using "we," 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada's disciples,, "Very Soon"has the adjective of 'very' shows hate of disciple towards Srila Prabhupada] Prabhupada: I [personal not impersonal] don't want. But if I [personal not impersonal] am obliged, what can I [personal not impersonal] do? [There are 3 "I" here representing the, Vishnu-Tattva, Panca-Tattva symbols/responsibilities - 2nd I is risk factor (books) and if this goes 3rd I (ritvik) is also risked] Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want. Prabhupada: A realized soul [personal not impersonal], must be. [This is the 1st "must be"- relates to Srila Prabhupada with the 1st being "Our translations must be documents." Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D will not help. [Not imitate 5 in 1 or 5 that is against the Amara Ajnaya Instrument / thus Srila Prabhupada signals the status of Srila Prabhupada being the prophesized a self-effulgent initiating guru permamnt and eternal and tells the disciples not to imitate this position via books, recordings or initiating diksa gurus] My [personal not impersonal] purports are liked by people because it is presented as practical experience. [personalism/also signals perhaps Gaudiya Math 'practical' experiences after disappearance of 5 in 1 SBBT in the disunity and divide of property, literature and disciples amongst the senior disciples with preaching decrease due to lack of 5 concept internal, external and internal-external and Srila Prabhupada is the self-effulgent prophesized thus 5 concept - internal, external and internal-external] (aside It is within the mouth. [importance of practical experience - Srila Prabhupada's mass market way versus 'hindu, ' preplanned versus random/ "liked" words sounds like 'licked' signalling catholic and "mouth" link. Also it represents the individual or one initiating spiritual master for the universe that is predicted not group style that is foolish in comparison to the way that is united-unconfusedl-individual initiating guru-one logistics supply chain line leading to peoples mouths. Shows 'objective' for Srila Prabhupada precisely associating with Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya to make the 'purpose' to work. The link with "mouth" also suggests poisoning of Srila Prabhupada via "mouth" with the suspect of christian symbol of cross being involved triggered by the 'horizontal' and 'vertical' concepts in Japa Meditation (2002), choice of what type order Amara Ajnaya Order is, horizontal or vertical and conclusion is horizontal and the conflict in the Hare Krishna Movement because of this. "Realized soul" represents practical experience that is represented by a thing that goes into/must enter a "mouth" that is represented by an instrument (Krishna's Amara Ajnaya Order - Internal-External (Knowledge Management 108, 2003) concretized into an instrument and personalized). The famous instrument of Krishna is His personal transcendental flute-thus the flute represents experience-this instrument is passed to others to play too-thus use of these words in quotations and inverted commas to suggest extrapolation: 'acts'-'acting' acharya/ritvik/"officiating acharya"-"regular guru"-"not ordinary"-"documents"- are used in the Conversation with the bogus instrument not required-one flute that represents bona fide.] Bhavananda: I'm sorry. Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [5 in 1 and 5], (laughter) that it must enter into the mouth. [Ideas about the "mouth" can be stormed here --"I" and "My Disciple" are the emanators of the books and recording, ISKCON is the "mouth" for BBT publishing unit-ISKCON temples are inputted with the output of BBT, any other output from others is not emanating from Srila Prabhupada and thus is to kept away due to it being bogus. The "mouth" symbolises the centrality of for example: the (a) broadcaster, (b) television and (c) viewer with the 'objective' for precision matching docking connection to make the 'purpose' to work. Krishna's Pastimes record a failed attempt to poison of Krishna by Putana, the female demon, that resulted in Krishna killing Putana. Similarly, there was a failed attempt to kill Srila Prabhupada by some of the coup disciples with most of them falling down - the tamas/ignorant nature of coup disciples triggered them to poison Srila Prabhupada. The word "mouth" also signals: catholic / christian opposition to Krishna Consciousness, "my translation(disciple, purports)," dentistry/den-tistry with bias by dogmatic secretive professional types / opposition by material secret fraternity, Srila Prabhupada's medication to solve mankind's problems , importance of logistics-supply chain in Krishna Consciousness, books and recordings, instrument of flute, instrument versus internet viruses, Universes that there when Krishna opens his "mouth" and also shown to Advaita Acarya, the 3rd Column in the Panca-Tattva table (see Japa Meditation, 2002) by Lord Caitanya (see Appendix). Thus the "mouth" is quite important and this reflects the powerful determination of Srila Prabhupada to spread Krishna Consciousness] Then it will act. [signal of officiating or acting acharyas responsible for logistics supply chain to peoples mouths and also Srila Prabhupada's words matching precisely Krishna's Fiveization Order of Amara Ajnaya] That kind of instrument not required. [not imitate that is a A-B-C-D instrument, Not imitate 5 in 1or trespass the columns of Amara Ajnaya Instrument, Not imitate Srila Prabhupada's realization, not use bad instruments, new non-SP / non-5 in 1 or non-fiveization or non-universal guru form books not required in BBT or ISKCON) It must remain three miles off. Our [team-personal not impersonal] translation [purports, disciples, Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order] must be documents. ["be" - the seed word to "become/s" shows importance of the books and recordings of Srila Prabhupada for him to "be" functioning as the sole permanent eternal diksha guru. This is the 2nd "must be" relates to books/recordings with the 1st being "A realized soul, must be." Documents= suggest the word doctor, a doctor represents 3 university degrees - called doctor with there being 3 letters for the GBC - the Governing Body Commission of ISKCON or Hare Krishna Movement that is there to make sure documents not myths. Even the coup disciples motive to poison Srila Prabhupada also became documented in this conversation due to Yoga Maya] They are not ordinary [Not non-fiveization translations]... One [Set of books or 1 person via the set of books] cannot become [5 in 1 Gaudiya Vaisnava Diksha Guru or new set of perfect books] unless one [Self] is very realized. ['very' is GOD HIMSELF - the next avatar of Krishna is Kalki avatar that appears later in the Age of quarrel and hypocracy or Kali] It is not A-B-C-D translation. [not a bogus Ravana demon (opposite to Lord Rama) 5 in 1] Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship. Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One [Self] can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [The "Very" and the "Grand"], he (See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1) can become guru. Or one [Self] who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he [See Japa Mediation 2003 - He#1] can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums) - [5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada VS. 5 IN 1 Srila Prabhupada disciples that have trespassed the columns of Srila Prabhupada's Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order instead of being subordinate to it (See Japa Meditation, 2002 and Knowledge Management 108, 2003) It appears that in the May 28 1977 Conversation Srila Prabhupada talking in 3 ways: Internal, External and Internal-External. (1) - Internal through use of words such as "our" and "we" and "our translations" and "our disciples." (2) - External through use of words of "One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he (Japa Mediation He#1) can become guru." (3) - Internal-Externally through use of words "A B C D" , "liked by people", 'enter mouth then it will act' "documents" that tell the magnificence of SP books/translations/purports, extrapolated into initiation, disciples and purports, not "A B C D." On one hand Srila Prabhupada is incredibly defending his 5 IN 1 and his initiating/diksa guru service and product legacy to survive permanently in the future in comparison to any others except Krishna personally and on the other hand he is wanting his disciples to become gurus. These two views need compromising and the question and subsequent answer to what sort of gurus, Srila Prabupada wants his disciples to function is siksa or instructing gurus. This agrees with all three previous studies: Gio Vani (2001), Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003).] Satsvarupa: That's all the questions [Should the BBT publish new books not translated by Srila Prabhupada and hence Srila Prabhupada books overwritten? No - ".....One cannot become unless one is very realized....." Srila Prabhupada May 28 1977 "very realized" refers to Krishna because May 28 1977 is coded, see Japa Meditation 2002 and Knowledge Management 2003] HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada .......... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. |
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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 4 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ....../Cont'd TEXT 32 PURPORT ".........Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth destroys everything, even Brahma." [The Hare Krishna Movement is a battle against illusion through the congregational chanting. With the Universal Guru Form that is an essential component it decreases and destroys illusion and so illusion-supporters are fearful of the progress of the Hare Krishna Movement and disguise themselves as devotees, outside the movement they could be part of an formal, informal, conscious, unconscious, positioned, unpositioned secret material fraternal that tries to pollute religiosity] TEXT 33 PURPORT "......... "Just become an instrument": nimitta-matram. This word is also very significant. The whole world is moving according to the plan of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Foolish persons who do not have sufficient knowledge think that nature is moving without a plan and all manifestations are but accidental formations. There are many so-called scientists who suggest that perhaps it was like this, or maybe like that, but there is no question of "perhaps" and "maybe." There is a specific plan being carried out in this material world. What is this plan? This cosmic manifestation is a chance for the conditioned souls to go back to Godhead, back to home. As long as they have the domineering mentality which makes them try to lord it over material nature, they are conditioned. But anyone who can understand the plan of the Supreme Lord and cultivate Krsna consciousness is most intelligent. The creation and destruction of the cosmic manifestation are under the superior guidance of God. Thus the Battle of Kuruksetra was fought according to the plan of God........" [The Universal Guru Form being there and being deciphered in 2004 for the first time since May 28 1977 Conversation is also not a coincidence] [There is also plan of demonic beings that try to thwart the plan of Krishna by for example suppressing the Universal Guru Form or unsuccessfully try to poison again this time the spiritually present Srila Prabhupada for everyone] [The Universal Guru Form is important for going Back to Godhead] [The plan of Krishna is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada the sole permanent eternal diksha initiating spiritual master for the universe] [The Universal Form revelation in Kurukshetra is linked to the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order and template that Srila Prabhupada has followed, there is thus new evidence supporting the Advent of Lord Caitanya with the diksha iniating spiritual master, current permanent eternal link, Srila Prabhupada in the Gaudiya-Vaisnava disciplic succession revealing His Universal Guru Form too albeit on a scale of Guru not God and this is bona fide for humanity, till humanity remains humanity] TEXT 34 PURPORT "........ Life should therefore move in such a way that everyone acts in Krsna consciousness and understands the Supreme Personality of Godhead through the medium of a spiritual master. The plans of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are understood by His mercy, and the plans of the devotees are as good as His plans. One should follow such plans and be victorious in the struggle for existence." [Thus the plan of Krishna is for the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada for this planet and the universe to allow everyone to become fully Krishna Consciousness by following and taking diksha initiation from Srila Prabhupada. Without the Universal Guru Form there is no hope for becoming really Krishna Consciousness] TEXT 36 PURPORT "Arjuna, after hearing from Krsna about the outcome of the Battle of Kuruksetra, became an enlightened devotee of the Supreme Lord. He admitted that everything done by Krsna is quite fit. Arjuna confirmed that Krsna is the maintainer and the object of worship for the devotees and the destroyer of the undesirables. His actions are equally good for all. Arjuna understood herein that when the Battle of Kuruksetra was being concluded, in outer space there were present many demigods, siddhas, and the intelligentsia of the higher planets, and they were observing the fight because Krsna was present there. When Arjuna saw the universal form of the Lord, the demigods took pleasure in it, but others, who were demons and atheists, could not stand it when the Lord was praised. Out of their natural fear of the devastating form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they fled. Krsna's treatment of the devotees and the atheists is praised by Arjuna. In all cases a devotee glorifies the Lord because he knows that whatever He does is good for all." [Enlightenment is an objective of this essay so that people become successful in their spiritual development and Krishna Consciousness] [This should signal to us in our revelation that we also respect Srila Prabhupada's Universal Guru Form and that Srila Prabhupada is our well-wisher] [This revelation of Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada is also being Witnessed by Krishna and His Management, thus we should make sure that we follow the Universal Guru Form and immediately bona fide-ize the Hare Krishna Movement so it taken away from hands of coup disciples and their supporters] [The Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada will no doubt scare the demonic people] TEXT 41-42 PURPORT "......... Arjuna did not know how many times he may have dishonored Him by addressing Him as "O my friend," "O Krsna," "O Yadava," etc., without acknowledging His opulence. But Krsna is so kind and merciful that in spite of such opulence He played with Arjuna as a friend. Such is the transcendental loving reciprocation between the devotee and the Lord........" [Obviously this is no way suggests that suppressing of the Universal Guru Form or poisoning the physical body and then attempt to poison the spiritual presence of Srila Prabhupada by the coup disciples and their supporters is the same when in fact it is a total crime based on this planet and the spiritual laws of Krishna] TEXT 43 PURPORT "......no one is equal to or higher than Krsna within any manifestation, spiritual or material. Everyone is below Him. No one can excel Him.........Everyone is complying with His order. There is no one who can deny His order. ......." [These words should signal for the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada that no one in the Universal Guru Form is equal or higher than Srila Prabhupada and is the sole permanent eternal spiritual master. Only Krishna can take-over from Srila Prabhupada. Thus everyone trying to become Krishna Consciousness should follow the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order of Srila Prabhupada that is being followed by him based on the template of Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva] TEXT 47 TRANSLATION PURPORT "....... No one had seen this universal form of the Lord before Arjuna, but because the form was shown to Arjuna, other devotees in the heavenly planets and in other planets in outer space could also see it. They did not seen it before, but because of Arjuna they were able to see it. ......" [There is some linkage here because it is also possible that the Universal Guru Form perhaps has not been seen by anyone before. The Universal Guru Form was recorded on May 28 1977 and the Universal Guru Form has not been seen in the recording till 2004. However, now with this essay people can see it.] TEXT 48 PURPORT ".....In this verse there are some significant words, like veda-yajnadhyayanaih, which refers to studying Vedic literature and the subject matter of sacrificial regulations. Veda refers to all kinds of Vedic literature, namely the four Vedas (Rg, Yajus, Sama and Atharva) and the eighteen Puranas, the Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra. One can study these at home or anywhere else. ........but unless he is a devotee like Arjuna, it is not possible to see that universal form........." [This should signal in our context of the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada about how important it is to accept spiritual injunctions without them we are on dangerous ground and the objective if bhakti-yoga is never achievable without important criteria being met. A devotee can join or participate in the Hare Krishna Movement for as long as they want however if the Universal Guru Form implementation is not there then accordingly it is not possible to become really Krishna Consciousness] TEXT 49 PURPORT "........now Arjuna wanted to see the four-armed form, and Krsna showed him. A devotee is not much interested in the universal form, for it does not enable one to reciprocate loving feelings. A devotee wants to offer his respectful worshiping feelings; thus he wants to see the two-handed or four-handed Krsna form so he can reciprocate in loving service with the Supreme Personality of Godhead......." [Srila Prabhupada is 2-armed however with the Universal Guru Form is symbolically 10-armed due to the 5 transcendental features and entity roles based on the facsimile of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order. We are looking at Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad-gita to educate ourselves in some linkages that are there due to a transformation revelation. The Panca-Tattva are 10-armed are they are accepted perfectly by pure devotees and thus similarly because Srila Prabhupada is following in their steps should be also accepted. Thus there should not be any confusion because we are looking at linkages and not crude comparisons that are out of context. ] ...... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. ----- Codey Ramone wrote: "amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 3 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ...../Cont'd Finding 3: Inspirational Universal Form words To get some idea of a transformation or metamorphosis of one Form to another and several, I have quoted some pertinent words from Chapter 11, The Universal Form from Srila Prabhupada's original Bhagavad-gita as It Is. Please note that it only being used as a tool of education and some common linkages and is not saying that: 1. the Universal Form is equivalent to the Universal Guru Form 2. the Universal Form and the Universal Guru Form are the same 3. the Meanings of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are exactly same 4. the Features of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are exactly same 5. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form do not take into account Time, Place and Circumstances 6. that the objectives of Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are the same 7. that both Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are there for same amount of time 8. that Universal Form and Universal Guru Form are broadcasted in the same way during and after 9. that Guru is God The common linkages of the Universal Forms and the Universal Guru Form a 1. these words are way of understanding the useful advertising concept of Recall and Recognition of the Universal Guru Form. 2. we should try to re-engineer our thinking, feeling, willing and going processes that have become desensitized by Age of Kali 3. that They are both revelations 4. that there was privacy / secrecy from the Original Source when they happened 5. that evil people conspired and are conspiring against Them 6. that They were and are protected 7. that They show Their immense power and control 8. that there is an organization 9. that They are there to connect the devotee and disciple with Krishna and Guru 10. that Both have been recorded for posterity 11. there is deep meaning and substance to Them 12. that They all reflect the Absolute Law Chapter 11. The Universal Form TEXT 1 PURPORT "..........he is thinking that although he may accept Krsna as the source of everything, others may not. So in order to establish Krsna's divinity for all, he is requesting Krsna in this chapter to show His universal form. Actually when one sees the universal form of Krsna one becomes frightened, like Arjuna, but Krsna is so kind that after showing it He converts Himself again into His original form. Arjuna agrees to what Krsna says several times. Krsna is speaking to him just for his benefit, and Arjuna acknowledges that all this is happening to him by Krsna's grace.........." [The Universal Guru Form was not requested to be shown by the coup disciples in May 28 1977 Conversation, though Srila Prabhupada revealed his form for others and now in 2004 it is being revealed publicly for posterity] [Because Universal Guru Form differs because it is revelation and is a revelation based on the Panca-Tattva then it is not frightening, is completely opposite to frightening and is accepted as a permanent and eternal feature] [Due to the Universal Guru Form, we too should accept Srila Prabhupada's wishes for ritvik initiations after post-November 14 1977] TEXT 3 PURPORT "....... Now as far as Arjuna is concerned, he is inspired by the statements of Krsna, but in order to convince others in the future who may think that Krsna is an ordinary person, he desires to see Him actually in His universal form, to see how He is acting from within the universe, although He is apart from it. Arjuna's asking the Lord's permission is also significant. Since the Lord is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is present within Arjuna himself; therefore He knows the desire of Arjuna, and He can understand that Arjuna has no special desire to see Him in His universal form, for he is completely satisfied to see Him in His personal form of Krsna. But He can understand also that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to convince others. He did not have any personal desire for confirmation. Krsna also understands that Arjuna wants to see the universal form to set a criterion, for in the future there would be so many imposters who would pose themselves as incarnations of God. The people, therefore, should be careful; one who claims to be Krsna should be prepared to show his universal form to confirm his claim to the people." [Disciple and would-be disciples of Srila Prabhupada should also see this the actual position of Srila Prabhupada from His Universal Guru Form . Srila Prabhupada is not an ordinary guru/spiritual master. The Universal Guru Form should further concretize his position as a jagat and sad guru/spiritual. A great personality that will initiate disciples permanently and eternally till humanity is humanity. He is the Universal Guru without any doubt. The diksha spiritual master for the Hare Krishna and Sankirtan Movement permanently and eternally till humanity remains humanity] [Srila Prabhupada can understand the desire of humanity to have a diksha initiating spiritual master for the world and providing the Universal Guru Form to enable this to happen. He also understands through Krishna that some of his disciples will mount a coup that could destroy the Movement and so the Universal Guru Form is presented under the radar of the coup disciples.] [We have seen that in the Hare Krishna Movement since November 14 1977 how much destruction has been carried out by the coup disciples, with rumours of poisoning the physical body of Srila Prabhupada, various by impostors that have taken the position of Srila Prabhupada and committed crimes against children, women, men, animals and finances. Thus the Universal Guru Form is broadcasted so that people thirsty for spiritual development are not cheated] [Srila Prabhupada has shown his Universal Guru Form and because Guru is not God someone else can try to copy the Universal Guru Form, however it will not be possible because there is the principle of the first, winners takes all, finders keepers, spiritual success, one diksha initiating spiritual master for the world, scriptural injunctions and legal documents of Srila Prabhupada etc] TEXT 4 PURPORT "It is said that one can neither see, hear, understand nor perceive the Supreme Lord, Krsna, by the material senses. But if one is engaged in loving transcendental service to the Lord from the beginning, then one can see the Lord by revelation. Every living entity is only a spiritual spark; therefore it is not possible to see or to understand the Supreme Lord. Arjuna, as a devotee, does not depend on his speculative strength; rather, he admits his limitations as a living entity and acknowledges Krsna's inestimable position. Arjuna could understand that for a living entity it is not possible to understand the unlimited infinite. If the infinite reveals Himself, then it is possible to understand the nature of the infinite by the grace of the infinite........Thus it is not possible for persons who depend on the strength of their mental speculations to see Krsna." [The Universal Guru Form was not asked by the coup disciples however Srila Prabhupada made it known in 2004 publicly. We have seen with experience that since November 14 1977. Krishna has revealed the Universal Guru Form to us now. Srila Prabhupada has provided us the intelligence to see the Universal Guru Form] [With this study we hope that people inside and outside the Hare Krishna Movement now see the Universal Guru Form. No effort is required to see the Universal Guru Form, it is presented for the reader in the essay. We too should acknowledge the position of Srila Prabhupada as the universal diksha guru to take humanity Back to Godhead] [This is so true here too because you can see the May 28 1977 Conversation but not be able to decipher the codes due to the coup and poisoning of Srila Prabhupada that Krishna was aware of however now Yoga-Maya had removed the illusionary energy that was hiding this Universal Guru Form and there is this essay that provides information about the Universal Guru Form that is scientific though there is still need to have the capacity to understand the essay that has uncoded the Universal Guru Form] TEXT 5 PURPORT "Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in His universal form, which, although a transcendental form, is just manifested for the cosmic manifestation and is therefore subject to the temporary time of this material nature .........As far as a devotee is concerned, he is not eager to see the universal form, but because Arjuna wanted to see Krsna in this way, Krsna reveals this form........." [This and other statements in the Chapter should help us to feel inspired about spiritual revelations. Srila Prabhupada is not God but there are some linkages, see earlier, that we can learn from. Though the Universal Form is temporary the Panca-Tattva are not temporary and neither are their activities. Due to Srila Prabhupada revelation following the footsteps of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template it is also not temporary] [The Universal Form is scary and not pleasing for the devotee though the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template revelation and hence its meaning of the Universal Guru Form is the complete opposite, it is friendly and loving. It is something that is pleasing that superior for disciples and potential disciples of Srila Prabhupada and spiritual seekers that want the highest Krishna Consciousness, Sankirtan Movement and want to do the most service for Krishna] TEXT 7 PURPORT "No one can see the entire universe sitting in one place. Even the most advanced scientist cannot see what is going on in other parts of the universe. Krsna gives him the power to see anything he wants to see, past, present and future. Thus by the mercy of Krsna, Arjuna is able to see everything." [The Universal Guru Form is complete and you can see all the bona fide spiritual development desires for the spiritual seeker being there and for the Hare Krishna Movement in the future] [By the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, we too can see the Universal Guru Form as mentioned in this essay and we can see it on Srila Prabhupada's 5 Column Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order template and facsimile] TEXT 8 PURPORT ".........Arjuna must confirm this because Arjuna is the beginning of the parampara system. Those who are actually interested to understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna, and who follow in the footsteps of Arjuna should understand that Krsna not only theoretically presented Himself as the Supreme, but actually revealed Himself as the Supreme." [In our context, it is putting the Hare Krishna Movement on a bona fide track viz-a-viz Srila Prabhupada to be reunited as the sole permanent eternal initiating diksha spiritual master for the Hare Krishna Movement. We should having seen the Universal Guru Form now be totally inspired and committed to implement the Universal Guru Form under which we have the ritvik method of initiations] TEXT 12 PURPORT "What Arjuna saw was indescribable, yet Sanjaya is trying to give a mental picture of that great revelation to Dhrtarastra. Neither Sanjaya nor Dhrtarastra was present, but Sanjaya, by the grace of Vyasa, could see whatever happened.........." [Only the coup disciples were present in May 28 1977 Conversation. Only now in 2004, we are seeing the Universal Guru Form, however because it is based on the template of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order the revelation is cognizant, not wondrous and easy to understand] TEXT 13 PURPORT "The word tatra (there) is very significant. It indicates that both Arjuna and Krsna were sitting on the chariot when Arjuna saw the universal form. Others on the battlefield could not see this form because Krsna gave the vision only to Arjuna. Arjuna could see in the body of Krsna many thousands of universes. As we learn from Vedic scriptures, there are many universes and many planets. Some of them are made of earth, some are made of gold, some are made of jewels, some are very great, some are not so great, etc. Sitting on his chariot, Arjuna could see all these universes. But no one could understand what was going on between Arjuna and Krsna." [Only in 2004 is the Universal Guru Form being stated based on the May 28 1977 Conversation when only few coup disciples were talking to Srila Prabhupada. However now everyone can see the Universal Guru Form that the coup disciples could not see because it was coded for posterity. The mention of universes in this purport provides a linkage that the Universal Guru Form is universal. It is not that this Universal Guru Form is only for implementing on this planet but because it is the Absolute Law, the "mouth" it is universal, permanent and eternal based on time, place and circumstances of each planet - the plan of the sankirtan movement] TEXT 28 TRANSLATION "As the rivers flow into the sea, so all these great warriors enter Your blazing mouths and perish." [Text 28 should indicate to us the figure 28 that is common also present in the name of the May 28 1977 Conversation that has become famous in the Hare Krishna Movement. Because the word 'ritvik' was mentioned first by the disciple to Srila Prabhupada it reflects that the coup disciples knew that Srila Prabhupada planned a ritvik initiation system with Srila Prabhupada remaining the sole permanent eternal diksha initiating spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada in this Chapter himself says that there is not such thing as accident or coincidence it is all planned by Krishna. Thus Krishna is telling us here that the coup disciples knew of the ritvik plan of Srila Prabhupada and they poisoned Srila Prabhupada and suppressed the Universal Guru Form. This is shocking is it not. No one should allow any of the coup disciples that were wreckers to become implementers of Universal Guru Form. They damaged the Hare Krishna Movement and humanity for so many years, they should not be allowed to get away with it again and be kept in the movement. Say if someone deliberately tore-off Chapter 11 of Bhagavad-gita As It Is of Srila Prabhupada from all copies and they kept doing this from November 14 1977, they would not be allowed to do this, it would be criminal act of vandalization and they would not be allowed to keep their position. The poisoning would also be very serious and according to the penal code in some countries, for poisoning someone, anyone results in punishment by hanging or the electric chair without any pardon. Now Srila Prabhupada is present spiritually only, should anyone allow Srila Prabhupada's Universal Guru Form to be banned. The punishment for crime of suppressing and poisoning firstly the physical poisoning and now the spiritual poisoning that is happening to Srila Prabhupada should be made severe in this planet and is tremendously severe spiritually] ..... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. ----- |
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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 4 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ....../Cont'd TEXT 32 PURPORT ".........Therefore he asked further about the actual mission of this devastating force. It is written in the Vedas that the Supreme Truth destroys everything, even Brahma." [The Hare Krishna Movement is a battle against illusion through the congregational chanting. With the Universal Guru Form that is an essential component it decreases and destroys illusion and so illusion-supporters are fearful of the progress of the Hare Krishna Movement and disguise themselves as devotees, outside the movement they could be part of an formal, informal, conscious, unconscious, positioned, unpositioned secret material fraternal that tries to pollute religiosity] TEXT 33 PURPORT "......... "Just become an instrument": nimitta-matram. This word is also very significant. The whole world is moving according to the plan of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Foolish persons who do not have sufficient knowledge think that nature is moving without a plan and all manifestations are but accidental formations. There are many so-called scientists who suggest that perhaps it was like this, or maybe like that, but there is no question of "perhaps" and "maybe." There is a specific plan being carried out in this material world. What is this plan? This cosmic manifestation is a chance for the conditioned souls to go back to Godhead, back to home. As long as they have the domineering mentality which makes them try to lord it over material nature, they are conditioned. But anyone who can understand the plan of the Supreme Lord and cultivate Krsna consciousness is most intelligent. The creation and destruction of the cosmic manifestation are under the superior guidance of God. Thus the Battle of Kuruksetra was fought according to the plan of God........" [The Universal Guru Form being there and being deciphered in 2004 for the first time since May 28 1977 Conversation is also not a coincidence] [There is also plan of demonic beings that try to thwart the plan of Krishna by for example suppressing the Universal Guru Form or unsuccessfully try to poison again this time the spiritually present Srila Prabhupada for everyone] [The Universal Guru Form is important for going Back to Godhead] [The plan of Krishna is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada the sole permanent eternal diksha initiating spiritual master for the universe] [The Universal Form revelation in Kurukshetra is linked to the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order and template that Srila Prabhupada has followed, there is thus new evidence supporting the Advent of Lord Caitanya with the diksha iniating spiritual master, current permanent eternal link, Srila Prabhupada in the Gaudiya-Vaisnava disciplic succession revealing His Universal Guru Form too albeit on a scale of Guru not God and this is bona fide for humanity, till humanity remains humanity] TEXT 34 PURPORT "........ Life should therefore move in such a way that everyone acts in Krsna consciousness and understands the Supreme Personality of Godhead through the medium of a spiritual master. The plans of the Supreme Personality of Godhead are understood by His mercy, and the plans of the devotees are as good as His plans. One should follow such plans and be victorious in the struggle for existence." [Thus the plan of Krishna is for the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada for this planet and the universe to allow everyone to become fully Krishna Consciousness by following and taking diksha initiation from Srila Prabhupada. Without the Universal Guru Form there is no hope for becoming really Krishna Consciousness] TEXT 36 PURPORT "Arjuna, after hearing from Krsna about the outcome of the Battle of Kuruksetra, became an enlightened devotee of the Supreme Lord. He admitted that everything done by Krsna is quite fit. Arjuna confirmed that Krsna is the maintainer and the object of worship for the devotees and the destroyer of the undesirables. His actions are equally good for all. Arjuna understood herein that when the Battle of Kuruksetra was being concluded, in outer space there were present many demigods, siddhas, and the intelligentsia of the higher planets, and they were observing the fight because Krsna was present there. When Arjuna saw the universal form of the Lord, the demigods took pleasure in it, but others, who were demons and atheists, could not stand it when the Lord was praised. Out of their natural fear of the devastating form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they fled. Krsna's treatment of the devotees and the atheists is praised by Arjuna. In all cases a devotee glorifies the Lord because he knows that whatever He does is good for all." [Enlightenment is an objective of this essay so that people become successful in their spiritual development and Krishna Consciousness] [This should signal to us in our revelation that we also respect Srila Prabhupada's Universal Guru Form and that Srila Prabhupada is our well-wisher] [This revelation of Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada is also being Witnessed by Krishna and His Management, thus we should make sure that we follow the Universal Guru Form and immediately bona fide-ize the Hare Krishna Movement so it taken away from hands of coup disciples and their supporters] [The Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada will no doubt scare the demonic people] TEXT 41-42 PURPORT "......... Arjuna did not know how many times he may have dishonored Him by addressing Him as "O my friend," "O Krsna," "O Yadava," etc., without acknowledging His opulence. But Krsna is so kind and merciful that in spite of such opulence He played with Arjuna as a friend. Such is the transcendental loving reciprocation between the devotee and the Lord........" [Obviously this is no way suggests that suppressing of the Universal Guru Form or poisoning the physical body and then attempt to poison the spiritual presence of Srila Prabhupada by the coup disciples and their supporters is the same when in fact it is a total crime based on this planet and the spiritual laws of Krishna] TEXT 43 PURPORT "......no one is equal to or higher than Krsna within any manifestation, spiritual or material. Everyone is below Him. No one can excel Him.........Everyone is complying with His order. There is no one who can deny His order. ......." [These words should signal for the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada that no one in the Universal Guru Form is equal or higher than Srila Prabhupada and is the sole permanent eternal spiritual master. Only Krishna can take-over from Srila Prabhupada. Thus everyone trying to become Krishna Consciousness should follow the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order of Srila Prabhupada that is being followed by him based on the template of Lord Caitanya and the Panca-Tattva] TEXT 47 TRANSLATION PURPORT "....... No one had seen this universal form of the Lord before Arjuna, but because the form was shown to Arjuna, other devotees in the heavenly planets and in other planets in outer space could also see it. They did not seen it before, but because of Arjuna they were able to see it. ......" [There is some linkage here because it is also possible that the Universal Guru Form perhaps has not been seen by anyone before. The Universal Guru Form was recorded on May 28 1977 and the Universal Guru Form has not been seen in the recording till 2004. However, now with this essay people can see it.] TEXT 48 PURPORT ".....In this verse there are some significant words, like veda-yajnadhyayanaih, which refers to studying Vedic literature and the subject matter of sacrificial regulations. Veda refers to all kinds of Vedic literature, namely the four Vedas (Rg, Yajus, Sama and Atharva) and the eighteen Puranas, the Upanisads and Vedanta-sutra. One can study these at home or anywhere else. ........but unless he is a devotee like Arjuna, it is not possible to see that universal form........." [This should signal in our context of the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada about how important it is to accept spiritual injunctions without them we are on dangerous ground and the objective if bhakti-yoga is never achievable without important criteria being met. A devotee can join or participate in the Hare Krishna Movement for as long as they want however if the Universal Guru Form implementation is not there then accordingly it is not possible to become really Krishna Consciousness] TEXT 49 PURPORT "........now Arjuna wanted to see the four-armed form, and Krsna showed him. A devotee is not much interested in the universal form, for it does not enable one to reciprocate loving feelings. A devotee wants to offer his respectful worshiping feelings; thus he wants to see the two-handed or four-handed Krsna form so he can reciprocate in loving service with the Supreme Personality of Godhead......." [Srila Prabhupada is 2-armed however with the Universal Guru Form is symbolically 10-armed due to the 5 transcendental features and entity roles based on the facsimile of the Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order. We are looking at Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad-gita to educate ourselves in some linkages that are there due to a transformation revelation. The Panca-Tattva are 10-armed are they are accepted perfectly by pure devotees and thus similarly because Srila Prabhupada is following in their steps should be also accepted. Thus there should not be any confusion because we are looking at linkages and not crude comparisons that are out of context. ] TEXT 50 PURPORT "........The word saumya-vapuh is very significant. Saumya-vapuh is a very beautiful form; it is known as the most beautiful form. When He was present, everyone was attracted simply by Krsna's form, and because Krsna is director of the universe, He just banished the fear of Arjuna, His devotee, and showed him again His beautiful form of Krsna. In the Brahma-samhita it is stated that only a person whose eyes are smeared with the ointment of love can see the beautiful form of Sri Krsna......" [Thus the importance is given to the Form. In our Guru-Tattva context the perfect form is the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada permanently and eternally.] TEXT 54 PURPORT "Krsna can be understood only by the process of undivided devotional service. He explicitly explains this in this verse so unauthorized commentators, who try to understand Bhagavad-gita by the speculative process, will know that they are simply wasting their time. ......if one at all wants to understand Krsna, he must follow the regulative principles described in the authoritative literature......charity should be given to the devotees of Krsna who are engaged in His devotional service to spread the Krsna philosophy or Krsna consciousness throughout the world. ...... For one who does not take personal training under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master, it is impossible to even begin to understand Krsna. The word tu is specifically used here to indicate that no other process can be used, can be recommended, or can be successful in understanding Krsna.......Krsna is not an incarnation of God but is the original Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. ........" [To follow pure Krishna Consciousness, the bona fide way needs to be followed of Universal Guru Form, all other ways to follow Krishna Consciousness are a waste of time as the regulative principles would not have been followed and realistically charity for bogus following should not be given with the guidance of diksha initiating spiritual master not being followed based on His Universal Guru Form. The Universal Guru Form is not a 'double' for Srila Prabhupada but Srila Prabhupada himself.] TEXT 55 PURPORT "......Therefore the pure form of devotional service is described in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu as follows: anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam anukulyena krsnanu silanam bhaktir uttama. In this verse Srila Rupa Gosvami clearly states that if anyone wants to execute unalloyed devotional service, he must be freed from all kinds of material contamination. He must be freed from the association of persons who are addicted to fruitive activities and mental speculation. When, freed from such unwanted association and from the contamination of material desires, one favorably cultivates knowledge of Krsna, that is called pure devotional service. ...... Lord Jesus Christ. He was crucified by the nondevotees, but he sacrificed his life for spreading God consciousness. Of course, it would be superficial to understand that he was killed. ......." [Accordingly in our context those people following the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada should disassociate themselves from fruitive and contaminated people for their Krishna Consciousness. Thus devotees inside and outside ISKCON and BBT should separate themselves from the coup disciples and their supporters and take action to remove them. They should not allow the poisoning of the spiritually present Universal Guru Form to occur. Srila Prabhupada is permanently and eternally alive.] ...... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. |
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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 5 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ....../Cont'd Finding 4: The Restaurant The May 28 1977 had not been decoded or understood for quite a few years by the majority of the devotees until the revolutionary study of Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management 108 (2003). This attempt is to simplify these revolutionary essays directly to the May 28 1977 Conversation through the allegory of Restaurant because of the 5 levels or standards that are deployed in the hospitality business by the well-known branding tiers - 5 Star, 4 Star, 3 Star, 2 Star and 1 Star. The purpose of this essay to show the 'system' that is 'stemming/originating' from the Panca-Tattva, the Advent of Krishna in 5 Forms and Truths told in Japa Meditation (2002) and Knowledge Management (2003) by way of the hospitality industry. The author would like to say at this point that the conversion of personality and groups into Restaurants tiers cannot be defined into levels of quality but the author would like it to be seen as a quantitative differentiation only. The qualitative differentiation should be seen on basis of the above mentioned essays and Gio Vani (2001). The author thinks that this allegory arose when some years ago when there was meeting with someone in the hospitality business that was near a Hare Krishna Temple after the author had visited the same temple and it was a way for Krishna to tell the author. It can be philosophized that that these quantitative differences are important for understanding the parts seen in the above mentioned essays, that they are needed to experience, that they are needed for meaning or understanding, that they are needed for comparison, that they are needed for servicescape, that they are needed for structure or organisation, that they are external or apparent, that they are needed for realizations, that they are needed for understanding principles, that the allegory is spiritualized through dovetailing. The Complete Talk, May 28 1977 Conversation Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]no longer with us [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]. We [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] shall recommend some of you [Restaurant 4 star]. After this is settled up I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]shall recommend some of you [Restaurant 4 star]to act as officiating acarya(s) [Restaurant 3 star]. Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? [Restaurant 3 star] Prabhupada: Ritvik [Restaurant 3 star]. Yes. Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person [Restaurant 3 star]who gives the initiation and the... [Restaurant 2 star] Prabhupada: He's [Restaurant 3 star] guru [Restaurant 3 star]. He's [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] guru [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]. Satsvarupa: But he [Restaurant 3 star]does it on your [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]behalf. Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]presence one [Restaurant 3 star]should not become guru [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator], so on my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]behalf. On my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]order, amara ajnaya guru hana, (he [Restaurant 3 star] is) (be) actually guru [Restaurant 3 star]. But by my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]order. Satsvarupa: So they [Restaurant 2 star] may also be considered your [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]disciples [Restaurant 2/3/4 star]. Prabhupada: Yes, they [Restaurant 2 star]are disciples [Restaurant 2/3/4 star], (but) (why) consider.....who [Restaurant 2/3/4 star] Tamala Krsna: No, he's [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]asking that these rtvik-acaryas [Restaurant 3 star], they're [Restaurant 3 star] officiating, giving diksa. Their [Restaurant 3 star]... The people [Restaurant 2 star]who they [Restaurant 3 star]give diksa to, whose [Restaurant 1/2/3/4/5 star]disciple [Restaurant 2 star] are they [Restaurant 2 star]? Prabhupada: They [Restaurant 2 star] are his [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star]. Tamala Krsna: They're[Restaurant 2 star] his [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star]. Prabhupada: Who [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] is initiating.....(his) [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator [God]] (he is) grand-disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star]. Satsvarupa: Yes. Tamala Krsna: That's clear. Satsvarupa: Then we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]have a question concer... Prabhupada: When I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator [God]]order you [Restaurant 4 star & Grand Restaurant 4 star [God]] become guru he [Restaurant 3 star & Grand Restaurant 3 star [God]]becomes regular guru. That's all. He [Restaurant 2 star & Grand Restaurant 2 star [God]] becomes disciple [Restaurant 2 star & Grand Restaurant 2 star [God]] of my [Restaurant 1 star & Grand Restaurant 1 star [God]] disciple [Restaurant 2/3/4 star & Grand Restaurant 2/3/4 star [God]]. ( That's it). (Just see) [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator [God]]. Satsvarupa: Next we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]have a question about the BBT[Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]. At present, no translation work [Restaurant No name]is to be published without your [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]seeing and approving it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works [Restaurant No name]in the future that you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]may not see? For example, we've [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]heard suggested that the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would the system be to insure the parampara [Restaurant No name] if you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]would not personally see these translations? Prabhupada: That you [Restaurant 4 star [Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star]]have to examine expertly. Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the works [Restaurant No name]which you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]have already translated can be published by the BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]. If there is some worthy translation (Restaurant No name]of a bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator] could publish it. (Restaurant No name]. Prabhupada: That we [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator and Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and all other 4/3/2 star disciples]are doing, just like Hindi. We [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator and Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and all other 4/3/2 star disciples]are doing other languages. If it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]is properly translated, it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]can be... Tamala Krsna: Even if it's [Restaurant No name]a work [Restaurant No name] which you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]have not yet translated yourself [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]. Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator]translation, another person [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]translating into Hindi or other languages, we [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator and Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star and all other 4/3/2 star disciples]are publishing. Similarly, if somebody [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]has translated properly, it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator -translated]can be published. But amongst our [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] disciples [Restaurant 2/3/4 star], I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]don't think there are many who [ Restaurant 2/3/4 star]can translate properly. Ramesvara: None. We're [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]not eager to publish anything which is not perfect [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA -translated], because you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]have already set the highest standard for the BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]. The name BBT [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] means the highest standard right now in the world [Restaurant No name/2/3/4 star]. Prabhupada: That (Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] is good answer. Kirtanananda: Therefore, Srila Prabhupada [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA], we [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]think that you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]cannot leave us [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]very soon. Prabhupada: I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]don't want. But if I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]am obliged [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star], what can I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]do? Kirtanananda: If you [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]don't want, Krsna [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]will not want. Prabhupada: A realized soul, [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]must be. Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D [Restaurant No name]will not help. My [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]purports are liked by people [Restaurant 4/3/2 star]because it is presented as practical experience. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] (aside It is within the mouth. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA & Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]] Bhavananda: I'm [Restaurant No name as yet-though know 3 star]sorry. Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA], (laughter) that it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]must enter into the mouth. [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]] Then it [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]will act. That kind of instrument [Restaurant No name] not required [Restaurant No name]. It [Restaurant No name]must remain three miles off. Our [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]translation must be documents [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]. They [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]are not ordinary ...[Restaurant No name] One [Restaurant 2 star]cannot become unless one [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]is very [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]realized. It is not A-B-C-D [Restaurant No name]translation. Bhagavan: It's [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]not a matter of scholarship. Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]]says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One [Restaurant 2 star]can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu [Grand Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & Grand 5/4/3/2/1 stars Grand-creator & THE UNIVERSAL FORM [God]], he [Restaurant 2 star]can become guru [Restaurant 3 star]. Or one [Restaurant 2 star]who understands his guru's [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creators & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA]order, the same parampara, [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creators & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] he [Restaurant 2 star]can become guru [Restaurant 3 star]. And therefore I [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] shall select some [Restaurant Not named as yet-for Restaurant 3 star] of you [Restaurant 4 star]. (hums) Satsvarupa: That's all [Restaurant 5 star & 5 star-in-1 star & 5/4/3/2/1 stars creator & UNIVERSAL GURU FORM OF PRABHUPADA] the questions. HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Finding 5: Our Relationship with Krishna: In the Subset of Amara Ajnaya Order Returning to the Restaurant example in the previous Finding, the quantitative units / stars of 1,2,3,4 and 5 are "external" and at the same time can also be inside or "internal" within each of the specific quantitative stars i.e. 4 star external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1 star. 3 star external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1 star. . 2 star external can have internally 5,4,3,2,1 star. You may ask what about 5 and 1 star? The internal 5,4,3,2,1 star are not present because they are Srila Prabhupada's fixed position that no one else can trespass into. These internal components are there for (1) understanding the external stars of 5 star, 4 star, 3 star, 2 star and 1 star and also are the (2) syllabus for development within the parameters described in above mentioned essays for the past/present/future disciples of Srila Prabhupada - the constituents within the external stars, namely that of 4,3,2 star and movement within these external stars is "variable" except for external 4 star when it is possible to remain "fixed" optimally but is "private" and known only to the individual constituent and Krishna and Guru and not known to anyone else though it is possible to estimate or measure (see the 2 mentioned essays - Knowledge management 108, 2003 and Japa Meditation, 2002) to proceed within external stars, namely 3 and 2 star. Please note that the constituent of the external stars 5 and 1 star is "fixed and permanent" and is none other than His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and his transcendental identity. Thus by working within this "instrument" everyone can achieve and spiritually develop. ...... Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. |
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"amongst our disciples" PRABHUPADA-THE UNIVERSAL GURU FORM IN AMARA
AJNAYA ORDER (2004) http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 PART 5 Author: Harry E. Bowl email: Press Release for the Media, Hare Krishna devotees and interest parties. Please distribute to your family and friends. ....../Cont'd The Futu Palanquin moving images of Srila Prabhupada where Srila Prabhupada is sitting on the palanquin and the people carrying him are not his disciples showed the allegory that the some of the disciples would start a coup against Srila Prabhupada to take over his position, go against his wishes, desire, will and Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Order. To have the Universal Guru Form requires carriage of Srila Prabhupada murti and his books and recordings as symbol by a Ritvik disciple and a non-ritvik disciple for preaching purposes and this would be for all ritviks. Due to their weight, it suggests that only physically fit Ritvik disciples and non-ritvik disciples would be able to preach the Universal Guru Form of Srila Prabhupada and this would be the only bona fide way. Training would be required and the correct Srila Prabhupada murti made in a precious metal, e.g. gold would perhaps be required. The Ritvik would perhaps only become a Ritvik based on their preaching ability that would in turn allow them to get a Srila Prabhupada murti of special metal and the books and recordings. Having various preaching parties like this travelling around the world would be good for Krishna Consciousness. Any questions from media or publics about this would be answered based on the Universal Guru Form. Conclusion: There is Symbolism of 11. The Universal Form is Chapter 11, there were 11 original Ritviks chosen, ISKCON and BBT have gone through Chapter 11 Bankruptcy. The evil of suppressing the Universal Guru Form needs punishing without any doubt. The coup disciples or their supporters should not be allowed to dictate the Hare Krishna Movement. They have to be banned from the Movement and criminally punished under the law of the land. New names for groups in the Hare Krishna Movement need to be created. It is not now Ritvik and Non-ritviks. With this study, it is now Universal Guru Formers verses the Non-Universal Guru Formers. Yes, the Ritvik initiation system is part of the Universal Guru Formers manifesto but it is only part of a list. Comparing of essay with Gio Vani, Japa Mediatation and KnowledgeManagement 108 shows that there are new insights. Universal Guru Form, new additional insights to May 28 1977 Conversation and Spiritual development within the Universal Guru Form. The entry or trespassing into another space that belongs to Srila Prabhupada, with abbreviation of Universal Form being UF, close to the abbreviation of UFO, it perhaps reflects involvement of NASA also in the physically only disappearance of Srila Prabhupada, especially because Srila Prabhupada does not believe that anyone landed on the moon. Having four letters in their abbreviation with Srila Prabhupada saying A-B-C-D, four letters, again symbolises their invovement. Appendices: Appendix 1: The Use of the Word "Mouth" by His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, in the May 28 1977 Conversation Example 1 "Sri Caitanya-caritamrta -- Adi-lila, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Chapter 17 The Pastimes of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu in His Youth TEXT 10 TEXT sacike prema-dana, tabe advaita-milana advaita paila visvarupa-darasana SYNONYMS sacike--unto mother Sacidevi; prema-dana--giving love of Godhead; tabe--thereafter; advaita--with Advaita Acarya; milana--meeting; advaita--Advaita Acarya; paila--received; visva-rupa--of the universal form of the Lord; darasana--vision. TRANSLATION Thereafter the Lord delivered love of Krsna to His mother, Sacidevi, nullifying her offense at the feet of Advaita Acarya. Thus there was a meeting with Advaita Acarya, who later had a vision of the Lord's universal form. PURPORT One day Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was sitting on the throne of Visnu in the house of Srivasa Prabhu, and in a mood of His own He said, "My mother has offended the lotus feet of Advaita Acarya. Unless she nullifies this offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava, it will not be possible for her to achieve love of Krsna." Hearing this, all the devotees went to bring Advaita Acarya there. While coming to see the Lord, Advaita Acarya was glorifying the characteristics of mother Sacidevi, and thus upon arriving He fell down on the ground in ecstasy. Then, under the instruction of Lord Caitanya, Sacidevi took advantage of this situation to touch Advaita Acarya's lotus feet. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was very much pleased by His mother's action, and He said, "Now My mother's offense at the lotus feet of Advaita Acarya has been rectified, and she may have love of Krsna without difficulty." By this example Lord Caitanya taught everyone that although one may be very much advanced in Krsna consciousness, if one offends the lotus feet of a Vaisnava his advancement will not bear fruit. We should therefore be very much conscious not to offend a Vaisnava. Caitanya-caritamrta has described such an offense as follows: yadi vaisnava-aparadha uthe hati mata upade va chinde, tara sukhi' yaya pata (Cc. Madhya 19.156) As a mad elephant may trample all the plants in a garden, so by committing one offense at the lotus feet of a Vaisnava one may spoil all the devotional service he has accumulated in his life. After this incident, one day Advaita Acarya Prabhu requested Caitanya Mahaprabhu to display the universal form He had very kindly shown Arjuna. Lord Caitanya agreed to this proposal, and Advaita Prabhu was fortunate enough to see the universal form of the Lord." Example 2 KRISHNA BOOK, His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Chapter 8: "Visions of the Universal Form Another day, when Krsna and Balarama were playing with Their friends, all the boys joined Balarama and told mother Yasoda that Krsna had eaten clay. On hearing this, mother Yasoda caught hold of Krsna's hand and said, "My dear Krsna, why have You eaten earth in a solitary place? Just see, all Your friends including Balarama are complaining about You." Being afraid of His mother, Krsna replied, "My dear mother, all these boys, including My elder brother Balarama, are speaking lies against Me. I have never eaten clay. My elder brother Balarama, while playing with Me today, became angry, and therefore He has joined with the other boys to complain against Me. They have all combined together to complain so you will be angry and chastise Me. If you think they are truthful, then you can look within My mouth to see whether I have taken clay or not." His mother replied, "All right, if You have actually not taken any clay, then just open Your mouth. I shall see." When the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna was so ordered by His mother, He immediately opened His mouth just like an ordinary boy. Then mother Yasoda saw within that mouth the complete opulence of creation. She saw the entire outer space in all directions, mountains, islands, oceans, seas, planets, air, fire, moon and stars. Along with the moon and the stars she also saw the entire elements, water, sky, the extensive ethereal existence along with the total ego and the products of the senses and the controller of the senses, all the demigods, the objects of the senses like sound, smell, etc., and the three qualities of material nature. She also could perceive that within His mouth were all living entities, eternal time, material nature, spiritual nature, activity, consciousness and different forms of the whole creation. Yasoda could find within the mouth of her child everything necessary for cosmic manifestation. She also saw, within His mouth, herself taking Krsna on her lap and having Him sucking her breast. Upon seeing all this, she became struck with awe and began to wonder whether she were dreaming or actually seeing something extraordinary. She concluded that she was either dreaming or seeing the play of the illusory energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. She thought that she had become mad, mentally deranged, to see all those wonderful things. Then she thought, "It may be cosmic mystic power attained by my child, and therefore I am perplexed by such visions within His mouth. Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead under whose energy bodily self and bodily possessions are conceived." She then said, "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto Him, under whose illusory energy I am thinking that Nanda Maharaja is my husband and Krsna is my son, that all the properties of Nanda Maharaja belong to me and that all the cowherd men and women are my subjects. All this misconception is due to the illusory energy of the Supreme Lord. So let me pray to Him that He may protect me always." While mother Yasoda was thinking in this high philosophical way, Lord Krsna again expanded His internal energy just to bewilder her with maternal affection. Immediately mother Yasoda forgot all philosophical speculation and accepted Krsna as her own child. She took Him on her lap and became overwhelmed with maternal affection. She thus began to think, "Krsna is not understandable to the masses through the gross process of knowledge, but He can be received through the Upanisads and the Vedanta or mystic Yoga system and Sankhya philosophy." Then she began to think of the Supreme Personality of Godhead as her own begotten child." Example 3 KRSNA BOOK, His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Chapter 7: "Salvation of Trnavarta After this incident, when Yasoda once was nursing her child and patting Him with great affection, there streamed a profuse supply of milk from her breast, and when she opened the mouth of the child with her fingers, she suddenly saw the universal manifestation within His mouth. She saw within the mouth of Krsna the whole sky, including the luminaries, stars in all directions, the sun, moon, fire, air, seas, islands, mountains, rivers, forests, and all other movable and immovable entities. Upon seeing this, mother Yasoda's heart began to throb, and she murmured within herself, "How wonderful this is!" She could not express anything, but simply closed her eyes. She was absorbed in wonderful thoughts. Krsna's showing the universal form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even when lying down on the lap of His mother, proves that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is always the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whether He is manifested as a child on the lap of His mother or as a charioteer on the Battlefield of Kuruksetra." Appendix 2: Original Complete May 28 1977 Conversation Satsvarupa: By the votes of the present GBC. Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted. Prabhupada: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acarya(s). Tamala Krsna: Is that called rtvik-acarya? Prabhupada: Ritvik. Yes. Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the... Prabhupada: He's guru. He's guru. Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf. Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf. On my order, amara ajnaya guru hana, (he is) (be) actually guru. But by my order. Satsvarupa: So they may also be considered your disciples. Prabhupada: Yes, they are disciples, (but) (why) consider.....who Tamala Krsna: No, he's asking that these rtvik-acaryas, they're officiating, giving diksa. Their... The people who they give diksa to, whose disciple are they? Prabhupada: They are his disciple. Tamala Krsna: They're his disciple. Prabhupada: Who is initiating.....(his) (he is) grand-disciple. Satsvarupa: Yes. Tamala Krsna: That's clear. Satsvarupa: Then we have a question concer... Prabhupada: When I order you become guru he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. ( That's it). (Just see). Satsvarupa: Next we have a question about the BBT. At present, no translation work is to be published without your seeing and approving it. So the question is, is there any system for publishing works in the future that you may not see? For example, we've heard suggested that the Padma Purana or the Sat-Sandarbha may be translated. But what would the system be to insure the parampara if you would not personally see these translations? Prabhupada: That you have to examine expertly. Tamala Krsna: In other words, there's no set principle that only the works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT could publish it. Prabhupada: That we are doing, just like Hindi. We are doing other languages. If it is properly translated, it can be... Tamala Krsna: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated yourself. Prabhupada: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation, another person translating into Hindi or other languages, we are publishing. Similarly, if somebody has translated properly, it can be published. But amongst our disciples, I don't think there are many who can translate properly. Ramesvara: None. We're not eager to publish anything which is not perfect, because you have already set the highest standard for the BBT. The name BBT means the highest standard right now in the world. Prabhupada: That is good answer. Kirtanananda: Therefore, Srila Prabhupada, we think that you cannot leave us very soon. Prabhupada: I don't want. But if I am obliged, what can I do? Kirtanananda: If you don't want, Krsna will not want. Prabhupada: A realized soul, must be. Otherwise, simply by imitating A-B-C-D will not help. My purports are liked by people because it is presented as practical experience. (aside It is within the mouth. Bhavananda: I'm sorry. Prabhupada: Such a nice instrument, (laughter) that it must enter into the mouth. Then it will act. That kind of instrument not required. It must remain three miles off. Our translation must be documents. They are not ordinary... One cannot become unless one is very realized. It is not A-B-C-D translation. Bhagavan: It's not a matter of scholarship. Prabhupada: And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana. One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same parampara, he can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums) Satsvarupa: That's all the questions. May 28 1977 HDG A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada Bibliography: Vani, Gio (2001) "Amara Ajnaya Verse Study: The Solution to ISKCON's Problems and Fulfilling of 500 Year Old Predictions" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/a2vs Meditation, Japa (2002) "Srila Prabhupada's Order of Panca-Tattva Amara Ajnaya Verse (SPOPTAAV)" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/order108 Management 108, Knowledge (2003) Advent - "I Don't Want [to Leave!]: [I,] A Realized Soul Must Be [I in Amara Ajnaya!]" Available at: http://www.geocities.com/intmarketdev Copyright 2004 http://www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 & Srila Prabhupada Internet Tour. Quotes and appendices belong to their copyright holders. |
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It seem very odd that this has only come to light now - it has been what? 28 years!
Very odd, indeed. |
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marc wrote:
It seem very odd that this has only come to light now - it has been what? 28 years! Very odd, indeed. Download the Opera browser, click www.Opera.com and then the reading on Google Groups improves, that is if you want to read it only on Google Groups. Click www.geocities.com/oneninesixfive1965 and watch the Universal Guru Form (UGF) and also the different fonts and tones. |
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