More False Information From TSA

I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against lists of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way plane
ticket paid for with cash.

Anyone that's interested in this should read
http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlib...ACT_NOTICE.pdf

Interesting stuff.

Matt



wrote in message
...


http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,63958,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5

A top homeland security official told Congress that five major
domestic airlines turned over sensitive passenger data to the agency
or its contractors in 2002 and 2003, contradicting numerous statements
by airline and government officials and confirming some of the worst
fears of privacy advocates.

Delta, Continental, America West, JetBlue and Frontier Airlines
secretly turned over sensitive passenger data to Transportation
Security Administration contractors in the spring and summer of 2002,
according to the sworn statement of acting TSA chief David Stone. In
addition, two of the four largest airline reservation centers, Galileo
International and Sabre, also gave sensitive passenger information,
including home phone numbers, credit card numbers and health data,
without disclosing the transfers to travelers or asking their
permission.

"Matt" wrote in message
...
I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against lists
of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way plane
ticket paid for with cash.

I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

Here's the part that doesn't make sense to me: "(T)wo of the four largest
airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave
sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card
numbers and health data".

Health data? Perhaps it's just me, but in the hundreds of flights I've
booked over the years I've never had to submit "health data" to the airline.

wrote in message
...



http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,63958,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5

A top homeland security official told Congress that five major
domestic airlines turned over sensitive passenger data to the agency
or its contractors in 2002 and 2003, contradicting numerous statements
by airline and government officials and confirming some of the worst
fears of privacy advocates.

Delta, Continental, America West, JetBlue and Frontier Airlines
secretly turned over sensitive passenger data to Transportation
Security Administration contractors in the spring and summer of 2002,
according to the sworn statement of acting TSA chief David Stone. In
addition, two of the four largest airline reservation centers, Galileo
International and Sabre, also gave sensitive passenger information,
including home phone numbers, credit card numbers and health data,
without disclosing the transfers to travelers or asking their
permission.

"Black Helicopter Pilot"
wrote in message ...
"Matt" wrote in message
...
I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against
lists
of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way
plane
ticket paid for with cash.

I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and
went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

Here's the part that doesn't make sense to me: "(T)wo of the four largest
airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave
sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card
numbers and health data".

Health data? Perhaps it's just me, but in the hundreds of flights I've
booked over the years I've never had to submit "health data" to the
airline.


and you don't think 'they' can get any data about you unless you give it
directly ???

"Black Helicopter Pilot"
wrote in message ...
"Matt" wrote in message
...
I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against
lists
of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way
plane
ticket paid for with cash.

I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and
went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

Here's the part that doesn't make sense to me: "(T)wo of the four largest
airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave
sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card
numbers and health data".

Health data? Perhaps it's just me, but in the hundreds of flights I've
booked over the years I've never had to submit "health data" to the
airline.


My guess is that health data would only be applicable to passengers that had
some kind of special health issue, like they needed to bring oxygen on the
flight, or required wheelchair assistance. But ya, that does seem odd.

Matt

"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message
...

"Black Helicopter Pilot"
wrote in message ...
"Matt" wrote in message
...
I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against
lists
of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some
additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way
plane
ticket paid for with cash.

I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and
went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

Here's the part that doesn't make sense to me: "(T)wo of the four
largest
airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave
sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit
card
numbers and health data".

Health data? Perhaps it's just me, but in the hundreds of flights I've
booked over the years I've never had to submit "health data" to the
airline.


and you don't think 'they' can get any data about you unless you give it
directly ???


Are you suggesting the airlines are somehow getting ahold of our medical
records? Boy you really are paranoid.

Matt

"Black Helicopter Pilot" wrote in message ...
"Matt" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,63958,00.html?tw=wn_story_top5

A top homeland security official told Congress that five major
domestic airlines turned over sensitive passenger data to the agency
or its contractors in 2002 and 2003, contradicting numerous statements
by airline and government officials and confirming some of the worst
fears of privacy advocates.

Delta, Continental, America West, JetBlue and Frontier Airlines
secretly turned over sensitive passenger data to Transportation
Security Administration contractors in the spring and summer of 2002,
according to the sworn statement of acting TSA chief David Stone. In
addition, two of the four largest airline reservation centers, Galileo
International and Sabre, also gave sensitive passenger information,
including home phone numbers, credit card numbers and health data,
without disclosing the transfers to travelers or asking their
permission.


I don't see what the big deal is. Checking passenger names against lists
of
known terrorists seems like a no brainer to me. Ya, sure if your name
happens to be Sheikh Kahlid Mohammed you might be in for some additional
screening when you try to travel from Iran to New York on a one way plane
ticket paid for with cash.

It's a bit more complicated than that. They don't do exact name matches.
They have various software search algorythims which use a variety of
criteria. One of the more common apparently just removes all the vowels
from names and does a comparison. It has to do with finding people even
though the names are entered with the exact same spelling. (Mine is a
common occurance of this. "O'Connell" gets entered as oconnell, O'connell
oConnell, O_Connell, connell, connelly, etc. I even had an Avis guy
ask me "how many K's in that?".)


I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

I've taken to telling people lately that if they don't think that
the government has enough power over individuals, they really need to
go talk to Richard Jewel.


Here's the part that doesn't make sense to me: "(T)wo of the four largest
airline reservation centers, Galileo International and Sabre, also gave
sensitive passenger information, including home phone numbers, credit card
numbers and health data".

Health data? Perhaps it's just me, but in the hundreds of flights I've
booked over the years I've never had to submit "health data" to the airline.

If you think a minute, it doesn't take long to realize that for SOME
passengers, the airlines have health related data. (dietary requirements,
mobility issues, potentially even allergies etc.).

How does any of this matter? Mostly because of the tendency of government
agencies to abuse this kind of information. Simple example, Bin Laden is
supposedly known to have a kidney problem. So at some point the government
starts looking for folks related to treating, or being treated for, kidney
troubles. Next thing you know, a diabetic isn't getting on a plane because
he "looks like" someone with kidney trouble and he also paid cash for his
one way ticket and that raised his "threat level" to fuscia and the airline
wouldn't let him on as a "potential security risk". Of course, they won't
tell him the components that label him as a "potential security risk"
(because that's sensitive information) and so other airlines won't let
him fly because he has been labels "fuscia" by Northsouth Airlines.
Problem is that he does sales of medical products and travels alot by
plane (the large amount of medical supplies in his luggage was what
first tipped off the airline. He explained he was both a salesmen and
a diabetic which is how it got into his profile in the first place.
The airline put it there in an attempt to help him avoid problems in
the future). So now his job is in jeopardy and TSA is stonewalling him
because it's close to an election cycle and they don't want to publicly
admit that they are pestering some honest citizen. Pretty soon the FBI
gets involved and they decide that he should be "pressured to tell what
he knows" so they leak it to the press that he is a "person of interest".


Don't think it can happen? Like I say, go talk to Richard Jewel.

"me" wrote in message
om...
"Black Helicopter Pilot"
wrote in message ...
...
snip
I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and
went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

I've taken to telling people lately that if they don't think that
the government has enough power over individuals, they really need to
go talk to Richard Jewel.

Richard Jewel has nothing to do with the TSA or Department of Homeland
Security. Richard Jewel was also cleared, no thanks to the news media who
publicly lynched the guy because he fit their template for a white
supremacist.

The government knows:

- Where you live
- The names of your family members
- Where you were born
- Your birthdate
- The square footage of your abode
- How many toilets in your abode
- How much you make each year
- Your SS number
- How much cash you have in your bank account
- How much cash and stock you have in your equity accounts
- Your stock transactions
- Your photograph and fingerprints
- Where you work

No doubt they already know much more. And you're worried about appearing on
a list of millions who fly to Orlando? Big deal.

"me" wrote in message
om...
How does any of this matter? Mostly because of the tendency of
government
agencies to abuse this kind of information.

Curious that your main problem is that government agencies tend to abuse
this kind of information yet
the only examples you can provide of such abuse are a bunch of fictional
stories and the case of Richard Jewel, which
was little more than a honest mistake. You can't enforce laws without some
innocents getting caught up in the system.

Nevertheless I agree with you that some controls should be in place to avoid
having innocent people placed on no-fly lists.

Matt


..

"Matt" wrote in message ...
"me" wrote in message
om...
How does any of this matter? Mostly because of the tendency of
government
agencies to abuse this kind of information.

Curious that your main problem is that government agencies tend to abuse
this kind of information yet
the only examples you can provide of such abuse are a bunch of fictional
stories and the case of Richard Jewel,

I could have provided more, the poor guy fingered in the Athrax investigation
comes to mind.

which
was little more than a honest mistake.

Um. No. It was a case of the FBI trying to pressure someone.

You can't enforce laws without some
innocents getting caught up in the system.

Nevertheless I agree with you that some controls should be in place to avoid
having innocent people placed on no-fly lists.


That's actually the real trick. It's why warrants are supposed to be
gotten. It's why they are suppose to charge you within a period of time.
Right to speedy trial and all that. Lists that have consequences, and
no controls, are dangerous.

"Black Helicopter Pilot" wrote in message ...
"me" wrote in message
om...
"Black Helicopter Pilot"
wrote in message ...
...
snip
I don't see the big deal, either. The government already knows far more
stuff about me, and I could care less if they knew I got on a plane and
went
to Orlando. I'm glad they're doing it.

I've taken to telling people lately that if they don't think that
the government has enough power over individuals, they really need to
go talk to Richard Jewel.

Richard Jewel has nothing to do with the TSA or Department of Homeland
Security.

No, it's called the FBI which works with the TSA and the DHS.

Richard Jewel was also cleared,

After months during which his life was trashed.

no thanks to the news media who
publicly lynched the guy because he fit their template for a white
supremacist.

His problems started because he fit the "profile" of the FBI for
a guy who would make a bomb and then pretend to "discover" it to become
a hero.


The government knows:

- Where you live
- The names of your family members
- Where you were born
- Your birthdate
- The square footage of your abode
- How many toilets in your abode
- How much you make each year
- Your SS number
- How much cash you have in your bank account
- How much cash and stock you have in your equity accounts
- Your stock transactions
- Your photograph and fingerprints
- Where you work

No doubt they already know much more. And you're worried about appearing on
a list of millions who fly to Orlando? Big deal.

Actually, I'm more worried about being confused with some other person
with a similar name. It'a already happening to people, I don't really
wanna become one of them.