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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
CBSNewYork.com
2-7-4 Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not allowed on any commercial airlines. Are they terrorists or violent criminals or something else? CBS 2's Cheryl Fiandaca investigates. The airport counter: This is as far as Rebecca Gordon and Janet Adams say they are allowed to go at San Francisco International Airport. The last time they checked in for a flight to Boston to visit Gordon's 80-year-old father, an airline employee called the police. "She came back and said you turned up on the FBI no-fly list. We have called the San Francisco police. We were shocked, really shocked," recalled Adams. "We were detained. We were definitely detained. I couldn't even get a drink of water," Gordon remembered. So why would two women in their 50's, U.S. citizens, San Francisco homeowners and long-time peace activists with no criminal records be on a federal watch list with suspected terrorists? That's just one of the questions the couple wanted answers to. An ACLU attorney tells CBS 2 the government won't even tell them if Gordon and Adams are on the list. Last April, the ACLU of Northern California filed suit against the Transportation Security Administration and the FBI on behalf of the pair and demanded answers to basic questions, including how many people are on the secret list, who is on the it, how do you get on it and how can you get off it. This what they got back: hundreds of pages of blacked out text that give them no answers to any of their questions. "The government has blacked out the information about what criteria they use to place people on these lists. So we don't know how someone gets on the list. How they can get off the list if they're on it incorrectly, we don't know. If the government monitors the list, we don't know if any of this makes us any safer. What we do know is hundreds, maybe thousands, of passengers are being routinely hassled, innocent passengers, because of these lists," ACLU attorney Jayashri Srikantiah told CBS 2. Civil rights activists don't dispute the governments right to keep a watchlist, but they do have a problem with who's on it and why. "It's very scary that our government is keeping a list. That's scary," Adams said. Scary and all too real. The government has admitted it has a secret no-fly list of people who are not allowed to fly. And also has a secret selected list of people who are to be singled out, detained, and questioned. Both are stored in airline databases and are accessed at check in. The lists allegedly contain thousands of names of passengers who are to be stopped before boarding commercial flights. The list isn't new. It has been in existence since about 1990 but was expanded after the September 11th attacks. "It's a no-fly list, it's a list of names gathered through intelligence and law enforcement of individuals who are either known terrorists or have links to known terrorists," TSA spokesperson Mark Hatfied told Fiandaca. The list is now alleged to include not only suspected terrorists and those believed to be a threat to aviation security but civil rights activists say it also targets people based on their political views. A list that is thought to include members of the Green Party, a Jesuit priest who is a peace activist and two civil rights attorneys. In Gordon and Adams' case, the ACLU believes the couple may have been targeted for their work on War Times, a free bilingual newspaper that has been critical of the war and the Bush administration's policies on terrorism. It's very scary that two people who pose no danger, who are publishing something, which last time I looked we were allowed to do, are being detained at the airport and having the police called and they won't tell us why," Adams said. And as of today, Gordon and Adams still don't have any answers from the government but have a court hearing set for April 9th. This controversy isn't likely to go away anytime soon, since the government is planning on implementing a color code system this summer to track passengers and that list too is expected to be secret. .......... http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/loc...036144559.html |
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
"jake" wrote in message ... CBSNewYork.com 2-7-4 Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not allowed on any commercial airlines. My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have access to it. -Dave |
#3
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
In Gordon and Adams' case, the ACLU believes the couple may have
been targeted for their work on War Times, a free bilingual newspaper that has been critical of the war and the Bush administration's policies on terrorism. Of course this is the reason. The Bu****es are using 9/11 as an excuse to do anything they damn well please. For those who disagree, see http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_ho.../22521283.html This is a story on how Ashcroft is using the Patriot Act as a excuse to crack down on a strip club. Whether you agree or not with public nudity, you cannot possibly tie it to terrorism. Casey |
#4
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
"Anon" wrote in message s.com... "jake" wrote in message ... CBSNewYork.com 2-7-4 Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not allowed on any commercial airlines. My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have access to it. -Dave The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a frequent flyer for the last 35 years. I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly 2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged" & I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage. Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny the list exists. |
#5
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know
if you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have access to it. -Dave The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a frequent flyer for the last 35 years. I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly 2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged" & I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage. Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny the list exists. Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag were removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly undress and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer until recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm upgraded to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave |
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
"Jim Davis Sr" wrote in message ... "Anon" wrote in message s.com... "jake" wrote in message ... CBSNewYork.com 2-7-4 Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? NEW YORK (CBS) -- The war on terror casts a wide net and has so far prevented a second September 11th. But is that net too wide? CBS 2 has learned of a top secret government list of Americans who are not allowed on any commercial airlines. My initial reaction was, if it's so top secret, how would you even know if you are on it? Must not be too top secret if airline ticket clerks have access to it. -Dave The government actualy believes that we are that stupid. I've been a frequent flyer for the last 35 years. I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly 2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged" & I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage. Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny the list exists. Good luck, Jim. This is outrageous. Last time I looked, there is still a 5th Amendment, which provides that you cannot be deprived of property rights (in this case, the contractual right to board an aircraft) without due process of law. Please keep us posted. |
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
"Jim Davis Sr" wrote in message ... "Anon" wrote in message s.com... "jake" wrote in message ... CBSNewYork.com 2-7-4 Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List? Think of the great opportunities for expanding such a list. People who are delinquent on their taxes, student loan payments, other obligations to the government could be detained for a "discussion" as to why they are in default. This could result in getting lots of additional monies owed to the government paid on a more timely basis. All it would take would be a few business travelers being held for "consultation" before word began to spread that one had better pay off legitimate debts. PN |
#8
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
"Anon" wrote in message s.com... (snip) Interesting. A couple weeks ago, I flew cross-country. I was inspected BOTH ways. A very thorough inspection where all the contents of my bag were removed, and all the contents of other containers were removed. (shaving kit, computer bag, etc.). On top of that, I was required to mostly undress and subjected to a thorough inspection with one of those hand-held wand thingies. It took me over a half hour to check in for my flights, and that's not counting waiting in line. I have not been a frequent flyer until recently. Now my job requires it. I'll bet after I post this I'm upgraded to "no fly" status because I dared to write about it. -Dave Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways (like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem to get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a drivers license checking in.) aem sends.... |
#9
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
Nah, they go mainly by how you act at the archway. Going through sideways
(like I sometimes do out of habit due to narrow archway at my office) gets you an automatic second inspection, as does shoes beeping, even if you offered to take them off. The Federal ID I carry, and the security clearances that go with it, appear to have little effect anymore. I seem to get the 'bend over and cough' routine about every 3rd flight or so. In the pre-TSA days, the federal ID would almost get me a wave-thru. (never asked for special treatment, of course, but I would show that instead of a drivers license checking in.) aem sends.... Can't be. I was picked for the extra inspections at the ticket counter, long before I got anywhere near the archways. -Dave |
#10
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Are You On Uncle Sam's No Fly List?
I'm on their "Watch List" which is a step down from the No Fly List. I fly
2 to 4 times a week. Each time at the ticket counter, my name is "Flagged" & I then have to go through additional screening, as well as my luggage. Delays & missed flights are the result. I'm now involved with the class action lawsuit through the ACLU. But the best part is, that they still deny the list exists. I'm sure there's no chance I'm going to be allowed to get on a commercial airline, nor survive the attempt if I ever try. I'm supposed to carry with me a device which in operation counts down seconds (that is, it looks and acts like a bomb timer). Along with it, I have a clearly dangerous device whose purpose is to induce bleeding: a lot more dangerous than the verboten electric razors and tiny pocket knives. (It's called a blood glucose meter, and associated lancing device for getting a drop of blood to test.) I am lucky I do not have to carry with me syringes and vials of what looks like a biological weapon (but is actually insulin). Should the issue ever come to court, I'm sure that the court will rule that the security officer had reasonable cause to shoot me, and if the issue is not rendered moot by the fact that I am dead, that I was not breaking the law attempting to bring the device on board an airplane. That won't be much comfort to my surviving relatives. Gordon L. Burditt |
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